OU vs N. Texas

[sybarite]

Obviously a very disappointing loss. Some knee jerk reactions.

1. Can we please slow down the Maddie Manning lovefest? She's not done anything to justify the hype that she gets on this board. I hope she does but let's back off a bit.
2. Derica doesn't bring much to the table if her shot isn't falling. She's like Peyton Light. Or
last night Peyton Zero. Gioya is a much better compliment to Peyton. I'd start Lanesia if
Gioya is out this year.
3. Sherri's got to start using more of her post players together. 2 posts at a time.
4. Terrible game from Gabbi. She's off to a cold start. Maybe Ton'a needs to start instead.

I think we may elevate the Maddie Manning lovefest. She seems to be the only one who can drive.

I don't know what to take away from the first two games. I think Sherri is trying to get a feel for who can do what, as individuals and as groups. I think she forced the ball into Kay Kay trying to get Kay Kay to adjust, seeing if she could and would. She wants to have that inside out attack, and it depends on the inside having some effectiveness. Kay Kay put us behind 10-2 almost by herself.

I am concerned about LaNesia's tendency to do something right before doing three things wrong. I'm not sure what Sherri is trying to set up. Maybe, we'll see in the next few games. But, from the first two games, I would lean to a 4-1 switching off with a 3-2 with Shaya coming in along with Maddie at times, switching Maddie to a three. I think Shaya can guard the four. I'm not sure that anyone has emerged yet to take the two, assuming that Peyton is the three. I might use Penzo more and see what she can do.

I still think Sherri is feeling this out. I think she has Peyton, Maddie, and Gabbi (despite a really horrible start). I think the other two positions are looking up for grabs. She has always loved Kay Kay. Can this continue? Will she sit Kay Kay for a game like she did last year?

She is still exploring. But, you could see her anger last night when she wouldn't even look at players coming off the court. She didn't expect them to be that bad, even while trying to learn the pieces.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Obviously a very disappointing loss. Some knee jerk reactions.

1. Can we please slow down the Maddie Manning lovefest? She's not done anything to justify the hype that she gets on this board. I hope she does but let's back off a bit.
2. Derica doesn't bring much to the table if her shot isn't falling. She's like Peyton Light. Or
last night Peyton Zero. Gioya is a much better compliment to Peyton. I'd start Lanesia if
Gioya is out this year.
3. Sherri's got to start using more of her post players together. 2 posts at a time.
4. Terrible game from Gabbi. She's off to a cold start. Maybe Ton'a needs to start instead.

Good post!

I have been saying the same thing about Maddie for a long time. If she is a good basketball player, we haven't seen it yet.

Derica is okay to bring off the bench in certain situations but she is not who you want to count on to be a productive starter.

L. Williams is a better defender than Derica but mistakes plaque her game.

Penzo hasn't shown that she's a D-1 player yet. A lack of speed, quickness, and ability to score is hard to overcome. She made an all star team?

Shaya struggles at this level.

It sucks that we have one starter injured and we can't beat a bad team that has 3 starters foul out.

 

[atlantasooner]

syb,

the facts and stats don't support your level of hype for Maddie. I'm with you in hoping she becomes a star.
7 points last night. Stars take over. Stars score and dominate. Peyton is by a wide margin the best wing on this team. It's not even close.
Drob was a star. Whitney was a star.
Maddie right now is not a star.

 

[sybarite]

syb,

the facts and stats don't support your level of hype for Maddie. I'm with you in hoping she becomes a star.
7 points last night. Stars take over. Stars score and dominate. Peyton is by a wide margin the best wing on this team. It's not even close.
Drob was a star. Whitney was a star.
Maddie right now is not a star.

Are you looking for the right things? It appears, as I said elsewhere, that Sherri is trying to find out what players can do. I think she was more interested in the long-term that she let the short-term result in a loss last night. I think Sherri knows she has: Peyton, Maddie, Gabbi.

Gabbi is off to a horrible start in every way. She is effort. But, sometimes, it looks like she is a HS player.

If she wanted Maddie to take over, why would she have been on the bench so much? Maddie did her job when in the game. She didn't rebound, but that was largely because they had her guarding a guard. She was twenty feet from the basket. She was the only one who seemed to be able to get a pass where it belonged, and she was even credited with turnovers twice when Vivi and Gabbi turned before they caught it. I figure that Sherri knows that Maddie could score another ten. She is the only player we have that can create right now.

I think Sherri was trying to force a part of the game: the post game. I don't think she has been satisfied. Last night, she was absolutely furious. I couldn't tell whether she was furious with one player or with the team. But, she was beyond talking at one time out. Last year, about a month later than this, she sat Kay Kay down for a game. She feels that she needs Kay Kay.

I also think she was trying to figure out who could play. Derica gave her one good game. LaNesia and T'Ona have made some bad mistakes, often just throwing passes in the wind with no real chance of reception. I wonder if that is why Penzo got so many minutes in the last game. She didn't make as many bad mistakes.

I think she's trying to figure out her five through nine players. We may miss Gioya, but we had some breakdowns late in the season last year with Gioya. That's not really an excuse. This is more than a loss of a player. This is bad execution of the system that they have been taught. I think she was convinced two weeks ago that they had it. Right now, I think Sherri is going back to the drawing board.

 

[jerry]

syb,

the facts and stats don't support your level of hype for Maddie. I'm with you in hoping she becomes a star.
7 points last night. Stars take over. Stars score and dominate. Peyton is by a wide margin the best wing on this team. It's not even close.
Drob was a star. Whitney was a star.
Maddie right now is not a star.

Agree.

 

[atlantasooner]

syb,
i'm looking for "it". And if Maddie is a star why is she on the bench so much last night.
I haven't seen "it" for a full game from Maddie yet.
Baker Mayfield has it. Shepard has it. Perine has it.
Buddy developed it. Hollis developed it. Blake was swimming in it.
Drob had it day one. Whitney had it day one.
Gioya had it for about 8 games to start conference play.

Today for instance, Christian James flashed "it" today. Wow.
Buford flashed it at times.
That's where Maddie is due to two knee injuries. Jury is out.

 

[sybarite]

syb,
i'm looking for "it". And if Maddie is a star why is she on the bench so much last night.
I haven't seen "it" for a full game from Maddie yet.
Baker Mayfield has it. Shepard has it. Perine has it.
Buddy developed it. Hollis developed it. Blake was swimming in it.
Drob had it day one. Whitney had it day one.
Gioya had it for about 8 games to start conference play.

Today for instance, Christian James flashed "it" today. Wow.
Buford flashed it at times.
That's where Maddie is due to two knee injuries. Jury is out.

Some of us have seen "it." Sherri has seen "it," which is why she said that Maddie would be one of the top players in the Big Twelve this year.

She played 28 minutes last night. She wasn't benched. But, she's not one of those who Sherri is looking at. Sherri is looking for someone other than Peyton, Maddie, and Gabbi. Even after two horrible performances, she isn't looking for a replacement for Gabbi.

When everyone else had the ball stripped every time they went to the rim, Maddie made it. She missed some layups, but I was pleased because she had a nice soft touch on those layups. Each nearly went in. She was the only one last night who actually could pass. Others were throwing the ball randomly. Maddie was harassing them at midcourt. Unfortunately, nobody else had the reactions to go after balls that she tipped. She even saved some turnovers on passes from the post that were not meant to go to her.

Maddie is the only player that we have who can get above the crowd. You had better hope that you are wrong, because we rise no higher than Maddie.

I think Sherri is right.

 

[SoonerNorm]

syb,
i'm looking for "it". And if Maddie is a star why is she on the bench so much last night.
I haven't seen "it" for a full game from Maddie yet.
Baker Mayfield has it. Shepard has it. Perine has it.
Buddy developed it. Hollis developed it. Blake was swimming in it.
Drob had it day one. Whitney had it day one.
Gioya had it for about 8 games to start conference play.

Today for instance, Christian James flashed "it" today. Wow.
Buford flashed it at times.
That's where Maddie is due to two knee injuries. Jury is out.

Yep, Buddy had 30 pts and 8 rebs tonight. That's definitely a guard who has "it"!! Maddie has a long way to go to be a dominant player. IF she has just one dominant game, I will be thrilled to give her props.

 

[sybarite]

Buddy is in what, his third year as a starter, with an offense designed to give him the chance to score. He does.

She will, but not in an offense that is designed for her to score thirty.

 

[atlantasooner]

syb,
Now you are just making excuses.
7 points = 28 minutes against UNT??
And you think Manning is elite? Gimme a break.
There's potential and production.
Manning is still stuck in the potential zone.

I'll be the first to admit Manning is at that high level if she hits it.
She's just not right now. She's not clearing the bar.

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

Yep, Buddy had 30 pts and 8 rebs tonight. That's definitely a guard who has "it"!! Maddie has a long way to go to be a dominant player. IF she has just one dominant game, I will be thrilled to give her props.

If you guys are expecting Maddie to be as good as Buddy this year you are living in a dream world. It is about as unlikely as me making All American again.

Even making that comparison means you are not evaluating things in anything resembling a reasonable fashion. Why make such a foolish comparison. The best women's player in the Big-12 will not be better than Buddy. These are women. Buddy is a guy. DUMB!!!

 

[sybarite]

syb,
Now you are just making excuses.
7 points = 28 minutes against UNT??
And you think Manning is elite? Gimme a break.
There's potential and production.
Manning is still stuck in the potential zone.

I'll be the first to admit Manning is at that high level if she hits it.
She's just not right now. She's not clearing the bar.

She is doing about what she is expected to do in this situation---by Sherri, not by you.

 

[atlantasooner]

syb,
fine then she's a role player.

end of debate.

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

One of the few times that I think Sherri Coale was outcoached was last night. We didn't come in prepared to play, and then didn't adjust. Vivi should have played more, EJ should have played, and Kaykay should have played less.
Teams CAN come out flat and then gain aggressiveness and energy, but it needs someone to help get them started. I thought during the game that coach Coale was waiting to see if any player would provide that leadership, and when they did not, it was too late for coaches to get them going.
Pulling our center and putting Shaya in late in the game with score tied, to play defense was a defensive mistake. They had been running the pick and roll at the free throw line and killing us with it, and putting Kellog in at center put her in a role she was not familiar with. When we failed to communicate on pick and roll, we got no help from center- wide open lay up, North Texas lead, game over. I yelled that at the time. Just thought it was a poor showing all around.
And I had and still have high hopes for this team, but 2 years ago we had talent and couldn't get it together. I do not want a repeat of that.
Disgusted

I like some of the things Vivi does too. But she is totally unable to play much more than she does due to conditioning. If you want her to play more then press for her to lose 20 lbs and get in top shape. You need to attend the games and watch what happens after she has played 2-3 minutes. She is really tired.

Plus last night she was not able to rebound against the posts for NT. Only 3 rebounds in 15 minutes of play. KK had 11 in 24 minutes.

Our best bet inside is to rotate the inside players every few minutes. That appears to be what is going on. Plus as I mentioned in another post, KK was having to direct the offense some of the time - while trying to play inside. We needed one of the 4 outside players to step up and take over that job.

And obviously KK needs to start hitting those shots. But for heavens sake, she was 2nd in the Big-12 in shooting percentage last year. You have to believe they will start falling. They better if we want to have a successful year.

And as a final exclamation point. They MUST stop throwing the ball right at the feet of teammates when passing!! I can't guarantee much, but I can absolutely guarantee you that that technique is never going to work well.

 

[j2d2]

I'm disappointed in the absence of leadership. Sherri said the team need someone to give a spark. No one is a bigger fan of Maddie than I am and I'm disappointed in her, too. We need someone to step up and take charge when it's needed, get in peoples' faces if needed or just take the team on her back and hustle like crazy. ( The best example of that I ever saw was Chelsi Welchlas a freshman against a directional school when everyone had a torn acl).

 

[soonermike22]

I like some of the things Vivi does too. But she is totally unable to play much more than she does due to conditioning. If you want her to play more then press for her to lose 20 lbs and get in top shape. You need to attend the games and watch what happens after she has played 2-3 minutes. She is really tired.

Plus last night she was not able to rebound against the posts for NT. Only 3 rebounds in 15 minutes of play. KK had 11 in 24 minutes.

Our best bet inside is to rotate the inside players every few minutes. That appears to be what is going on. Plus as I mentioned in another post, KK was having to direct the offense some of the time - while trying to play inside. We needed one of the 4 outside players to step up and take over that job.

And obviously KK needs to start hitting those shots. But for heavens sake, she was 2nd in the Big-12 in shooting percentage last year. You have to believe they will start falling. They better if we want to have a successful year.

And as a final exclamation point. They MUST stop throwing the ball right at the feet of teammates when passing!! I can't guarantee much, but I can absolutely guarantee you that that technique is never going to work well.

Yes I was at the game, and saw both Vivi and Kaykay struggling with the fast pace in the game. I would have given EJ half or more of Kaykays playing time after she turned the ball over 3 of the first 4 possessions. And if you are having the night where you are unable to hit more than 20% of your shots from zero to 2 feet-more bench time and then when you play you are both fresher and more eager. Vivi could have had those minutes around time outs and quarter breaks to be fresher with a little more playing time. That was my point-nothing bad about the kids that are trying their best, just not achieving it last night.

 

[SoonerNorm]

If you guys are expecting Maddie to be as good as Buddy this year you are living in a dream world. It is about as unlikely as me making All American again.

Even making that comparison means you are not evaluating things in anything resembling a reasonable fashion. Why make such a foolish comparison. The best women's player in the Big-12 will not be better than Buddy. These are women. Buddy is a guy. DUMB!!!

There are women who have scored 30 pts and grabbed 8 rebs.

 

[sybarite]

With three missed layups and a turnover in the first four plays of the game, OU ended up behind 7-0. That was hardly due to fatigue..

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

There are women who have scored 30 pts and grabbed 8 rebs.

Of course.

But none of them have made the men's All American team. Maddie will not be better than Buddy, so I suggest we drop asking that of her.

By the way, I am also a bit disappointed in the fact she has not been able to take over a game ------ yet.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Of course.

But none of them have made the men's All American team. Maddie will not be better than Buddy, so I suggest we drop asking that of her.

By the way, I am also a bit disappointed in the fact she has not been able to take over a game ------ yet.

No one is asking her to beat Buddy in a game of one on one. But, if she's as good as some think she is, shouldn't we be able to see at least ONE game in which she takes over a game? That's something she has never done in a Sooner uniform. Heck, a few games of 15 pts and 5 rebs would be really nice!