Porter to.........Villanova???

Is every coach looking for an extension before he or she will say I'm staying put?
 
WichitaSooner said:
Is there a way to end up with a coach who ends up with negative NCAA wins in four years?
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Maybe. Lol

2022 - OU finished 7th of 10 in Big12 (isu, ksu, wvu behind OU)
2023 - OU finished 9th of 10 in Big12 (taco tech behind OU)
2024 - OU finished 9th of 14 in Big12 (ksu, cincy, ucf, osu, wvu behind OU)
2025 - OU finished 14th of 16 in SEC (lsu, SC behind OU)

2025 OU would have finished 8th in the Big12.

Never in the top half of a conference.

NIL is not the main reason we have been bottom feeders. It doesn't help, but you'd expect some coaching wins instead of late game coaching lapses and poor roster construction.
 
IndySooner said:
Right. Because that’s the only measurement.
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Nah I prefer guys who do super great against Q-4. We have the best in the business!

Medved and his NIL treasure chest looking good so far against Maryland. Would love to have that guy coaching us (a guy I’ve been mentioning for about 14 months).
 
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SoonerDutch said:
2016-2017, even LK (unburdened by the mediocrity of sophomore Buddy Hield as Wichita would point out) can’t win them all.

Been kind of the norm to finish bottom half of conference since the FF year.
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Were talking about hiring worse coachs, not a worse season. Are you suggesting that pm is better at ou than Kruger??
 
hoopsaustin said:
We’re talking about hiring worse coachs, not a worse season. Are you suggesting that pm is better at ou than Kruger??
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Based on the list showing conference standings, I assumed that was the question at hand. My bad.

Lol, no even if PM never had to overcome the mediocrity of sophomore Buddy (Wichita’s words, not mine), LK was definitely better haha no question.
 
IndySooner said:
Or, you know, give Porter what he needs and not try to go out and replace him with someone who may or may not be better.
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You seem to base much your opinion of PM on people you know that know him in Chicago. Have you ever considered that he earned enough cred for life off of one F4 run with Loyola that he'll always be seen that way there regardless of what he does elsewhere?

If you're telling me "the grass ain't always greener" about a coach that has been here four years, had a losing season, missed three tourneys, and got bounced in the first round of the one he made then I just categorically do not believe you. I refuse to be okay with us sitting around and operating out of fear that we could maybe do worse.

And the fact of the matter is, Moser knows the limitations about working at OU and still hasn't figured out how to navigate them. His portal evals have been horrid. His roster management/retention has been abysmal. He's even struggled to keep assistant coaches around. We have had no consistency from year to year on what we are trying to be as a team. If he hadn't lucked into Fears, this team likely has a losing record.

And to act like he hasn't had talent is criminal. Last year's team was probably the most talented team we'd had since the F4 run with Buddy, and that's including the TY team. And he MISSED THE TOURNAMENT. I don't care how many bid stealers there were, that team should have been nowhere close to the bubble. At the end of the day, when it comes to a coach that has gone 26-46 (36%) in conference during his time at OU and is all time 161-203 (44%) in conference which lines up how he competes against his peers, I believe OU is and can do better than that.
 
cbertus6 said:
You seem to base much your opinion of PM on people you know that know him in Chicago. Have you ever considered that he earned enough cred for life off of one F4 run with Loyola that he'll always be seen that way there regardless of what he does elsewhere?

If you're telling me "the grass ain't always greener" about a coach that has been here four years, had a losing season, missed three tourneys, and got bounced in the first round of the one he made then I just categorically do not believe you. I refuse to be okay with us sitting around and operating out of fear that we could maybe do worse.

And the fact of the matter is, Moser knows the limitations about working at OU and still hasn't figured out how to navigate them. His portal evals have been horrid. His roster management/retention has been abysmal. He's even struggled to keep assistant coaches around. We have had no consistency from year to year on what we are trying to be as a team. If he hadn't lucked into Fears, this team likely has a losing record.

And to act like he hasn't had talent is criminal. Last year's team was probably the most talented team we'd had since the F4 run with Buddy, and that's including the TY team. And he MISSED THE TOURNAMENT. I don't care how many bid stealers there were, that team should have been nowhere close to the bubble. At the end of the day, when it comes to a coach that has gone 26-46 (36%) in conference during his time at OU and is all time 161-203 (44%) in conference which lines up how he competes against his peers, I believe OU is and can do better than that.
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You say his portal evaluations have been horrid. I disagree. Moore was a great evaluation. Wague was a good evaluation. The guards this year, while not great, were good additions. And he didn't LUCK into Fears. Fears could have gone many places. He chose to go to OU with Porter.

His first four years weren't great. They weren't. But he SHOULD have made the tournament 2 of the 4 and in the first year, he OVERACHIEVED to be the first team out of the tournament. I place the majority of the blame for roster turnover on NIL and the lack of focus by our administration on NIL. And I think I'm right.

Most of my opinion on Porter is based on people I talk to close to the situation at OU. I add to that my knowledge of people who have been around him/connected to him here in Chicago. People can disagree on opinions, but the proof will be in the pudding. If he leaves, we will end up with a Crutchfield-like hire. That's NOT a step in the right direction. You don't move on from a coach to go backward. That's dumb.

The roster this year should have had Oweh. It should have had Pedulla. It should have had Garrison. And we STILL would have ended up with Fears because Porter keeps a roster spot "just in case" every single year. (He did that at Loyola as well.) We didn't have that roster because our fanbase and our administration don't support basketball. Period.

If Joe C. would have fundraised for a new arena 20 years ago like Kelvin asked, like Capel, Kruger and Moser were promised, then our ENTIRE focus could be on building NIL. Instead, we're decades behind. That's not Porter's fault anymore than it was Kelvin, Jeff or Lon's fault.
 
IndySooner said:
You say his portal evaluations have been horrid. I disagree. Moore was a great evaluation. Wague was a good evaluation. The guards this year, while not great, were good additions. And he didn't LUCK into Fears. Fears could have gone many places. He chose to go to OU with Porter.

His first four years weren't great. They weren't. But he SHOULD have made the tournament 2 of the 4 and in the first year, he OVERACHIEVED to be the first team out of the tournament. I place the majority of the blame for roster turnover on NIL and the lack of focus by our administration on NIL. And I think I'm right.

Most of my opinion on Porter is based on people I talk to close to the situation at OU. I add to that my knowledge of people who have been around him/connected to him here in Chicago. People can disagree on opinions, but the proof will be in the pudding. If he leaves, we will end up with a Crutchfield-like hire. That's NOT a step in the right direction. You don't move on from a coach to go backward. That's dumb.

The roster this year should have had Oweh. It should have had Pedulla. It should have had Garrison. And we STILL would have ended up with Fears because Porter keeps a roster spot "just in case" every single year. (He did that at Loyola as well.) We didn't have that roster because our fanbase and our administration don't support basketball. Period.

If Joe C. would have fundraised for a new arena 20 years ago like Kelvin asked, like Capel, Kruger and Moser were promised, then our ENTIRE focus could be on building NIL. Instead, we're decades behind. That's not Porter's fault anymore than it was Kelvin, Jeff or Lon's fault.
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In other words, your sources are people who are predisposed to like him and speak highly of him.

Re: Oweh, what reason is there to think he would have been this version of Oweh if he stayed? Moser had him for two full years, and by the end of year two, he was no better than the day he arrived on campus. In fact, the end of last season was the worst basketball Oweh has ever produced. And I also think it's crazy to just assume Oweh would have stayed if only the fans and admins support basketball more. He was offered a chance to play for a blueblood program (arguably, THE blueblood program), for a better coach, and in a system that is a far better fit for his game. After having not gotten better under Moser, why would Oweh have stayed, even if the money was equal? I'd guess he would have only stayed if our offer far exceeded UK's.

As for some of your other points -- do you really think we lost players like Bam and Mason, and even Cooper, due to NIL? And while you and others want to continue to think every reputable reporter is lying, Uzan didn't leave for the highest bidder. He left because he wanted to not just make the tourney, but win in the tourney, and because he wanted to be coached harder and developed better. Maybe you are right about guys like Pedulla and Garrison, although I laugh picturing Porter on the sideline when Pedulla takes bad shots or makes careless decisions. And Garrison -- likely would have been like Mo, i.e., sitting on the bench behind an overmatched Godwin.

Lastly, while the other coaches you mentioned may have also dealt with frustrating issues concerning Joe and the arena and other concerns, they all (including Capel) managed to take OU on at least one deep run, and a couple of them had them in the tourney as often as all but a few programs in the country.
 
Coach said we’d know today whether moser was leaving or staying. I’d assume he’s staying since it’s quiet.

We need to bump the NIL and get this program on track. If it’s moser, let’s give him all the help we can muster.
 
IndySooner said:
You say his portal evaluations have been horrid. I disagree. Moore was a great evaluation. Wague was a good evaluation. The guards this year, while not great, were good additions. And he didn't LUCK into Fears. Fears could have gone many places. He chose to go to OU with Porter.

His first four years weren't great. They weren't. But he SHOULD have made the tournament 2 of the 4 and in the first year, he OVERACHIEVED to be the first team out of the tournament. I place the majority of the blame for roster turnover on NIL and the lack of focus by our administration on NIL. And I think I'm right.

Most of my opinion on Porter is based on people I talk to close to the situation at OU. I add to that my knowledge of people who have been around him/connected to him here in Chicago. People can disagree on opinions, but the proof will be in the pudding. If he leaves, we will end up with a Crutchfield-like hire. That's NOT a step in the right direction. You don't move on from a coach to go backward. That's dumb.

The roster this year should have had Oweh. It should have had Pedulla. It should have had Garrison. And we STILL would have ended up with Fears because Porter keeps a roster spot "just in case" every single year. (He did that at Loyola as well.) We didn't have that roster because our fanbase and our administration don't support basketball. Period.

If Joe C. would have fundraised for a new arena 20 years ago like Kelvin asked, like Capel, Kruger and Moser were promised, then our ENTIRE focus could be on building NIL. Instead, we're decades behind. That's not Porter's fault anymore than it was Kelvin, Jeff or Lon's fault.
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Kobe Elvis, Glenn Taylor, Jordan Goldwire, Marvin Johnson, Joe Bamisile were all guys brought in to be difference makers that were basically non-factors. Moore was a good eval, as was Soares. But can you really point to many other transfers that were actually positive additions in four years? No? Point proven.

Then you throw in retaining guys like Jacolb Cole, Luke Northweather, and Yaya Keita multiple years when they should not have been makes his roster management horrible. We've lead the P4 in amount of players transferring out in the time that Moser has been the head coach at OU. TEvans has done that math to prove that. So his ability to keep players around has been terrible as well. Look at all the players we've had that have gone elsewhere and performed well. Uzan, Oweh, Alston Mason, Joe Bamisile, Elijah Harkless. Hell even Jacob Groves went and performed pretty well for UVA after being nothing but average at OU.

And to Wichita's point, you are getting a lot of information about Moser from people that are self-inclined to like him based on his infamous runs at Loyola or the fact that they know him and like him as a person here at OU. Those are not unbiased or even necessarily the most knowledgeable sources. And acting like a Crutchfield hire is our ceiling is laughable. People were saying the same thing when LK retired and we hired Moser who was one of the hottest names on the market at the time.

Maybe the roster this year would've had those players with better investments from donors. I don't know one way or the other. What I do know is that however that worked out, Moser completed mismanaged the hand he was dealt in the portal and absolutely DID luck into Fears. We hardly recruited Fears at all and he was committed to play at Illinois. It wasn't until the 11th hour when almost every team's rosters were set that Fears decided to reclassify. Had Illinois had room for him in this class, he'd be there. The amount of teams that even had room for him at that time were minimal. Maybe Moser's reputation helped with convincing him to come to Norman. It doesn't mean there wasn't a ton of luck that went into him even being available at all.

You aren't going to catch me defending how poorly Joe C has supported the men's bball program over the years. I'm on record saying we should be doing more there. But I also believe that there are guys out there capable of doing more with the current resources than Moser has. I'll ask again, what makes you think we cannot do better than a guy who has a career in-conference win percentage over 21 years of 44%? Who has a 36% win percentage in conference at OU? Or are you going to continue choosing to listen to people that are predisposed to liking him and to point the finger at everything other than the person in charge the last four seasons?
 
WichitaSooner said:
In other words, your sources are people who are predisposed to like him and speak highly of him.

Re: Oweh, what reason is there to think he would have been this version of Oweh if he stayed? Moser had him for two full years, and by the end of year two, he was no better than the day he arrived on campus. In fact, the end of last season was the worst basketball Oweh has ever produced. And I also think it's crazy to just assume Oweh would have stayed if only the fans and admins support basketball more. He was offered a chance to play for a blueblood program (arguably, THE blueblood program), for a better coach, and in a system that is a far better fit for his game. After having not gotten better under Moser, why would Oweh have stayed, even if the money was equal? I'd guess he would have only stayed if our offer far exceeded UK's.

As for some of your other points -- do you really think we lost players like Bam and Mason, and even Cooper, due to NIL? And while you and others want to continue to think every reputable reporter is lying, Uzan didn't leave for the highest bidder. He left because he wanted to not just make the tourney, but win in the tourney, and because he wanted to be coached harder and developed better. Maybe you are right about guys like Pedulla and Garrison, although I laugh picturing Porter on the sideline when Pedulla takes bad shots or makes careless decisions. And Garrison -- likely would have been like Mo, i.e., sitting on the bench behind an overmatched Godwin.

Lastly, while the other coaches you mentioned may have also dealt with frustrating issues concerning Joe and the arena and other concerns, they all (including Capel) managed to take OU on at least one deep run, and a couple of them had them in the tourney as often as all but a few programs in the country.
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Would love to get your definitive take, Capel better than Moser? No need for a qualification, yes or no would suffice!
 
WichitaSooner said:
In other words, your sources are people who are predisposed to like him and speak highly of him.

Re: Oweh, what reason is there to think he would have been this version of Oweh if he stayed? Moser had him for two full years, and by the end of year two, he was no better than the day he arrived on campus. In fact, the end of last season was the worst basketball Oweh has ever produced. And I also think it's crazy to just assume Oweh would have stayed if only the fans and admins support basketball more. He was offered a chance to play for a blueblood program (arguably, THE blueblood program), for a better coach, and in a system that is a far better fit for his game. After having not gotten better under Moser, why would Oweh have stayed, even if the money was equal? I'd guess he would have only stayed if our offer far exceeded UK's.

As for some of your other points -- do you really think we lost players like Bam and Mason, and even Cooper, due to NIL? And while you and others want to continue to think every reputable reporter is lying, Uzan didn't leave for the highest bidder. He left because he wanted to not just make the tourney, but win in the tourney, and because he wanted to be coached harder and developed better. Maybe you are right about guys like Pedulla and Garrison, although I laugh picturing Porter on the sideline when Pedulla takes bad shots or makes careless decisions. And Garrison -- likely would have been like Mo, i.e., sitting on the bench behind an overmatched Godwin.

Lastly, while the other coaches you mentioned may have also dealt with frustrating issues concerning Joe and the arena and other concerns, they all (including Capel) managed to take OU on at least one deep run, and a couple of them had them in the tourney as often as all but a few programs in the country.
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Bam, Mason and Cooper are NOT SEC level players. Period. They've had good runs at mid-majors.

And how would my sources close to the OU basketball program be predisposed to like him and speak highly of him? The same people couldn't stand Jeff Capel back in the day. They are the people telling me that unless things change from a support perspective nothing is changing from a results perspective.
 
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