WichitaSooner
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Is there a way to end up with a coach who ends up with negative NCAA wins in four years?It's very easy to do worse.
Is there a way to end up with a coach who ends up with negative NCAA wins in four years?It's very easy to do worse.
Right. Because that’s the only measurement.Is there a way to end up with a coach who ends up with negative NCAA wins in four years?
Is there a way to end up with a coach who ends up with negative NCAA wins in four years?
Nah I prefer guys who do super great against Q-4. We have the best in the business!Right. Because that’s the only measurement.
When's the last time we have?It's very easy to do worse.
2016-2017, even LK (unburdened by the mediocrity of sophomore Buddy Hield as Wichita would point out) can’t win them all.When's the last time we have?
Jeff CapelWhen's the last time we have?
Thus far, Capel outdid pm at ou. Fact.Jeff Capel
Were talking about hiring worse coachs, not a worse season. Are you suggesting that pm is better at ou than Kruger??2016-2017, even LK (unburdened by the mediocrity of sophomore Buddy Hield as Wichita would point out) can’t win them all.
Been kind of the norm to finish bottom half of conference since the FF year.
Based on the list showing conference standings, I assumed that was the question at hand. My bad.We’re talking about hiring worse coachs, not a worse season. Are you suggesting that pm is better at ou than Kruger??
You seem to base much your opinion of PM on people you know that know him in Chicago. Have you ever considered that he earned enough cred for life off of one F4 run with Loyola that he'll always be seen that way there regardless of what he does elsewhere?Or, you know, give Porter what he needs and not try to go out and replace him with someone who may or may not be better.
You say his portal evaluations have been horrid. I disagree. Moore was a great evaluation. Wague was a good evaluation. The guards this year, while not great, were good additions. And he didn't LUCK into Fears. Fears could have gone many places. He chose to go to OU with Porter.You seem to base much your opinion of PM on people you know that know him in Chicago. Have you ever considered that he earned enough cred for life off of one F4 run with Loyola that he'll always be seen that way there regardless of what he does elsewhere?
If you're telling me "the grass ain't always greener" about a coach that has been here four years, had a losing season, missed three tourneys, and got bounced in the first round of the one he made then I just categorically do not believe you. I refuse to be okay with us sitting around and operating out of fear that we could maybe do worse.
And the fact of the matter is, Moser knows the limitations about working at OU and still hasn't figured out how to navigate them. His portal evals have been horrid. His roster management/retention has been abysmal. He's even struggled to keep assistant coaches around. We have had no consistency from year to year on what we are trying to be as a team. If he hadn't lucked into Fears, this team likely has a losing record.
And to act like he hasn't had talent is criminal. Last year's team was probably the most talented team we'd had since the F4 run with Buddy, and that's including the TY team. And he MISSED THE TOURNAMENT. I don't care how many bid stealers there were, that team should have been nowhere close to the bubble. At the end of the day, when it comes to a coach that has gone 26-46 (36%) in conference during his time at OU and is all time 161-203 (44%) in conference which lines up how he competes against his peers, I believe OU is and can do better than that.
In other words, your sources are people who are predisposed to like him and speak highly of him.You say his portal evaluations have been horrid. I disagree. Moore was a great evaluation. Wague was a good evaluation. The guards this year, while not great, were good additions. And he didn't LUCK into Fears. Fears could have gone many places. He chose to go to OU with Porter.
His first four years weren't great. They weren't. But he SHOULD have made the tournament 2 of the 4 and in the first year, he OVERACHIEVED to be the first team out of the tournament. I place the majority of the blame for roster turnover on NIL and the lack of focus by our administration on NIL. And I think I'm right.
Most of my opinion on Porter is based on people I talk to close to the situation at OU. I add to that my knowledge of people who have been around him/connected to him here in Chicago. People can disagree on opinions, but the proof will be in the pudding. If he leaves, we will end up with a Crutchfield-like hire. That's NOT a step in the right direction. You don't move on from a coach to go backward. That's dumb.
The roster this year should have had Oweh. It should have had Pedulla. It should have had Garrison. And we STILL would have ended up with Fears because Porter keeps a roster spot "just in case" every single year. (He did that at Loyola as well.) We didn't have that roster because our fanbase and our administration don't support basketball. Period.
If Joe C. would have fundraised for a new arena 20 years ago like Kelvin asked, like Capel, Kruger and Moser were promised, then our ENTIRE focus could be on building NIL. Instead, we're decades behind. That's not Porter's fault anymore than it was Kelvin, Jeff or Lon's fault.
Kobe Elvis, Glenn Taylor, Jordan Goldwire, Marvin Johnson, Joe Bamisile were all guys brought in to be difference makers that were basically non-factors. Moore was a good eval, as was Soares. But can you really point to many other transfers that were actually positive additions in four years? No? Point proven.You say his portal evaluations have been horrid. I disagree. Moore was a great evaluation. Wague was a good evaluation. The guards this year, while not great, were good additions. And he didn't LUCK into Fears. Fears could have gone many places. He chose to go to OU with Porter.
His first four years weren't great. They weren't. But he SHOULD have made the tournament 2 of the 4 and in the first year, he OVERACHIEVED to be the first team out of the tournament. I place the majority of the blame for roster turnover on NIL and the lack of focus by our administration on NIL. And I think I'm right.
Most of my opinion on Porter is based on people I talk to close to the situation at OU. I add to that my knowledge of people who have been around him/connected to him here in Chicago. People can disagree on opinions, but the proof will be in the pudding. If he leaves, we will end up with a Crutchfield-like hire. That's NOT a step in the right direction. You don't move on from a coach to go backward. That's dumb.
The roster this year should have had Oweh. It should have had Pedulla. It should have had Garrison. And we STILL would have ended up with Fears because Porter keeps a roster spot "just in case" every single year. (He did that at Loyola as well.) We didn't have that roster because our fanbase and our administration don't support basketball. Period.
If Joe C. would have fundraised for a new arena 20 years ago like Kelvin asked, like Capel, Kruger and Moser were promised, then our ENTIRE focus could be on building NIL. Instead, we're decades behind. That's not Porter's fault anymore than it was Kelvin, Jeff or Lon's fault.
Would love to get your definitive take, Capel better than Moser? No need for a qualification, yes or no would suffice!In other words, your sources are people who are predisposed to like him and speak highly of him.
Re: Oweh, what reason is there to think he would have been this version of Oweh if he stayed? Moser had him for two full years, and by the end of year two, he was no better than the day he arrived on campus. In fact, the end of last season was the worst basketball Oweh has ever produced. And I also think it's crazy to just assume Oweh would have stayed if only the fans and admins support basketball more. He was offered a chance to play for a blueblood program (arguably, THE blueblood program), for a better coach, and in a system that is a far better fit for his game. After having not gotten better under Moser, why would Oweh have stayed, even if the money was equal? I'd guess he would have only stayed if our offer far exceeded UK's.
As for some of your other points -- do you really think we lost players like Bam and Mason, and even Cooper, due to NIL? And while you and others want to continue to think every reputable reporter is lying, Uzan didn't leave for the highest bidder. He left because he wanted to not just make the tourney, but win in the tourney, and because he wanted to be coached harder and developed better. Maybe you are right about guys like Pedulla and Garrison, although I laugh picturing Porter on the sideline when Pedulla takes bad shots or makes careless decisions. And Garrison -- likely would have been like Mo, i.e., sitting on the bench behind an overmatched Godwin.
Lastly, while the other coaches you mentioned may have also dealt with frustrating issues concerning Joe and the arena and other concerns, they all (including Capel) managed to take OU on at least one deep run, and a couple of them had them in the tourney as often as all but a few programs in the country.
Emphatically yes in results.Would love to get your definitive take, Capel better than Moser? No need for a qualification, yes or no would suffice!
Bam, Mason and Cooper are NOT SEC level players. Period. They've had good runs at mid-majors.In other words, your sources are people who are predisposed to like him and speak highly of him.
Re: Oweh, what reason is there to think he would have been this version of Oweh if he stayed? Moser had him for two full years, and by the end of year two, he was no better than the day he arrived on campus. In fact, the end of last season was the worst basketball Oweh has ever produced. And I also think it's crazy to just assume Oweh would have stayed if only the fans and admins support basketball more. He was offered a chance to play for a blueblood program (arguably, THE blueblood program), for a better coach, and in a system that is a far better fit for his game. After having not gotten better under Moser, why would Oweh have stayed, even if the money was equal? I'd guess he would have only stayed if our offer far exceeded UK's.
As for some of your other points -- do you really think we lost players like Bam and Mason, and even Cooper, due to NIL? And while you and others want to continue to think every reputable reporter is lying, Uzan didn't leave for the highest bidder. He left because he wanted to not just make the tourney, but win in the tourney, and because he wanted to be coached harder and developed better. Maybe you are right about guys like Pedulla and Garrison, although I laugh picturing Porter on the sideline when Pedulla takes bad shots or makes careless decisions. And Garrison -- likely would have been like Mo, i.e., sitting on the bench behind an overmatched Godwin.
Lastly, while the other coaches you mentioned may have also dealt with frustrating issues concerning Joe and the arena and other concerns, they all (including Capel) managed to take OU on at least one deep run, and a couple of them had them in the tourney as often as all but a few programs in the country.
Bold take but props to your conviction.Emphatically yes in results.