Rank the Big 12 Frontcourts

[thebigabd]

Primary rotation only...

1.) Kansas- Cole Aldrich, Marcus Morris, Markieff Morris, Jeff Withey, Thomas Robinson
2.) Texas A&M- Bryan Davis, Junior Elonu, David Loubeau, James Blascyk
3.) Kansas State- Wally Judge, Jamar Samuels, Curtis Kelly, Luis Colon
4.) Texas- Dexter Pittman, Gary Johnson, Alexis Wangmene, Clint Chapman, Matt Hill
5.) Iowa State- Craig Brackins, Jamie Vanderbeken, Laron Dendy, Justin Hamilton

 

[cowboysooner]

4) Tiny, Allen, Fitz and Wright

 

[thebigabd]

4) Tiny, Allen, Fitz and Wright

Lol, we dont even know if Allen, Fitz, and Wright can give OU more than 5 points a game. I expect Tiny to be a good player, but am not expecting Allen and Wright to be.

 

[HoHum]

12.) Oklahoma State - Marshall Moses

 

[MNsooner]

I think I'd flip Texas and KSU but it is pretty close in my mind. I think that list is more or less correct. OU could be on it by the end of the season, but being realistic with what we know now OU isn't in the top 5.

 

[thebigabd]

12.) Oklahoma State - Marshall Moses

OSU really does have the #12 frontcourt in the conference...

 

[HoHum]

OSU really does have the #12 frontcourt in the conference...

I know!

 

[Krugerfan52]

This is how I would rank em from 1-12, only using players that are sure to get significant minutes.

1.) Kansas- Cole Aldrich, Marcus Morris, Markieff Morris, Jeff Withey, Thomas Robinson
4.) Texas- Dexter Pittman, Damian James, Gary Johnson, Wangmene/Chapman
2.) Texas A&M- Bryan Davis, Junior Elonu, David Loubeau
3.) Kansas State- Wally Judge, Jamar Samuels, Luis Colon
5.) Oklahoma - Tiny Gallon, Andrew Fitzgerald, Ryan Wright
6.) Iowa State- Craig Brackins, Jamie Vanderbeken, Justin Hamilton
7.) Baylor - Quincy Acy, Cory Jefferson, Josh Lomers
8.) Missouri - Justin Safford, Laurence Bowers, Keith Ramsey
9.) OSU - Marshall Moses, Tekeng Akol (lol, j/k)
10) Tech - Robert Lowendoski, D'Wayln Roberts
11) Colorado - Austin Dufault
12) Nebraska - ???????????? Apparently they have less size than OSU.

I was worried about our frontcourt, but after looking around the big 12, I noticed that we will play 9 games against 6 Big 12 teams that would love to have a Tiny Gallon up front. Marshall Moses is really the only solid post player on teams 7-12 and he's 6-6.

 

[thebigabd]

6.) Iowa State- Craig Brackins, Jamie Vanderbeken, Justin Hamilton

You are forgetting about Laron Dendy.

12) Nebraska - ???????????? Apparently they have less size than OSU.

Nebraska has two 6'11'' international centers that become eligible this year, one who probably would have started last year out of Germany. They also have a 6'8'' 245 juco guy they are high on. If another German recruit is eligible, he gives them a great scorer at 6'9'' 220 as well.

10) Tech - Robert Lowendoski, D'Wayln Roberts

Mike Singletary plays power forward for them, and is possibly their best player.

11) Colorado - Austin Dufault

Shane Harris-Tunks is the #1 recruit out of Australia this year, and is going to be their starting center from day one. Also, Marcus Relphorde will play some power forward for them as well and he is a really good 3pt shooter at 6'7'' 225.

7.) Baylor - Quincy Acy, Cory Jefferson, Josh Lomers

Ekpe Udoh.

 

[Krugerfan52]

I did forget about Epke Udoh. He is a proven player. But those incoming European players for Nebraska and Colorado may never start a game in the Big 12. (See Shang Ping) Hard to include them on a list of players that will get significant minutes right now.

A good example of this is one of Baylor's supposed solutions to a lack of inside game last year....Artem Valov, the 6-9 Juco Russian last year. Anybody know what happened to him?

 

[Seymore Cox]

Kansas-Depth
A&M- Proved they were better than Texas last years-
Texas-Pittman and Johnson are good players, but a mixed bag
ISU- Brackins is best player in conference and the other guy is a good shot
KState-Too early to tell on Judge

 

[DallasCoach]

I have not seen him play, but Jerry Meyer at rivals.com said Dragan Sekelja would be a 5-star in the final rivals ranking for 2009. Meyer called Dragan the top big man prospect in Europe coming to the US. Who knows if that is true, but it would be good for the Big XII. Dragan is not ranked right now.

 

[DFWHoopster]

I have not seen him play, but Jerry Meyer at rivals.com said Dragan Sekelja would be a 5-star in the final rivals ranking for 2009. Meyer called Dragan the top big man prospect in Europe coming to the US. Who knows if that is true, but it would be good for the Big XII. Dragan is not ranked right now.

Dallas Coach- the coaches in Waco are very high on this guy saying crazy stuff like this would be the top ranked center in the country if he played HS ball in the US. I'm always skeptical of European big men. But supposedly this kid has the size 7'0" 240 lbs and the skill- agile, can handle, pass, quick leaper, aggressive. If he is even close to the skill level that Meyer is projecting... I think you have to rate Baylor's frontcourt 4th ahead of Kansas State.

And he is eligible so he should be in Waco in July. Drew has stockpiled some talent down there. He better produce next year or his critics are going to get louder and louder.

 

[Seymore Cox]

Dallas Coach- the coaches in Waco are very high on this guy saying crazy stuff like this would be the top ranked center in the country if he played HS ball in the US

What would you expect his coach to say? I highly doubt what they said though and if we get to the meat of it, Baylor coaches have not had a history of great talent evaluation.

 

[quick release]

wasn't shang ping a walkon?

 

[DFWHoopster]

What would you expect his coach to say? I highly doubt what they said though and if we get to the meat of it, Baylor coaches have not had a history of great talent evaluation.

I thought your stated position was that Drew is a bad bench coach who has accumulated a great deal of talent but vastly underutilized it? Now you are saying Baylor coaches have been poor talent evaluators? I am confused.

Rivals isn't everything. But they would disagree with your above quote on evaluating talent. Baylor has on their roster 8 Rivals Top 100 National guys.

Tweety Carter
Josh Lomers
Lace Dunn
Cory Jefferson
Nolan Dennis
Quincy Acy
Mark McLaughlin
Anthony Jones

They have 3 players ranked from 101-200 nationally

Givon Crump
AJ Walton
Ekpe Udoh

And they have a player who Jerry Meyers at Rivals- a well respected talent evaluator- says is a 5-star talent in Dragan Sekelja.

Now, you know I am a Baylor fan. I do think their talent in the past has been slightly overrated- short guards and slow footed bigs. But I will be the first to admit that they have a loaded roster going forward. If they don't finish in the top 6 of the big 12 (the best basketball league in the nation next year), they will have underachieved as they did in conference this past year.

Baylor's talent is 4th in my opinion behind KU, UT and OU with A&M and KSU slightly behind. But we all know talent alone does not win games. But you also don't win games unless you have talent.

For the first time, Drew has a balanced roster. What he does with it remains to be seen.

 

[Seymore Cox]

I thought your stated position was that Drew is a bad bench coach who has accumulated a great deal of talent but vastly underutilized it? Now you are saying Baylor coaches have been poor talent evaluators? I am confused.

Rivals isn't everything. But they would disagree with your above quote on evaluating talent. Baylor has on their roster 8 Rivals Top 100 National guys.

Tweety Carter
Josh Lomers
Lace Dunn
Cory Jefferson
Nolan Dennis
Quincy Acy
Mark McLaughlin
Anthony Jones

They have 3 players ranked from 101-200 nationally

Givon Crump
AJ Walton
Ekpe Udoh

And they have a player who Jerry Meyers at Rivals- a well respected talent evaluator- says is a 5-star talent in Dragan Sekelja.

Now, you know I am a Baylor fan. I do think their talent in the past has been slightly overrated- short guards and slow footed bigs. But I will be the first to admit that they have a loaded roster going forward. If they don't finish in the top 6 of the big 12 (the best basketball league in the nation next year), they will have underachieved as they did in conference this past year.

Baylor's talent is 4th in my opinion behind KU, UT and OU with A&M and KSU slightly behind. But we all know talent alone does not win games. But you also don't win games unless you have talent.

For the first time, Drew has a balanced roster. What he does with it remains to be seen.

Lomers & Dienne...... Nuff said.

 

[DFWHoopster]

Lomers & Dienne...... Nuff said.

Diene was not a top recruit signed to an LOI in Drew's 2nd season. Lomers was highly recruited and can be considered a disappointment. But he has suffered from knee problems and terrible asthma. The guy can barely run up and down the court now as a result. I don't understand how your comment supports your point that Baylor does a poor job of evaluating talent.

 

[Krugerfan52]

Exactly. There's a reason why guys like Tiny Gallon and Blake Griffin are 5-star McDonalds all-americans and these no-name 7-foot stiffs are not.

Thats why you take Lebron James and not Darko Milicic.


Sorry, I was too slow. I was supporting DMess saying fool me once, when it comes to overrated 7-footers at Baylor.

 

[DFWHoopster]

Exactly. There's a reason why guys like Tiny Gallon and Blake Griffin are 5-star McDonalds all-americans and these no-name 7-foot stiffs are not.

Thats why you take Lebron James and not Darko Milicic.


Sorry, I was too slow. I was supporting DMess saying fool me once, when it comes to overrated 7-footers at Baylor.

I hear you. My point was you can only say one 7 footer has been overrated for Baylor so far and that is Lomers. Big men are always hit or miss. Here's a sampling of 5 star centers from the past 7 years. I bolded the ones who were deserving of a 5 star ranking in hindsight:

2002: Jason Frazer (Villanova); Amare Stoudemire; Torin Francis (Notre Dame); Paul Davis (Mich St); Deangelo Collins

2003: James Lang; Brian Butch (Wisconsin); Kendrick Perkins; David Padgett (Kansas)

2004: Al Jefferson; Randolph Morris (UK); Robert Swift (USC); Lamarcus Aldridge (UT)

2005: Andrew Bynum (UConn)

2006: Greg Oden (Ohio St); Spencer Hawes (Washington); Brian Zoubek (Duke); Robin Lopez (Stanford); Jon Kreft; Jason Bennett (KSU)

2007: Kevin Love (UCLA); DeAndre Jordan (A&M); Kosta Koufos (Ohio St); Solomon Alabi (Florida St); Beas Hamga (UNLV)

2008: BJ Mullens (Ohio St); Ty Walker (Wake Forest); Tony Woods (Wake Forest); J'Mison Morgan (UCLA)

About a 40% success rate in predicting effective centers. A 5 star guy is labeled can't miss coming out of high school and most likely gets a number one pick by some NBA team if college was not an option. So for an apples to apples comparison...

European big men drafted in the 1st round in the last 7 years. I bold the succesful ones:

2002: Nikoloz Tskitishvili (7'0" Denver 5th pick); Nenad Krstic (6'11" NJ 24th pick)

2003: Darko Milicic (7'0" Detroit 2nd pick); Zarko Cabarkapa (7'0" Phoenix 17th pick)

2004: Andris Biedrins (6'11" GS 11th pick); Pavel Podkolzin (7'5" Utah 21st pick)

2005: Fran Vazquez (6'10" Orlando 10th pick); Johan Petro (7'0" Seattle 25th pick)

2006: Andrea Bargnani (6'10" Toronto 1st pick); Oleksiy Pecherov (7'0" Wash 18th pick)

2007: none

2008: Alexis Ajinca (7'0" Charlotte 20th pick)

3 out of 11 of those were successes in my book Krstic (before he got hurt he was a good NBA player); Biedrins and Bargnani.

So your point is well taken. A 5 star US player has a slightly higher success probability than a 5 star rated Euro.