Remind me: the true story of the "donor program" from 40 years ago

[NMSooner'80]

I lived out of state in early 1984, so I wasn't close to the situation. When I wound up taking a job in the OKC area that summer, I heard that OU put in a "donor program" for men's basketball that basically screwed over several original season ticket holders from the early LNC days, in favor of "athletic donors" who usually didn't bother to show up for home games.

I would honestly like to know the truth behind all of that. I do know it hurt attendance for most home games. People can wax poetic all they want about the "big crowds" of the Tubbs and Sampson days, but there were plenty of nights when less than 5,000 folks showed up at the LNC. I couldn't get used to that, coming back from New Mexico and seeing huge crowds for a barely NIT-worth team in Albuquerque. It seemed to me like it was a move of pure greed, designed to milk the last year of Wayman Tisdale ('84-85) for greenbacks at the expense of the actual program.

Also, I think that "donor program" has been debated for years about whether or not people only got the "donor tickets" for football ticket priority points. I don't know if that was true or not, but my hunch is that it was.

Either way, as I've observed it from afar, the "donor program" was a giant self-inflicted wound on OU hoops attendance that has never completely healed. And having folks bail on the team for the Thunder has been no help either (that really offends me if they're OU alumni who did that). I'm not in the camp of people who root against the Thunder because of the harm they've done to OU men's basketball, but I can understand the sentiment. I've never been to one of their games in person, and I really don't care to at this point.

 

[BoulderSooner]

I lived out of state in early 1984, so I wasn't close to the situation. When I wound up taking a job in the OKC area that summer, I heard that OU put in a "donor program" for men's basketball that basically screwed over several original season ticket holders from the early LNC days, in favor of "athletic donors" who usually didn't bother to show up for home games.

I would honestly like to know the truth behind all of that. I do know it hurt attendance for most home games. People can wax poetic all they want about the "big crowds" of the Tubbs and Sampson days, but there were plenty of nights when less than 5,000 folks showed up at the LNC. I couldn't get used to that, coming back from New Mexico and seeing huge crowds for a barely NIT-worth team in Albuquerque. It seemed to me like it was a move of pure greed, designed to milk the last year of Wayman Tisdale ('84-85) for greenbacks at the expense of the actual program.

Also, I think that "donor program" has been debated for years about whether or not people only got the "donor tickets" for football ticket priority points. I don't know if that was true or not, but my hunch is that it was.

Either way, as I've observed it from afar, the "donor program" was a giant self-inflicted wound on OU hoops attendance that has never completely healed. And having folks bail on the team for the Thunder has been no help either (that really offends me if they're OU alumni who did that). I'm not in the camp of people who root against the Thunder because of the harm they've done to OU men's basketball, but I can understand the sentiment. I've never been to one of their games in person, and I really don't care to at this point.

i can't speak to when the "donor program" for all OU sports started ..

I can speak to the Basketball football connection being largely a myth ..

 

[SoonerTraveler]

My experience.

I became a season ticket holder for OU basketball in 1978 and continued to be one for about 35 years. I was never a big dollar donor but was always able to afford good seats (First 4 Rows of Section 104). I had three season tickets, as my father went to the games with me, and I also invited various friends and family to use the third seat.

I am not certain what year the donations started, but I never lost my seat. The amount to keep my very good “lower corner” seats was something nominal. I think it was something like $100 per seat, and gradually increased to about $250 donation per seat over three decades. So, I became a basketball donor to keep my seats.

Winning and Success. Clearly, OU tried to take advantage of the Billy Tubbs success to increase revenues from men’s basketball. It was the era when donations were becoming the thing all over the country. OU was certainly not breaking new ground with their donor program.

No one was really kicked out of their seats but were given the opportunity to make the required donation to keep their seats. Of course, some people were upset at the increased cost. The very best “50-yard line” seats required larger donations. There is no doubt that some fans chose not to incur the additional cost.

MYTH: The courtside seating was fuller before the donation program began. This is not true. As a fan in the stands, I was always disappointed by the fan support at OU basketball games. It was mediocre before the donor program, and the same after the donor program. There was no observable difference. This is based on what I saw with my own eyes inside the LNC.

There was also a MYTH that football donations were considered in the pecking order for good basketball seats. This is also not true. I know this for a fact from personal experience. The basketball seating donation is separate, and you can get the very best seats at the LNC without being a football donor.

Everywhere in All Sports. It is commonplace that the best seats cost the most money. This is true for OKC Thunder games just as it is for OU games.

Observation: During the decades I had season tickets, I attended EVERY home game in person. Year after year, decade after decade, I was disappointed in the lack of support for OU basketball. Sure, there were legit sellouts for the Billy Tubbs vs. Jerry Tarkanian games. The Kelvin Sampson teams had a good number of sellouts. However, I went to many, many games when OU had a highly rated team, and the place was barely half full. This was true in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and any other decade. Donations or not, it has always been so. Based on firsthand observations, donations had nothing to do with it. Hardcore dedicated OU Basketball fans are a rare breed.

I always gave away my third ticket for free to anyone that wanted a great seat to see a game. I cannot count the number of times that no wanted the ticket, and the seat went empty.

I almost always went to Kansas City for the Big-8 or Big-12 tournaments, and the number of OU fans that followed even the best OU teams was pathetic. This was also true when I went to NCAA Sweet-16 and Elite-8 games. It is a fact of life that OU fans do not support basketball.

Note: There is a SMALL hardcore group of supporters. I used to be a member of the Tip-In Club and saw these folks. God Bless them.

 

[BoulderSooner]

My experience.

I became a season ticket holder for OU basketball in 1978 and continued to be one for about 35 years. I was never a big dollar donor but was always able to afford good seats (First 4 Rows of Section 104). I had three season tickets, as my father went to the games with me, and I also invited various friends and family to use the third seat.

I am not certain what year the donations started, but I never lost my seat. The amount to keep my very good “lower corner” seats was something nominal. I think it was something like $100 per seat, and gradually increased to about $250 donation per seat over three decades. So, I became a basketball donor to keep my seats.

Winning and Success. Clearly, OU tried to take advantage of the Billy Tubbs success to increase revenues from men’s basketball. It was the era when donations were becoming the thing all over the country. OU was certainly not breaking new breaking new ground with their donor program.

No one was really kicked out of their seats but were given the opportunity to make the required donation to keep their seats. Of course, some people were upset at the increased cost. The very best “50-yard line” seats required larger donations. There is no doubt that some fans chose not to incur the additional cost.

MYTH: The courtside seating was fuller before the donation program began. This is not true. As a fan in the stands, I was always disappointed by the fan support at OU basketball games. It was mediocre before the donor program, and the same after the donor program. There was no observable difference. This is based on what I saw with my own eyes inside the LNC.

There was also a MYTH that football donations were considered in the pecking order for good basketball seats. This is also not true. I know this for a fact from personal experience. The basketball seating donation is separate, and you can get the very best seats at the LNC without being a football donor.

Everywhere in All Sports. It is commonplace that the best seats cost the most money. This is true for OKC Thunder games just as it is for OU games.

Observation: During the decades I had season tickets, I attended EVERY home game in person. Year after year, decade after decade, I was disappointed in the lack of support for OU basketball. Sure, there were legit sellouts for the Billy Tubbs vs. Jerry Tarkanian games. The Kelvin Sampson teams had a good number of sellouts. However, I went to many, many games when OU had a highly rated team, and the place was barely half full. This was true in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and any other decade. Donations or not, it has always been so. Based on firsthand observations, donations had nothing to do with it. Hardcore dedicated OU Basketball fans are a rare breed.

I always gave away my third ticket for free to anyone that wanted a great seat to see a game. I cannot count the number of times that no wanted the ticket, and the seat went empty.

I almost always went to Kansas City for the Big-8 or Big-12 tournaments, and the number of OU fans that followed even the best OU teams was pathetic. This was also true when I went to NCAA Sweet-16 and Elite-8 games. It is a fact of life that OU fans do not support basketball.

Note: There is a SMALL hardcore group of supporters. I used to be a member of the Tip-In Club and saw these folks. God Bless them.

thank you for sharing this ..

I had seats in F2 in the first few rows for years and years ... by the end the donation requirement was 750 a ticket (far more then my football seats) ..

we had 4 seats and like you i often had 1 or 2 extras and often they went unused ..


now OU did do things to fight hard to get donors to show up ... the pregame meal in the club was nice ... (of course when it started they were still charging for a coke at it) ..

they added beer to it (after Boren finally allowed it ) .. the eventually had it open at half time so you could go up and watch a game and have a beer .. and post game to watch the press conf...

of course this was all before beer was sold in the arena ..


the only thing being a bball ticket holder gets you in football is the 1 donor point .. (which is the same for every sport in which you buy tickets) ..



no i will say that the really big donors .. (those that give like 10k + a year well over the "required" about for football tickets) can buy basketball tickets .. and lots of them do ... so that when kansas or texas or osu are in norman they have "their" seats ... and they don't show up for lots of the other games .. especially midweek ..

 

[SoonerTraveler]

Yep. Those comments bring back more memories. Over the years OU has made significant efforts, but OU fans have been vaccinated against large scale basketball support. I sometimes drove home depressed by the lack of support.

The LNC is a blast when it is full of Sooner fans. I have doubts that a new arena will have any effect to increase support for OU basketball.

 

[SoonerTraveler]

no i will say that the really big donors .. (those that give like 10k + a year well over the "required" about for football tickets) can buy basketball tickets .. and lots of them do ... so that when kansas or texas or osu are in norman they have "their" seats ... and they don't show up for lots of the other games .. especially midweek ..

True. My primary point was that their football donation did not get them basketball tickets. They had to make the additional (separate) donation for the basketball seats. The really big donors can afford to do so, if they wish. But even before the donor program, there were plenty of empty seats in the prime sections.

BTW, thanks much for this board. I do not post much but still browse.

 

[skyvue]

Sure, there were legit sellouts for the Billy Tubbs vs. Jerry Tarkanian games. The Kelvin Sampson teams had a good number of sellouts. However, I went to many, many games when OU had a highly rated team, and the place was barely half full. This was true in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and any other decade. Donations or not, it has always been so. Based on firsthand observations, donations had nothing to do with it. Hardcore dedicated OU Basketball fans are a rare breed.

We so often see posts (there was one here recently) suggesting that the LNC was packed (or close to it) for every game during Tubbs' time in Norman. It's a widely held delusion, a time-burnished false memory like the notion that OU "hung half a hundred on them" in every football game Switzer coached.

 

[Sooner Season]

While it is true not every game was full in the Billy Tubbs era it is also true that during his run the student section was the entire northwest quadrant of the arena (both upper and lower) and for really big games you had to get there an hour early to have any hope of lower seating. If you showed up at game time you might get a seat in the upper rows of the end. My point is even though some may remember the attendance for more than it was, it still was much better than it is now days.

I also remember standing room only where people would be lined 2 or 3 deep around the upper wall. The LNC is a loud rockus place when it is like that. And while I'm not a big donor I am both a football and basketball season ticket holder and while I get a few extra points for having basketball tickets and attending it's not a driving factor for purchasing the tickets. Someone could probably donate $1000 dollars extra and pass me by on the football points ladder for what I get for being a basketball ticket holder.

 

[SoonerTraveler]

I miss the days of JUCO Transfers like Skeeter Henry (1989, 90) and the wild OU student section with the Skeeter Meter. The LNC was such an exciting place in those days.

 

[opsooner]

We so often see posts (there was one here recently) suggesting that the LNC was packed (or close to it) for every game during Tubbs' time in Norman. It's a widely held delusion, a time-burnished false memory like the notion that OU "hung half a hundred on them" in every football game Switzer coached.

Well, Tubbs had some average teams at times. But when we had the nation’s longest home win streak the arena was largely full. And it was certainly full for the big games.

 

[bob the nailer]

It is true that you have to pay donor fees to get donor seats for basketball separate from football, and more money equals better seats. Having football tickets does not get you better basketball seats, and vice versa, EXCEPT there is a point system which is score by how much your total donation is, and it is used to allocate things such as away games, such as NCAA tournament, should we ever get to go again, or bowl games, and away games and OU Texas in football.

 

[sanguinetti]

My late father was a member of the Tip -In club and had same seats in LE4 since the late 70s.

I went to probably 80% of the games during Billy's time. Dad went to more that.

I remember me and my friends kinda bum rushing the line at the door to sneak into the Tip-In club for a coke. Good times.

He would have been able to contribute to this thread. He knew Billy pretty well. Did some legal stuff for him from time to time.

 

[NorthCarolinaSooner]

UTRGV is starting a football program. My wife is an alumni and wants to get season tickets. For their program, decent seats are about $300 per year and requires about $500-700 per year for the "donor" part....something like that. The numbers may be a little fudged but you get the idea.