Resume is Fine; Eye Test is Not

[SoonerBounce13]

That's horse ****. THAT is the kind of thinking that holds the OU basketball program back. That and wanting to hold onto Moser when he hasn't shown crap yet. How many bad seasons does that guy need to post in his career before people realize he's not a great coach?

OU could absolutely go find a better coach. 100%.

Could they find a better coach? it is certainly possible...but it would have to be a young up and comer that is looking to make a name for himself. No established big time coach is going to come in to OU right now. And if you bank on a young unproven coach, you could hit gold. Or you could end up with another capel. It really is a crap shoot sometimes.

 

[WichitaSooner]

That’s true but Capel was the only one who had made it past the 1st round of the tournament after his 1st 3 years. And he was very close to leaving for the Arizona job.

When Kelvin got a blue blood offer, he left. Lon wasn’t getting any blue blood offers in the twilight of his career.

And I have no doubt that we would likely lose a coach if a blue blood or near blue blood came calling. But those jobs are few and far between. And Lon was very clear from the time he arrived that he planned to finish his career in Norman. Unlike Moser, when Lon spoke about the program, he always extolled the virtues of the OU brand, rather than complaining about all the challenges. Maybe he pointed those things out behind the scenes, but he didn't use them as a crutch in interviews. Hell, Moser is obviously feeding those lines to broadcasters, as evidenced by a comment made by the color commentator last night.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Myth.

Our arena isn't keeping us from a championship or from recruiting championship caliber players. Literally 3 of our last 5 coaches have made a FF while at OU. 4 of 5 have made the Elite 8. All playing at LNC.

Let me get this straight...fans stating that we can't get a better coach is holding the program back but the actual recruiting tools and money to the program isn't? L.O.L.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

And I have no doubt that we would likely lose a coach if a blue blood or near blue blood came calling. But those jobs are few and far between. And Lon was very clear from the time he arrived that he planned to finish his career in Norman. Unlike Moser, when Lon spoke about the program, he always extolled the virtues of the OU brand, rather than complaining about all the challenges. Maybe he pointed those things out behind the scenes, but he didn't use them as a crutch in interviews. Hell, Moser is obviously feeding those lines to broadcasters, as evidenced by a comment made by the color commentator last night.

I have never heard PM use things things as an excuse. He is using them to get **** done for the program. And honestly, as a fan, it is pretty damn refreshing to see the coach say the things fans have been clamoring for for years.

 

[WichitaSooner]

I have never heard PM use things things as an excuse. He is using them to get **** done for the program. And honestly, as a fan, it is pretty damn refreshing to see the coach say the things fans have been clamoring for for years.

When you bring them up in every interview and constantly say you had to "build" the program, you are making excuses. Especially when he didn't have to build.

 

[WTSooner]

So are you going to give Moser that amount of time to get there?

Sampson, 8 years.
Capel III, 3 years. (But not Capel, Blake Griffin, honestly)
Kruger, 5 years.
Moser, already has a Final 4, but not at OU. Hasn't even been HC for 3 full years.

Also are you counting the Final Four runs as Elite 8 runs? That is silly to do.

So quick to argue that AGAIN, you aren't even discussing the same things.

The FF/Elite 8 stuff isn't to gauge how good/bad coaches are.

It was specifically to show that OU has been able to have success, to produce high end teams, teams capable of winning NC's, under MULTIPLE coaching staffs over the past what, 4 decades?

I don't give a crap that Moser has a FF at another school. That has nothing to do with this argument.

 

[IndySooner]

When you bring them up in every interview and constantly say you had to "build" the program, you are making excuses. Especially when he didn't have to build.

No. You’re putting the pressure on the people who can make it happen.

 

[hoopsaustin]

On paper, I am fine with this season. I do believe they are one win away from clinching a Tourney berth… and while getting that one win is no guarantee, they’ve done enough this year to lead me to believe they will get it. Chances are, we lose to Houston and then the pressure will be on the final week— but ultimately I think we get to 20 wins and wind up not sweating out Selection Sunday. And that is absolutely an improvement from the last two years where we were completely incapable of stopping the slide once it started. Sneaking out the sweep of OSU, winning at KSU, beating BYU, et are wins we weren’t getting the past couple of years.

I also think the roster is a little better which is why the above is true.

All of the above is positive and I’m happy we are at least talking March as the calendar flips. On paper, at this juncture, this has been an acceptable season to me.

But man, it’s honestly not super fun. Not an easy team to watch. I think they play hard and Coach hard. I do not question any physical effort or the desire to win. I see no evidence of a team that doesn’t give it their all. It’s just too much of a grind game to game and possession to possession.

The offensive system absolutely deserves criticism, but there are also times when we miss ANOTHER three footer where I think the talent/execution is equally an issue. It’s frustrating that there seems to be zero in-season improvement of any problems on a macro-level. And at some point when that is the case, you sort of haut shrug and accept it for what it is.

I was hopeful the thrilling win in Stilly would carry over. Moments matter and I thought that was the first truly exciting/thrilling moment of the Porter era. They played very well in the second half of that game. Things were fluid and competitive and it was good to see. But NOTHING carried over to Ames. We followed up a thrilling performance with a dreadful one where we made one more shot than turnover. Pathetic.

Yes, the B12 is really good and the schedule is a gauntlet. Road games are brutal. 7-8 in conf isn’t awful on the surface. But we’ve shown such little “juice” against the top tier teams. One really nice home win v ISU to start the season. Otherwise? A whole bunch of meh. Couldn’t keep it close either game v KU. Blown out at TCU. Blown out at Ames. Smoked by UT. Home loss to Tech. Whenever they’ve had a chance to maybe raise some eyebrows, it’s been a dud. They have one more chance this Sat to make a splash and I’ll be there rooting them on. But it’s hard to have much faith of them actually winning the game. Sort of feel like a valiant effort might be the ceiling.

And that’s the problem: the ceiling. It just feels so low right now. Now, if you make the Dance you get a chance to make a mark. Even one win the Tourney could switch the narrative quite a bit. That’s why it’s important to get there, even if they do it by backing in.

The eye test just isn’t impressive and we are running out of time to change that. The Moser era feels perilous currently. If ever a team needed a win over the #1 team…

Recall that we domed #1 seed in tourney Bama last year (prolly porter's signature win) and then absolutely followed that up with poop trash the rest of the season..

I was a huge fan of the porter hire, now i hope someone pays us his buyout and takes him off of our hands. I dont see his teams improve

 

[SoonerBounce13]

I was a huge fan of the porter hire, now i hope someone pays us his buyout and takes him off of our hands. I dont see his teams improve

Did LK's team's improve? AFter the buddy years (even with TY), it seemed we faded down the stretch every year...not unlike Moser

 

[TEvans4Three]

So quick to argue that AGAIN, you aren't even discussing the same things.

The FF/Elite 8 stuff isn't to gauge how good/bad coaches are.

It was specifically to show that OU has been able to have success, to produce high end teams, teams capable of winning NC's, under MULTIPLE coaching staffs over the past what, 4 decades?

I don't give a crap that Moser has a FF at another school. That has nothing to do with this argument.

Enough with your gaslighting.

I am saying, in order to have a proper comparison you have to have an equal sample size of time. Moser could win a Natty next year and all your arguments are moot.
You are trying to say LNC was fine for 4 coaches, when it was pretty new for one of the coaches, is a silly argument as well.

I have posted the renovations and build years elsewhere but OU and OSU are #13 and #14 in regards to doing anything with their arena.

 

[WTSooner]

Moser could win a Natty next year and all your arguments are moot.

Actually, if you were paying attention (good Lord man), that would SUPPORT my argument that OU has plenty of resources to win a NC.

Just go away. I'm done wasting my time with someone that cannot read/comprehend.

 

[Boom Soon]

Did LK's team's improve? AFter the buddy years (even with TY), it seemed we faded down the stretch every year...not unlike Moser

I don’t understand how people don’t understand this. Lon turned the OU program around and got it to a respectable position. That was his job. He could have coached forever at OU, but he didn’t. He retired at the perfect time. Lon’s teams had their fair share of disappointments and it was clear new leadership was needed. I don’t think anyone would argue that. BUT, he was able to get his team’s to the tourney. Thats the “respectable position” part. Moser then was brought it to not only keep OU in the NCAA tournament field each year, but at some point start competing for championships. Now, we can have the debate about how much more investment the program needed before the word championships” could even be used. But, Moser was not brought in to keep the status quo. He was a very good hire at the time. I would bet my entire life savings that the conversations between Moser and Joe C revolved around what Moser would do to take OU to the next level. There was no way Joe C was like “Well, Lon’s last few teams left a lot to be desired. So it’s totally cool if you keep that trend.” We should not be comparing Lon and Moser. Moser does not hold a candle to Lon. Lon was successful just about every stop. He developed NBA talent. Moser has not been successful at Oklahoma. He has not done what he was hired to do.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Actually, if you were paying attention (good Lord man), that would SUPPORT my argument that OU has plenty of resources to win a NC.

Just go away. I'm done wasting my time with someone that cannot read/comprehend.

Having lottery NBA picks goes a long ways in college sports.
OU hit lightening in a bottle having BG & TY in their backyard. That is very unlikely to happen.
Hield was a diamond in the rough. I do not expect that to happen but once in a decade for OU.
For a program like OU, to win consistently, you have to have support of the admin and NIL and a really great coach
We saw what happened when LK didn't have the star power. We saw what happened when Capel didn't have the star power.

The LNC and support is fine if you can bring in nba players. OU can't.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

I don’t understand how people don’t understand this. Lon turned the OU program around and got it to a respectable position. That was his job. He could have coached forever at OU, but he didn’t. He retired at the perfect time. Lon’s teams had their fair share of disappointments and it was clear new leadership was needed. I don’t think anyone would argue that. BUT, he was able to get his team’s to the tourney. Thats the “respectable position” part. Moser then was brought it to not only keep OU in the NCAA tournament field each year, but at some point start competing for championships. Now, we can have the debate about how much more investment the program needed before the word championships” could even be used. But, Moser was not brought in to keep the status quo. He was a very good hire at the time. I would bet my entire life savings that the conversations between Moser and Joe C revolved around what Moser would do to take OU to the next level. There was no way Joe C was like “Well, Lon’s last few teams left a lot to be desired. So it’s totally cool if you keep that trend.” We should not be comparing Lon and Moser. Moser does not hold a candle to Lon. Lon was successful just about every stop. He developed NBA talent. Moser has not been successful at Oklahoma. He has done what he was hired to do.

OK?

 

[SoonerDutch]

Lol, I just don’t understand why Moser is such an existential issue, especially in season, for so many OU fans haha.

It truly is the only prism/topic of discussion for some people who are fans of this program.

 

[TEvans4Three]

Actually, if you were paying attention (good Lord man), that would SUPPORT my argument that OU has plenty of resources to win a NC.

Just go away. I'm done wasting my time with someone that cannot read/comprehend.

You are upset with wet pants bc Moser is the coach.

You cite he should leave even though he was a top hire at the time. Others cite that the facilities and NIL/athletic money are holding us back from hiring a better or elite coach. You cite horses*** bc, of course you do.

TINY says a better coach would leave for better pastures in 3 years. (true, bc every other coach here has tried, even the current one)

You cite MYTH and talk about LNC hasn't stopped anyone from reaching the Final Four before.

I cite that the you have to at least give Moser a chance to see if he is a Final Four coach and doesn't need the facilities/NIL.

You then gaslight and start doing what you do best. You refuse to give any ground and think your opinion is higher than that of others bc it is a "me against the board" attitude you hold dear. It is rather annoying how low your ability to understand basic conversation is.

Moser winning a Natty would validate your "OU doesn't need a new facility argument", but moot your "Moser sucks argument".

I will not go away bc you can't read/comprehend.

 

[WichitaSooner]

You are upset with wet pants bc Moser is the coach.

You cite he should leave even though he was a top hire at the time. Others cite that the facilities and NIL/athletic money are holding us back from hiring a better or elite coach. You cite horses*** bc, of course you do.

TINY says a better coach would leave for better pastures in 3 years. (true, bc every other coach here has tried, even the current one)

You cite MYTH and talk about LNC hasn't stopped anyone from reaching the Final Four before.

I cite that the you have to at least give Moser a chance to see if he is a Final Four coach and doesn't need the facilities/NIL.

You then gaslight and start doing what you do best. You refuse to give any ground and think your opinion is higher than that of others bc it is a "me against the board" attitude you hold dear. It is rather annoying how low your ability to understand basic conversation is.

Moser winning a Natty would validate your "OU doesn't need a new facility argument", but moot your "Moser sucks argument".

I will not go away bc you can't read/comprehend.

Lon tried to leave after three seasons?

 

[TEvans4Three]

Lon tried to leave after three seasons?

You are 100%, correct. Except for Lon. Lon was here as his farewell tour.

 

[Boom Soon]

For the record, at this point, I would kill to get a coach in here who was so successful that he had blue bloods wanting him after only three years.

 

[TINY]

For the record, at this point, I would kill to get a coach in here who was so successful that he had blue bloods wanting him after only three years.

Jeff Capel is the only former ou coach who would fall in that category.

Kelvin lost in the 1st round of tournament 3 times. Lon lost in 1st round twice and missed a postseason. Tubbs went to 1 ncaa tourney (2nd round exit), 1 NIT, and missed postseason. Tubbs first 3 seasons look pretty familiar to Moser’s.