Sampson vs. Capel

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SoMuchDramaInTheLNC

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I think we can agree that there were 4 main issues OU fans had with Sampson:

1. Low scoring
2. Tournament troubles
3. Player defections
4. NCAA infractions

Now here we are, in year 4 under Capel. Let's compare Sampson's issues to Capel's:

1. Low scoring

The '09-'10 squad averaged 72 points a game, a 3 pointer above what Sampson's last team averaged. Sampson's 12 teams averaged about 73.8 ppg. Capel's 4 teams have averaged 71.5. So overall, Capel's teams score less than Sampson's, only they don't play defense as well. Awesome.

2. Tournament troubles

Sampson's tournament record was 11-11. He made the tournament every year except '03-'04, when, fresh off of an Elite Eight appearance, he made the NIT with an extremely young team that had player issues. He also has 1 Final Four under his belt. Capel's tournament record is 4-2. He has made the tournament twice in 4 years, both with the program's (arguably) second-best player ever. Fresh off an Elite Eight appearance, with an extremely young team that had player issues, he had the program's first losing season since 1981, missing the postseason for the second time in 4 years. So if he can get there, he's proven he can win (with an all-time great).

3. Player Defections

There were plenty under Sampson, especially in the ill-fated class of '03. I won't mention the '06 class (those weren't anything either coach necessarily did, just player decisions. Those that left were never Sooners). For such a "players' coach", Capel's lost a lot of players in just 4 years:

Bobby Maze
Chris Early
Tony Neysmith
Juan Patillo
Kyle Cannon
TMG (if true)
__?__

4. NCAA Infractions

Kelvin couldn't put down the cell phone, and that problem followed him to Indiana. As a result of his OU violations, Capel's first team struggled. Capel appeared to be doing things the right way until TMZ's report of Tiny accepting money from an agent. Now, Capel didn't have anything to do with this (we assume), but the fact that things like this are coming out has to raise some questions about OU following the rules.

What really sucks is that this comparison is being done in year FOUR of Capel's tenure. By now, he should have established some kind of identity. By that I mean something we do well night in and night out, not that we're a disorganized, unmotivated, underachieving team. Forget the John Blake comparisons; we essentially have Sean Sutton without an Adderall problem. Difference is, Sean never had a Blake Griffin-type player. Like Sean, though, he had some highly touted recruits that didn't pan out or left. Without Blake, Capel is 29-33, which is pitiful. Inexcusable for this caliber of a program.

Before today, I was a huge Capel apologist and fan. But now, I have this gut feeling he's got one more year to prove he can coach without Blake. Otherwise, we're going shopping again.

That is all.
 
Nothing good can or will come from this. Kelvin is gone. Move on.
 
Because I'm concerned about this program. Growing up in the mid-late 90s, OU basketball did for me what football could not, and that's why I follow them as much as I do. Believe me, I want Capel to prove me wrong. I like him. But I'm beginning to have my doubts, you know?
 
Nothing good can come from this thread. Sampson was great, so was Billy Tubbs and Bruce Drake but Jeff Capel is his own man and needs to carve up his legacy. He's having a lot of issues right now.
 
It sound like your dissing both, but saying that Capel is worse.
 
I was just pointing out their comparable flaws. Both have their good qualities too, obviously. And Capel is still quite young and learning. But what has he shown you so far that gives any indication that he can win without Blake?
 
Capel appeared to be doing things the right way until TMZ's report of Tiny accepting money from an agent. Now, Capel didn't have anything to do with this (we assume), but the fact that things like this are coming out has to raise some questions about OU following the rules.

How did OU not follow any rules?
Some of ya'll think Universities have a magic wand or CIA investigation tools and can just automatically know anything and everything about every possible recruit and player.
 
I think we can agree that there were 4 main issues OU fans had with Sampson:

1. Low scoring
2. Tournament troubles
3. Player defections
4. NCAA infractions

Now here we are, in year 4 under Capel. Let's compare Sampson's issues to Capel's:

1. Low scoring

The '09-'10 squad averaged 72 points a game, a 3 pointer above what Sampson's last team averaged. Sampson's 12 teams averaged about 73.8 ppg. Capel's 4 teams have averaged 71.5. So overall, Capel's teams score less than Sampson's, only they don't play defense as well. Awesome.

2. Tournament troubles

Sampson's tournament record was 11-11. He made the tournament every year except '03-'04, when, fresh off of an Elite Eight appearance, he made the NIT with an extremely young team that had player issues. He also has 1 Final Four under his belt. Capel's tournament record is 4-2. He has made the tournament twice in 4 years, both with the program's (arguably) second-best player ever. Fresh off an Elite Eight appearance, with an extremely young team that had player issues, he had the program's first losing season since 1981, missing the postseason for the second time in 4 years. So if he can get there, he's proven he can win (with an all-time great).

3. Player Defections

There were plenty under Sampson, especially in the ill-fated class of '03. I won't mention the '06 class (those weren't anything either coach necessarily did, just player decisions. Those that left were never Sooners). For such a "players' coach", Capel's lost a lot of players in just 4 years:

Bobby Maze
Chris Early
Tony Neysmith
Juan Patillo
Kyle Cannon
TMG (if true)
__?__

4. NCAA Infractions

Kelvin couldn't put down the cell phone, and that problem followed him to Indiana. As a result of his OU violations, Capel's first team struggled. Capel appeared to be doing things the right way until TMZ's report of Tiny accepting money from an agent. Now, Capel didn't have anything to do with this (we assume), but the fact that things like this are coming out has to raise some questions about OU following the rules.

What really sucks is that this comparison is being done in year FOUR of Capel's tenure. By now, he should have established some kind of identity. By that I mean something we do well night in and night out, not that we're a disorganized, unmotivated, underachieving team. Forget the John Blake comparisons; we essentially have Sean Sutton without an Adderall problem. Difference is, Sean never had a Blake Griffin-type player. Like Sean, though, he had some highly touted recruits that didn't pan out or left. Without Blake, Capel is 29-33, which is pitiful. Inexcusable for this caliber of a program.

Before today, I was a huge Capel apologist and fan. But now, I have this gut feeling he's got one more year to prove he can coach without Blake. Otherwise, we're going shopping again.

That is all.

Love the screen name.
 
Dunno. In ways the jury is still out on Coach so we still don't have a verdict. IMO, he's a great guy, a classy guy, and has the potential to be a great coach. I'm somewhat encouraged about the quotes we've seen where he talks about learning alot from this year. If he learned enough that we start to see things get back on track, then at least this season was good for something.
 
How did OU not follow any rules?
Some of ya'll think Universities have a magic wand or CIA investigation tools and can just automatically know anything and everything about every possible recruit and player.

Never said OU didn't follow any rules. I understand Capel or OU most likely had nothing to do with, or had no knowledge of this (alleged) situation. But the phrase "tip of the iceberg" comes to mind. And anytime there's any question of players being paid, it reflects poorly on the university, no?
 
From the 97-98 season til he quit, Kelvin won 11 or more games every year but once. That was one hell of a run. He was one of the top 10 coaches in America. Thats why he got the chance to coach at a top BBall school.

Sure he had some bad losses in the tourney but as we've seen this past week, there is always some luck involved in the tourney games. He was a damn good coach.

Jeff has a bunch of great qualities but he will have to become a tough taskmaster. I think the one parent kids who have been spoiled need to have a tough, no BS coach. This isn't Duke.
 
How is this even close to being constructive?
 
trap.jpg
 
Never said OU didn't follow any rules. I understand Capel or OU most likely had nothing to do with, or had no knowledge of this (alleged) situation. But the phrase "tip of the iceberg" comes to mind. And anytime there's any question of players being paid, it reflects poorly on the university, no?

If Gallon did take any money it was before he got to OU. That what was being alleged. It looks like that it may be nothing. I don't think that looks bad upon a university.
Troy Smith took money from a booster while at school and he got what a 1 game suspension?
John Wall took money from someone and he was suspended a game I believe.

To me what Gallon may have done does not reflect bad upon the university.
When you say "but the fact that things like this are coming out has to raise some questions about OU following the rules" you are implying that OU knew about this.
That isn't the case.
 
How is this even close to being constructive?

It's not constructive. I'm also aware of the trouble this topic can cause. But, since a new member started this thread, perhaps unknowingly, I'll let it go for a while to see where it leads. Carry on.
 
this thread is win. lets bring back all the old crew to argue this point now.
 
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