Savon Goodman

[pnkranger]

How is Goodman different from Dante Buford? They seem like clones. Is this the type of 4 man Lon wants -- mobile and athletic and able to attack in transition?

 

[AdaSooner]

I think that you answered your own question. I'm pretty sure than Lon thinks that Goodman is currently a good citizen and will represent you alma mater well.

He has certainly passed on plenty of kids so far that he didn't feel that way about. Little Stevie and Henry just to name a couple. Kruger probably hasn't lowered his standards at this late date.

^
This. I have never been opposed to giving any kid a second chance.

As you correctly pointed out, OU's roster is loaded with quality young men who will be a good influence on Goodman. If Coach Kruger and his staff are comfortable with him, count me in. I definitely like what I have seen of him on the highlight videos!

 

[KBaden145]

Is this the type of 4 man Lon wants -- mobile and athletic and able to attack in transition?

Yes but he would prefer they be 6-8 or bigger, with length being a big key. Osby would have been his perfect 4 man if he was an inch or 2 taller and a bit longer. I'd say the 5 he is looking for is the same size, not as skilled, but more of a rim protector and rebounder.


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[garyeb2]

Yes but he would prefer they be 6-8 or bigger, with length being a big key. Osby would have been his perfect 4 man if he was an inch or 2 taller and a bit longer. I'd say the 5 he is looking for is the same size, not as skilled, but more of a rim protector and rebounder.


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I think you are right. A player like Buford, by the time he is a Jr., could actually be a SF with the 6'8"/9" guy being a #4 and a more traditional #5. Same for Goodman.

 

[AdaSooner]

How is Goodman different from Dante Buford? They seem like clones. Is this the type of 4 man Lon wants -- mobile and athletic and able to attack in transition?

I agree that Buford and Goodman appear to be similar in size, body type and style of play. But I have said all along that Buford was recruited to play the three. He may not stay there, but assuming he is correct in what he was told when he signed with OU, he will at least get a chance to play that position.

I have no idea if he will be able to play the three? Cousins wanted to be a point guard. LK kept his promise and gave him every chance to succeed or fail in that position his freshman season. When it didn't work out, he went back to the position he played for most of his high school career. Obviously, it was a win-win for everyone involved.

One of the many things I like about Coach Kruger is that he is a man of his word. That's why I continue to say that Buford will be given every opportunity to play the three at some point.

 

[WTSooner]

I agree that Buford and Goodman appear to be similar in size, body type and style of play. But I have said all along that Buford was recruited to play the three. He may not stay there, but assuming he is correct in what he was told when he signed with OU, he will at least get a chance to play that position.

I've said before that I don't see any way Buford plays anything but the 4 for the next two years, but that IF he develops, he MAY have a shot at getting minutes at the 3 as an upperclassman.

That said, what did LK tell Buford? I don't think I read anything where LK told him he'd play the 3, or the SF spot. I think, and I might be wrong here, that LK told him he could play on the wing.

So answer me this. Cam played the 4 exclusively last season. Is it fair to say, offensively, that he played the wing? I think so. So what I'm saying is, I think LK can get Buford the experience of catching the ball all the wing, and being a guy that can do it all (shoot it from 3, drive it, and post up some) from the 4 spot. What Cam was doing this year offensively, movement-wise, and where he was catching the ball, wasn't all that different then what Hield was doing.

 

[WTSooner]

Yes but he would prefer they be 6-8 or bigger, with length being a big key. Osby would have been his perfect 4 man if he was an inch or 2 taller and a bit longer. I'd say the 5 he is looking for is the same size, not as skilled, but more of a rim protector and rebounder.


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Those are VERY difficult to find. How many skilled 6'8 or bigger guys were in the Big 12 this year? Seems like if they have that size, they aren't skilled enough, and if they are skilled enough, they probably aren't a legit 6'8.

That is like saying KD is the perfect 3. Of course he is. It's just tough to find those guys.

I think LK would be more than thrilled at having guys like Osby, M'Baye, or Buford playing the 4. Maybe, maybe Lattin, if he develops. But getting 6'8+ guys that can come and be skilled 4's from day 1 is tough.

 

[KBaden145]

Those are VERY difficult to find. How many skilled 6'8 or bigger guys were in the Big 12 this year? Seems like if they have that size, they aren't skilled enough, and if they are skilled enough, they probably aren't a legit 6'8.



That is like saying KD is the perfect 3. Of course he is. It's just tough to find those guys.



I think LK would be more than thrilled at having guys like Osby, M'Baye, or Buford playing the 4. Maybe, maybe Lattin, if he develops. But getting 6'8+ guys that can come and be skilled 4's from day 1 is tough.

True and you made my point. Osby was almost 6-8, MBaye is 6-9. Buford is listed 6-6 to 6-7 but seems to play a little bigger than that. I said Coach would 'prefer' they be a bit taller and longer and Osby would be 'perfect' if he were just a bit bigger. Being 'thrilled' to get a guy isn't the same as getting your ideal player for a spot.


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[KBaden145]

That is like saying KD is the perfect 3. Of course he is.

No it's not.


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[KBaden145]

There seems to be a debate about what a 3, 4, 5 is for this coaching staff. I like lists and would like to use some former Sooner players as examples of what I think they will be looking for at each of these spots going forward.

I'll start with the 3 (small forward/wing):

Anthony Bowie
Dave Sieger
Skeeter Henry
Damon Patterson
Nate Erdmann
Nolan Johnson
Cameron Clark

The 4 (power forward)
Harvey Grant
Jackie Jones
Jeff Webster
Eduardo Najera
Aaron McGhee
Blake Griffin (SO year)
Romero Osby
Amath MBaye

The 5 (center/post)

Stacey King
Brian Sallier
James Mayden
Evan Wiley
Jabari Brown
Kevin Bookout
Taj Gray
Longar Longar
Blake Griffin (FR year)

I did not forget Wayman Tisdale and Ryan Minor. They aren't the easiest to place. Brother Tis translates to both the 4 and 5 in ways. Ryan would be a 3 but I think defense would be an issue for him against personnel he would face there.

Thoughts?



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[AdaSooner]

I've said before that I don't see any way Buford plays anything but the 4 for the next two years, but that IF he develops, he MAY have a shot at getting minutes at the 3 as an upperclassman.

That said, what did LK tell Buford? I don't think I read anything where LK told him he'd play the 3, or the SF spot. I think, and I might be wrong here, that LK told him he could play on the wing.

So answer me this. Cam played the 4 exclusively last season. Is it fair to say, offensively, that he played the wing? I think so. So what I'm saying is, I think LK can get Buford the experience of catching the ball all the wing, and being a guy that can do it all (shoot it from 3, drive it, and post up some) from the 4 spot. What Cam was doing this year offensively, movement-wise, and where he was catching the ball, wasn't all that different then what Hield was doing.

I'll see if I can find the article I read. That was not long after he committed to OU, so I can't be certain of the exact quote or if it was from Dante or his high school coach. I'll do another search in the next few days and post it here if I am successful in finding the article that led me to believe he would get a shot at the three.

 

[AdaSooner]

Dante is generally listed as a PF in high school on nearly every web site. But none of the articles I've read project him to play that position in college. On the contrary, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that he is projected as a three at the next level.

Is that projection cut in stone? Of course not. But based on what his high school coach and LK said in two of the articles below, I think it's safe to say that Dante playing the three was discussed during the recruiting process.

That doesn't mean he won't play the four. Like I said earlier, Cousins was brought in as a point guard but moved to his natural two guard position. Cam was a small forward who played the four by necessity. Dante may play there, too. But I don't see how anyone can read that into what LK and his high school coach said in the articles I've posted.

I still haven't found the article I referenced yet. I'm fairly sure there was a quote from Dante as well as his high school coach. One thing I remember is that Dante said he would be working on his handles and his perimeter shot his senior season. If I find it I'll post it.

"He's a great kid. He's really matured a lot since he came here," Morgan said. "He's a lot more mature about his game, his work ethic. I think he's got tremendous upside."

Morgan said the first attribute that struck him about Buford was his athleticism.

"He's so athletic," he said. "I mean -- that catches everybody's eye. I think because he's such a great athlete people don't realize that he can really shoot the ball, and he's a very good passer.

"To move out to (small forward) he needs to work on his ball-handling. But he can guard a (small forward) right now, which is very important. He's just got incredible timing, and he jumps so easy."

https://oklahoma.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1571766

OU Head Coach Lon Kruger on Dante Buford:
"Dante is a rangy 4/3, 3/4 who can score. He runs the floor very well and rebounds the ball aggressively. He's just a complete, all-around type player who brings a lot of things to the table. He plays with a good motor about him."

Arlington Country Day Head Coach Rex Morgan on Dante Buford:
"He's extremely athletic. He can run, he jumps real easy. He averaged 14 points and nine boards last year and shot 41 percent from the 3. So he can shoot the ball with good range. And he's a great kid. He's probably as good off the floor as he is on it.

"He wants to step outside and that's probably what he'll have to do at the next level. He's really been working on his ball handling and he can guard the 3 (position) right now, which is important.

http://www.soonersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=209307378


Please note the title of this article is "Small Forward Spotlight."


http://www.sourcehoops.com/sf-spotlight-dante-buford/

 

[CoachTalk]

You guys get some caught up on 4-5 talk... I'd say 60- 75% of teams play a 4 guard lineup.. Very few real good bigs, most "5's" in college are legit 4's...

 

[WTSooner]

You guys get some caught up on 4-5 talk... I'd say 60- 75% of teams play a 4 guard lineup.. Very few real good bigs, most "5's" in college are legit 4's...

I don't really disagree with you, but saying "4 guard lineup" is a little misleading. OU, or any team really, isn't running 4 true guards out there. Almost anybody playing a lineup like that is starting a bigger guy at the 4 spot that might have guard qualities, but it has to be a guy with size that can help on defense and on the boards.

In short, there isn't a good major D1 school out there playing somebody smaller than Cam at the 4 spot.

 

[KBaden145]

You guys get some caught up on 4-5 talk... I'd say 60- 75% of teams play a 4 guard lineup.. Very few real good bigs, most "5's" in college are legit 4's...

True but not my ideal way to play.


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[WTSooner]

Dante is generally listed as a PF in high school on nearly every web site. But none of the articles I've read project him to play that position in college. On the contrary, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that he is projected as a three at the next level.

Is that projection cut in stone? Of course not. But based on what his high school coach and LK said in two of the articles below, I think it's safe to say that Dante playing the three was discussed during the recruiting process.

That doesn't mean he won't play the four. Like I said earlier, Cousins was brought in as a point guard but moved to his natural two guard position. Cam was a small forward who played the four by necessity. Dante may play there, too. But I don't see how anyone can read that into what LK and his high school coach said in the articles I've posted.

I still haven't found the article I referenced yet. I'm fairly sure there was a quote from Dante as well as his high school coach. One thing I remember is that Dante said he would be working on his handles and his perimeter shot his senior season. If I find it I'll post it.

I'll guess we'll just have to wait and see, but none of that really changes my opinion. I will say how our roster is made up will factor into where Buford plays.

As in, if we don't add anybody to what we know we have now, I'd expect Buford to play 75% or more of his minutes at the 4 next year, but I could, in specific spots, see him getting some minutes at the 3. I honestly think he'd play nearly entirely at the 4, but there is a small opening for minutes at the 3.

Now, if we add a guard, like the Juco kid Bobbitt, and we don't add anybody else, there is just about no way in heck Buford would get any minutes at the 3 over the next two years. Just wouldn't make sense, given our roster makeup.

On the flip side, if we were to add a really good Juco big man for next year, a guy that can come in and be as good as a Spangler, then Buford may get more minutes at the 3, as Hield's backup. To me, this is unlikely though. I know we've looked at a couple of Juco bigs, allegedly, but I think it's more likely we sit pat, or add a guard, either as an extra piece, or as a Hornbeak replacement.

I'm sure LK has had talks with Buford about moving out to the wing. I just think the kid will be more successful, early in his college career, if he plays the 4. He needs to develop several skills (shooting, ball handling, etc), to effectively move out to the 3 full time. I think LK can get him some experience doing those things from the 4 his first two years, and then we re-evaluate things in two years. Our roster will have major turnover. Who knows where we would "need" Buford to play at that point. And we can re-evaluate his skills improvement at that point. I think Buford would be VERY content playing the 4 the next two years, much as Cam did this year. Like I said above, other than the simple verbage of being the 4 and not the 3, there is absolutely no difference in what the 3 and 4 are capable of doing in the offense we ran this year. Both get the ball on the wings, and are allowed to shoot, make plays, etc. I think that is what he (Buford) wants. I doubt the actual title of his position, or his defensive matchup, matters much to him.

Just my take, I might be wrong.

 

[WTSooner]

Injury next year could also get Buford minutes at the three. I think we're fine with 5 guards (Woodard, Cousins, Hield, Hornbeak, & Booker), but if one gets hurt, especially if it's Buddy, it might makes sense to play Buford out there, especially if a guy like Lattin is capable of giving us good minutes inside with Spangler.

Roster makeup will drive so much of Buford's position over the next two years, I think.

 

[AdaSooner]

I'm sure LK has had talks with Buford about moving out to the wing. I just think the kid will be more successful, early in his college career, if he plays the 4. He needs to develop several skills (shooting, ball handling, etc), to effectively move out to the 3 full time. I think LK can get him some experience doing those things from the 4 his first two years, and then we re-evaluate things in two years. Our roster will have major turnover. Who knows where we would "need" Buford to play at that point. And we can re-evaluate his skills improvement at that point. I think Buford would be VERY content playing the 4 the next two years, much as Cam did this year. Like I said above, other than the simple verbage of being the 4 and not the 3, there is absolutely no difference in what the 3 and 4 are capable of doing in the offense we ran this year. Both get the ball on the wings, and are allowed to shoot, make plays, etc. I think that is what he (Buford) wants. I doubt the actual title of his position, or his defensive matchup, matters much to him.

Just my take, I might be wrong.

You're right, the position title won't matter to Dante. Cam played out of position the entire season, so did Ryan. I think it could also be argued that Buddy is not the prototypical small forward.

Kids these days just want to play. "Line us up and throw out the ball, coach! We couldn't care less about the position." In reality, there aren't many college teams with a true one through five in their lineup anymore

To set the record straight, it doesn't matter to me either as long as it helps us to add more games to the win column. Did you get that, Coach?

I mentioned the possibility that Dante might play the three in response to pnkranger's question about the similarities between Goodman and Buford. LK has already proven that he's willing to go against the norm if it will create mismatches and give us a better chance of winning games. Even if we don't sign anyone in the spring period, he'll have a lot more options this fall.

 

[atlantasooner]

Having seen how OU got outsized physically by NDSU.
and by Baylor and at times KU.
It would be nice to go "big" with Dante at the 3.
And some combo of our bigs at 4/5.

 

[RoninDenton]

I feel Kruger has had to work with whomever he had on his roster. This is the first year he has been able to recruit his type of players and I believe we may see a different style of play that would be his real style. I really like where he is going with this team and the players he is recruiting will be his style in the future.