Softball

[Speedy17]

I am not a knower of softball scoring- but after a two out strikeout where the runner reaches base on a wild pitch, would not the next three runs be unearned?
Since the inning should have ended but for the wild pitch?

14.24 Earned/Unearned Run
14.24.1 Earned runs are runs for which the pitcher is statistically accountable
and the offense deserves to have scored (earned). An earned run shall be
charged against the pitcher when a runner scores as a result of a base on balls, a fielder’s choice, a hit, a putout, a batter hit by a pitch, an illegal pitch, a sacrifice bunt, a sacrifice fly, a stolen base and a wild pitch (including a third strike wild pitch). Earned runs are determined by reconstructing the inning as if there were no errors or passed balls. The pitcher should be given the benefit of the doubt in determining the advancement of runners had the defensive team been errorless.

 

[TulsaWorld]

The No. 2 Oklahoma softball team scored all of its runs in the sixth inning on Wednesday to get past Wichita State 7-6 in Norman.

The Shockers scored all six of their runs in the third and led until the Sooners burst through later in the game.

Link

 

[SoonerSpock]

All the words in the dictionary won't mean a thing to me unless I can look at the rankings and see that where someone has played (as well as who) is a key part of the formula. I see no evidence that it has any effect on the softball rpi.

We know that it has an effect on basketball. As has been explained on the various telecasts, the scores in gymnastics carry an entirely different weight when produced on the road as opposed to at home. A 198 at home barely gets notice. A 198 on the road is considered outstanding.

But, I keep looking at the SEC(and Pac 12) schedules and seeing little, if any, regard for whether a team has played on the road. You mentioned Georgia being ranked ahead of OU. I couldn't be less impressed. Georgia is 5-2 on the road, 26-2 at home. Seven road games? They did play five at a neutral site.

Georgia schedule:
https://georgiadogs.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=1451

Can you give me any reason why a team that plays horribly weak teams at home should be in the top ten? They are 11-4 in conference play. Only Oregon beat them in non-conference play. Who else might have beaten them? They are halfway through conference play, and they have only played seven road games. I think all seven are in conference. I don't think they played a non-conference road game.

Basketball knows better. Gymnastics knows better. Softball?

Now, look at the Pac12 and SEC schedules.

As per usual you see what you want. Georgia is 14-3 aganst the top 25 with 5 road wins. OU is 6-1 against the top 25 with 3 road wins. Both teams have played the same number of road games.

While I like you think OU has the best team in the game, I recognize the RPI rewards the teams that play the largest number of the best teams in the country. The system further allows that if you play primarily weak sisters you will be penalized. OU is unfortunately among the later.

When you play 51 regular season games and only 10 (19.6%) are top 25 teams you are not going to get the same recognition as a team like Georgia that plays 23 (42.6%) top 25 opponents among their 54 opponents. They are not going to reward OU or anyone else for playing nobodies.

Again the system is less than perfect but give me an alternative or recognize it as the best system available today despite the need for some refinement. As I stated earlier: "What do you propose to rectify what you think is unfair about the scheduling? Who do you suggest should be ranked ahead of the Pac 12 and SEC teams? Who is playing more of the better teams than those schools presently ranked in the top 25".


Answer the questions. Otherwise curl you tail between your legs and move on to the next subject as you have nothing pertinent to say about this one as few care what you like or don't like.

 

[sybarite]

As per usual you see what you want. Georgia is 11-3 aganst the top 25 with 5 road wins. OU is 6-1 against the top 25 with 3 road wins. Both teams have played the same number of road games.

While I like you think OU has the best team in the game, I recognize the RPI rewards the teams that play the largest number of the best teams in the country. The system further allows that if you play primarily weak sisters you will be penalized. OU is unfortunately among the later.

When you play 51 regular season games and only 8 are top 25 teams you are not going to get the same recognition as a team like Georgia that plays 17 top 25 opponents among their 54 opponents. They are not going to reward OU or anyone else for playing nobodies.

Again the system is less than perfect but give me an alternative or recognize it as the best system available today despite the need for some refinement. As I stated earlier: "What do you propose to rectify what you think is unfair about the scheduling? Who do you suggest should be ranked ahead of the Pac 12 and SEC teams? Who is playing more of the better teams than those schools presently ranked in the top 25".


Answer the questions. Otherwise curl you tail between your legs and move on to the next subject as you have nothing pertinent to say about this one as few care what you like or don't like.

I have given you an alternative. Do what they do in women's basketball and gymnastics. Weight the home and road differently.

It is irrelevant what Georgia's road record is in the SEC. If the SEC gets its reputation by playing only at home during the non-conference season, the entire conference is too high.

Now, unless you can provide some assurance that road and home games are rated differently, the discussion is over.

 

[SoonerSpock]

I have given you an alternative. Do what they do in women's basketball and gymnastics. Weight the home and road differently.

It is irrelevant what Georgia's road record is in the SEC. If the SEC gets its reputation by playing only at home during the non-conference season, the entire conference is too high.

Now, unless you can provide some assurance that road and home games are rated differently, the discussion is over.

What is the RPI?

The RPI (Rating Percentage Index) is a measure of strength of schedule and how a team does against that schedule. It does not consider things like margin of victory, only whether or not a team won and where the game was played. It is used by the NCAA as one of their factors in deciding which teams to invite to the NCAA tournament and where to seed them.
It was created in 1981 and is maintained by the NCAA Division I Men's Basketball Committee. They have always placed a premium on schedule strength when selecting teams for the tournament, so they wanted a relatively simple way to measure that and the RPI was born. This page presents an independent duplication of those ratings.

Just how important is the RPI?

As far as getting into the tournament, it appears to be more important to bubble teams than the top powers. It is also important in the seeding process.

What is the formula?

The basic formula is 25% team winning percentage (WP), 50% opponents' average winning percentage (OWP), and 25% opponents' opponents' average winning percentage (OOWP).
For the 2004-05 season, the formula was changed to give more weight to road wins vs home wins. A team's win total for RPI purposes is 1.4 * road wins + neutral site wins + 0.6 * home wins. A team's losses is calculated as 0.6 * road losses + neutral site losses + 1.4 * home losses.

For example, a team that is 4-0 at home and 2-7 on the road has a RPI record of 5.2 wins (1.4 * 2 + 0.6 * 4) and 4.2 losses (0.6 * 7). That means that even though it is 6-7, for RPI purposes, it is above .500 (5.2-4.2).

This "weighted" record is only used for the 25% of the formula that is each team's winning percentage. The regular team records are used to calculate OWP and OOWP.

As always, only games against Division I opponents count in the RPI.


First I do not have to provide anything. You are disputing the system not me you document your concerns. But that is something you cannot do as your opinion have no validity toward this discussion. What we know is the 25% WP + 50% OWP +25% OOWP is the base formula and that their are weighting factors for a teams winning percentage that weighs road wins and home losses more heavily than home wins and road losses. That is a fact.

We also know that these weighting factors vary slightly between basketball (1.4/0.6) and baseball (1.3/0.7) but a published formula with weighting factors for softball, hockey, soccer, lacrosse and volleyball is not readily available. It is logical to assume that softball's factors are most likely identical to baseball as the are with both men's and women's basketball. alsohe weighting factors for home and road games are not used when caculating OWP and OOWP.

Gymnastics uses a totally different formula called the RQS utilizing the top six scores of each team and dropping the top score. A totally impractical system for the other sports because of team scores are derived in a totally different subjective manner.

I have also supplied a link for lacrosse that provides FAQ's that I think are applicable to all sports and addresses some of your concerns.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rating_percentage_index

https://www.redandblack.com/sports/...cle_1008352e-56bd-11e2-b46e-0019bb30f31a.html

https://sites.google.com/site/rpifordivisioniwomenssoccer/rpi-formula

https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/FAQ_for_MLAX_RPI.pdf

http://www.collegerpi.com/rpifaq.html

 

[sybarite]

I'm sorry, but your discussion says nothing. There is no proof provided that the schedule is weighted for road vs home, and the empirical evidence suggests that it is not. If there is any weighting at all, it is inadequate.

Let's provide an example:

Georgia
Tempe, AZ Kajikawa Classic ASU host
23 San Diego State 2 (5)
3 Oregon 8
5 Utah 1
13 BYU 1 (6)
7 Oregon State 0

Red and Black Showcase at Georgia
9 Winthrop 0 (5)
10 Samford 0 (6)
10 Samford 2 (6)
8 Evansville 0 (6)
2 Evansville 0

Georgia Classic at Georgia
12 College of Charleston 0 (5)
9 Gardner-Webb 0 (6)
6 College of Charleston 0
7 East Tennessee State 0

Bulldog Classic at Georgia
12 Radford 2 (5)
7 Jacksonville State 0
7 UNC Greenboro 0
6 Jacksonville State 0
6 UNC Greensboro 1

6 West Carolina 0 at Georgia


OK. How did they get a high rating. Five neutral site games. The rest were at home. They lost a neutral site game. They didn't even play the hosts, Arizona or Arizona State. Then, they played patsies at home. Are there not at least twenty or thirty teams that could have made it through that with one loss? Go on the road. Play somebody.

Florida has the same type of schedule, and they lost at home to Maryland last year and to FIU this year. Neither goes on the road or leaves the state. How do they get a high ranking?

You are going to have to do something other than to cite the basketball formula to explain this. It happens every year, and it robbed Minnesota last year. Big Ten teams don't host tournaments, and Georgia probably wouldn't go if they did.

 

[SoonerSpock]

The RPI evidence is there and has been presented. Georgia is 14-3 against the top 25. OU is 6-1. Those are facts and each win/loss is factored with weighed averages favoring road wins/home losses. Both OU and Georgia have played the same number of road games against top ranked teams.

That is the system as designed and approved by the schools. Tournament results for the entire field has confirmed its seeding accuracy over its history. If you trace RPI history it has been modified periodically to successfully enhance it accuracy. Apparently it is not going to change significantly near term. I think it need to be tweaked to give more weight to team WP. However until OU can play a stronger SOS they are going to continue to be disadvantaged as the should be.

That is not the RPI's fault. That weak SOS rest at the feet of the Sooners and their circumstances as a member of the Big 12. You cannot play too many patsies and expect it to be overlooked because of the eye test.

This year the RPI is yelling Pac 12, Pac 12, Pac 12 instead of SEC, SEC, SEC because that is where the teams that have played the best SOS reside. ESPN is most definitely biased toward the SEC for monetary reasons. The RPI does does not care about conference affiliation the care only about who you play and where you play them.

To date OU has played 7 top 25 games (2 home, 2 neutral and 3 on the road with a 6-1 record). Georgia has played 17 top 25 (9 home, 2 neutral and 6 on the road with a 13-4 record). The system says Georgia has proven themselves on the field of play against top quality competition more so than OU has and they have. OU has 3 more top 25 games all on the road. Georgia has 6 more with 3 on the road. For the season Georgia has 23 (42.6%) top 25 games and OU has 10 (19.6%). What is confusing about 23 quality games vs 10 quality games? It is called SOS.

The system is not declaring Georgia is better than OU. That is done by the committee on the seeding show at season's end when they factor in their subjectivity using their eye test. Meanwhile you earn your ranking on the field of play by who and where play especially ranked teams.

Still waiting. "What do you propose to rectify what you think is unfair about the scheduling? Who do you suggest should be ranked ahead of the Pac 12 and SEC teams? Who is playing more of the better teams than those schools presently ranked in the top 25". No answers no argument.

 

[SoonerSpock]

Read the links provided in the earlier post. The RPI evidence is there and has been presented. Georgia is 14-3 against the top 25. OU is 6-1. Those are facts and each win/loss is factored with weighed averages favoring road wins/home losses. Both OU and Georgia have played the same number of road games against top ranked teams.

That is the system as designed and approved by the schools. Tournament results for the entire field has confirmed its seeding accuracy over its history. If you trace RPI history it has been modified periodically to successfully enhance it accuracy. Apparently it is not going to change significantly near term. I think it need to be tweaked to give more weight to team WP. However until OU can play a stronger SOS they are going to continue to be disadvantaged as the should be.

That is not the RPI's fault. That weak SOS rest at the feet of the Sooners and their circumstances as a member of the Big 12. You cannot play too many patsies and expect it to be overlooked because of the eye test.

This year the RPI is yelling Pac 12, Pac 12, Pac 12 instead of SEC, SEC, SEC because that is where the teams that have played the best SOS reside. ESPN is most definitely biased toward the SEC for monetary reasons. The RPI does does not care about conference affiliation the care only about who you play and where you play them.

To date OU has played 7 top 25 games (2 home, 2 neutral and 3 on the road with a 6-1 record). Georgia has played 17 top 25 (9 home, 2 neutral and 6 on the road with a 13-4 record). The system says Georgia has proven themselves on the field of play against top quality competition more so than OU has and they have. OU has 3 more top 25 games all on the road. Georgia has 6 more with 3 on the road. For the season Georgia has 23 top 25 games and OU has 10. What is confusing about 23 quality games vs 10 quality games.

The system is not declaring Georgia is better than OU. That is done by the committee on the seeding show at season's end when they factor in their subjectivity using their eye test. Meanwhile you earn your ranking on the field of play by who and where play especially ranked teams.

Still waiting. "What do you propose to rectify what you think is unfair about the scheduling? Who do you suggest should be ranked ahead of the Pac 12 and SEC teams? Who is playing more of the better teams than those schools presently ranked in the top 25". No answers no argument.

 

[sybarite]

The RPI evidence is there and has been presented. Georgia is 14-3 against the top 25. OU is 6-1. Those are facts and each win/loss is factored with weighed averages favoring road wins/home losses. Both OU and Georgia have played the same number of road games against top ranked teams.

That is the system as designed and approved by the schools. Tournament results for the entire field has confirmed its seeding accuracy over its history. If you trace RPI history it has been modified periodically to successfully enhance it accuracy. Apparently it is not going to change significantly near term. I think it need to be tweaked to give more weight to team WP. However until OU can play a stronger SOS they are going to continue to be disadvantaged as the should be.

That is not the RPI's fault. That weak SOS rest at the feet of the Sooners and their circumstances as a member of the Big 12. You cannot play too many patsies and expect it to be overlooked because of the eye test.

This year the RPI is yelling Pac 12, Pac 12, Pac 12 instead of SEC, SEC, SEC because that is where the teams that have played the best SOS reside. ESPN is most definitely biased toward the SEC for monetary reasons. The RPI does does not care about conference affiliation the care only about who you play and where you play them.

To date OU has played 7 top 25 games (2 home, 2 neutral and 3 on the road with a 6-1 record). Georgia has played 17 top 25 (9 home, 2 neutral and 6 on the road with a 13-4 record). The system says Georgia has proven themselves on the field of play against top quality competition more so than OU has and they have. OU has 3 more top 25 games all on the road. Georgia has 6 more with 3 on the road. For the season Georgia has 23 (42.6%) top 25 games and OU has 10 (19.6%). What is confusing about 23 quality games vs 10 quality games? It is called SOS.

The system is not declaring Georgia is better than OU. That is done by the committee on the seeding show at season's end when they factor in their subjectivity using their eye test. Meanwhile you earn your ranking on the field of play by who and where play especially ranked teams.

Still waiting. "What do you propose to rectify what you think is unfair about the scheduling? Who do you suggest should be ranked ahead of the Pac 12 and SEC teams? Who is playing more of the better teams than those schools presently ranked in the top 25". No answers no argument.

I have told you, over-and-over. Show some evidence that the tendency of SEC teams not to venture outside the south or play anyone has any effect on their rpi. You have yet to do that.

You can't say that Georgia has played six road games against top 25 teams unless you can verify, independently, that these SEC teams against whom they played, merit their inclusion in a top 25. Until they play on the road (out of conference, against good teams), you can't.

I'm not comparing OU to anything. We haven't played as tough of a schedule as we did last year. But, Georgia has done nothing of merit, outside the conference.

The Pac12 may actually have some good teams. A bit of that is in question since they have about five or six that are highly-ranked, while the rest are in the same category as Texas Tech or Iowa State. We have yet to see how they do when faced with playoff competition. It's been a while since they got there.

But, I do not think the SEC has 11 of the top 21. They don't have that type of credentials.

 

[SoonerSpock]

I have told you, over-and-over. Show some evidence that the tendency of SEC teams not to venture outside the south or play anyone has any effect on their rpi. You have yet to do that.

You can't say that Georgia has played six road games against top 25 teams unless you can verify, independently, that these SEC teams against whom they played, merit their inclusion in a top 25. Until they play on the road (out of conference, against good teams), you can't.

I'm not comparing OU to anything. We haven't played as tough of a schedule as we did last year. But, Georgia has done nothing of merit, outside the conference.

The Pac12 may actually have some good teams. A bit of that is in question since they have about five or six that are highly-ranked, while the rest are in the same category as Texas Tech or Iowa State. We have yet to see how they do when faced with playoff competition. It's been a while since they got there.

But, I do not think the SEC has 11 of the top 21. They don't have that type of credentials.

Not my job to show evidence. What teams should replace what ranked SEC teams? The rpi system is in place the onus is on you to show that the system is not effectively working. As published it makes allowances for SOS and location of games played. You trying to show the SEC seldom leave the south during the early season is like trying to show Pac 12 teams never leaving the West Coast. Or better yet how about Texas and Baylor starting their seasons in Texas. Just like SEC A&M does.

All softball conferences play February tournaments through out CA, AZ, FL, GA, LA, MS, AL and Texas with larger attendance figures because of the popularity there. The whorns played their first 10 games in Austin, TX. Baylor played 6 of their first 10 games in Texas going to Mississippi for the other 4. A&M played their first nine games at College Station. Amazingly each of those states have college softball teams that support their local tournaments. They ignore what Syb wants or any other subjective opinion until the final seeding. Your complaint is against the computer because it does not think like you. The you it what they are attempting to eliminate.

It is not a conference issue it is a weather issue related to location in February. Duh. As soon as weather permitted. Don't forget the Sooners played 10 consecutive non-conference games in Norman.

You partially answered question 1 but continue to avoid questions 2 and 3 which should be easy for you to answer if you had an answer. "What do you propose to rectify what you think is unfair about the scheduling? Who do you suggest should be ranked ahead of the Pac 12 and SEC teams? Who is playing more of the better teams than those schools presently ranked in the top 25". No answers no argument.


http://texassports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=385

http://www.baylorbears.com/sports/w-softbl/sched/bay-w-softbl-sched.html

 

[TulsaWorld]

Sooners take 26-game winning streak into weekend series against Kansas

Oklahoma

Record: 35-2, 9-0 in Big 12

Looking ahead: Kansas visits OU for a three-game series this weekend. Games are on Friday (6:30 p.m.), Saturday (5 p.m.) and Sunday (noon). OU will play at Tulsa at 6 p.m. Tuesday.

Link

 

[sybarite]

Not my job to show evidence. What teams should replace what ranked SEC teams? The rpi system is in place the onus is on you to show that the system is not effectively working. As published it makes allowances for SOS and location of games played. You trying to show the SEC seldom leave the south during the early season is like trying to show Pac 12 teams never leaving the West Coast. Or better yet how about Texas and Baylor starting their seasons in Texas. Just like SEC A&M does.

All softball conferences play February tournaments through out CA, AZ, FL, GA, LA, MS, AL and Texas with larger attendance figures because of the popularity there. The whorns played their first 10 games in Austin, TX. Baylor played 6 of their first 10 games in Texas going to Mississippi for the other 4. A&M played their first nine games at College Station. Amazingly each of those states have college softball teams that support their local tournaments. They ignore what Syb wants or any other subjective opinion until the final seeding. Your complaint is against the computer because it does not think like you. The you it what they are attempting to eliminate.

It is not a conference issue it is a weather issue related to location in February. Duh. As soon as weather permitted. Don't forget the Sooners played 10 consecutive non-conference games in Norman.

You partially answered question 1 but continue to avoid questions 2 and 3 which should be easy for you to answer if you had an answer. "What do you propose to rectify what you think is unfair about the scheduling? Who do you suggest should be ranked ahead of the Pac 12 and SEC teams? Who is playing more of the better teams than those schools presently ranked in the top 25". No answers no argument.


http://texassports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=385

http://www.baylorbears.com/sports/w-softbl/sched/bay-w-softbl-sched.html

Sorry. Not my job to convince you. I stated my position. I don't believe that the rpi reflects, adequately, if at all, the road/home disparity. I figure it is up to them to sell the public on their system. There is some doubt.

It is also not my concern who is ranked or not. I stated my position that I do not accept the legitimacy of their rankings. I did not specify who should or should not be ranked. They want public support. Earn it.

I didn't even say that I supported the ranking of Texas. They play in these states because it is too cold to play in Minnesota in all probability, not because of popularity. Texas is not the hotbed that California is. I don't care whether it is a Pac 12 team, Big12 team, or SEC team. Get on the road and prove yourself. The two conferences most guilty are the SEC and Pac12. They tend to stay at home or in their region. Pac12 probably got away with it because they had the absolute power for the first forty years or so. I think Michigan and OU were the only two non-west coast teams to win the title until Bama with Traina, and that is recent.

Make the formula reflect home/road schedule. Another case in point:

Florida

USF-Wilson Demarini Tournament---Tampa, FL
9 Illinois State 0
2 Michigan 0
11 Georgia State 0
6 UAB 0
14 USF 3

9 North Florida 0 Gainesville, FL

4 Louisiana 0 Lafayette, LA
9 Louisiana 0 Lafayette, LA
3 Louisiana 4 Lafayette, LA

6 Oakland 2 Gainesville, FL
10 Oakland 0 Gainesville, FL

Aquafina Invitational Gainesville, FL
7 Maryland 2
10 Illinois State 1
12 Maryland 0
8 Iowa State 0
3 Iowa State 0
8 Georgia Southern 0

Judi Garman Classic Fullerton, CA
13 Loyola Marymount 0
10 Cal Fullerton 0
Michigan State cancelled
Charlotte cancelled
4 Baylor 0

9 USF 0 Gainesville, FL
9 FIU 0 Gainesville, FL
0 FIU 5 Gainesville, FL LOSS
18 Hampton 0 Gainesville, FL
2 Jacksonville 1 Gainesville, FL
7 Hampton 0 Gainesville, FL
4 Jacksonville 0 Gainesville, FL

0 UCF 1 Orlando, Fl LOSS
1 Florida State 4 Tallahassee, FL LOSS

8 Florida State
15 Baylor
24 Louisiana
28 Michigan
39 South Florida
58 Georgia State
59 Iowa State
60 UCF
70 FIU
83 Cal Fullerton
90 Illinois State
98 North Florida
127 Jacksonville State
137 Maryland
160 Jacksonville
199 Oakland

5 neutral site games
3 at Louisiana
20 in Florida (18 at home)
Losses in Florida to 8, 60, and 70?

Show me how they should be ranked highly given this schedule.

 

[SoonerSpock]

Sorry. Not my job to convince you. I stated my position. I don't believe that the rpi reflects, adequately, if at all, the road/home disparity. I figure it is up to them to sell the public on their system. There is some doubt.

It is also not my concern who is ranked or not. I stated my position that I do not accept the legitimacy of their rankings. I did not specify who should or should not be ranked. They want public support. Earn it.

I didn't even say that I supported the ranking of Texas. They play in these states because it is too cold to play in Minnesota in all probability, not because of popularity. Texas is not the hotbed that California is. I don't care whether it is a Pac 12 team, Big12 team, or SEC team. Get on the road and prove yourself. The two conferences most guilty are the SEC and Pac12. They tend to stay at home or in their region. Pac12 probably got away with it because they had the absolute power for the first forty years or so. I think Michigan and OU were the only two non-west coast teams to win the title until Bama with Traina, and that is recent.

Make the formula reflect home/road schedule. Another case in point:

Florida

USF-Wilson Demarini Tournament---Tampa, FL
9 Illinois State 0
2 Michigan 0
11 Georgia State 0
6 UAB 0
14 USF 3

9 North Florida 0 Gainesville, FL

4 Louisiana 0 Lafayette, LA
9 Louisiana 0 Lafayette, LA
3 Louisiana 4 Lafayette, LA

6 Oakland 2 Gainesville, FL
10 Oakland 0 Gainesville, FL

Aquafina Invitational Gainesville, FL
7 Maryland 2
10 Illinois State 1
12 Maryland 0
8 Iowa State 0
3 Iowa State 0
8 Georgia Southern 0

Judi Garman Classic Fullerton, CA
13 Loyola Marymount 0
10 Cal Fullerton 0
Michigan State cancelled
Charlotte cancelled
4 Baylor 0

9 USF 0 Gainesville, FL
9 FIU 0 Gainesville, FL
0 FIU 5 Gainesville, FL LOSS
18 Hampton 0 Gainesville, FL
2 Jacksonville 1 Gainesville, FL
7 Hampton 0 Gainesville, FL
4 Jacksonville 0 Gainesville, FL

0 UCF 1 Orlando, Fl LOSS
1 Florida State 4 Tallahassee, FL LOSS

8 Florida State
15 Baylor
24 Louisiana
28 Michigan
39 South Florida
58 Georgia State
59 Iowa State
60 UCF
70 FIU
83 Cal Fullerton
90 Illinois State
98 North Florida
127 Jacksonville State
137 Maryland
160 Jacksonville
199 Oakland

5 neutral site games
3 at Louisiana
20 in Florida (18 at home)
Losses in Florida to 8, 60, and 70?

Show me how they should be ranked highly given this schedule.

Typical Syb speak in half truths. You forgot to mention Florida has also played 12 top 25 games: #5 Georgia 3 road games, A&M 3 home games, #18 Alabama 3 home games and #20 Kentucky 3 road games. Omissions are your style.

I am curious, does suddenly a dozen games against top 25 competition not count because they are in the SEC but OU's 7 games against Arizona, ASU, South Carolina and Baylor supersedes the gators 18 games against similar competition? Do we forget that #1 Washington, #2 Oregon, #3 ASU and #4 UCLA all play 3 game series against each other? I think not!

OU's sweep of Baylor was outstanding as was Florida's sweep of Kentucky an A&M.

Sorry Syb, Florida playing Georgia counts just like the limited list you presented. Ditto for Kentucky, Alabama and A&M. Yes 13 top 25 wins counts more than 6 top 25 wins. Learn to tell the whole story and your position will have more validity. Speak in half truths and and your credibility will remain nil.

 

[sybarite]

Typical Syb speak in half truths. You forgot to mention Florida has also played 12 top 25 games: #5 Georgia 3 road games, A&M 3 home games, #18 Alabama 3 home games and #20 Kentucky 3 road games. Omissions are your style.

I am curious, does suddenly a dozen games against top 25 competition not count because they are in the SEC but OU's 7 games against Arizona, ASU, South Carolina and Baylor supersedes the gators 18 games against similar competition? Do we forget that #1 Washington, #2 Oregon, #3 ASU and #4 UCLA all play 3 game series against each other? I think not!

OU's sweep of Baylor was outstanding as was Florida's sweep of Kentucky an A&M.

Sorry Syb, Florida playing Georgia counts just like the limited list you presented. Ditto for Kentucky, Alabama and A&M. Yes 13 top 25 wins counts more than 6 top 25 wins. Learn to tell the whole story and your position will have more validity. Speak in half truths and and your credibility will remain nil.

Don't insults generally mean you are defeated?

If you didn't notice, I had not compared OU to anyone or made any statement about OU's rpi this year. I exhibited non-conference schedules for a couple of teams and asked how that entitled them to a high ranking since they are almost entirely at home and against rather mediocre opposition. Once you accept that this mediocrity is superior, playing against other SEC teams who also played weak schedules at home suddenly gives you a high rpi.

Don't buy it. Do you?

 

[SoonerSpock]

Don't insults generally mean you are defeated?

If you didn't notice, I had not compared OU to anyone or made any statement about OU's rpi this year. I exhibited non-conference schedules for a couple of teams and asked how that entitled them to a high ranking since they are almost entirely at home and against rather mediocre opposition. Once you accept that this mediocrity is superior, playing against other SEC teams who also played weak schedules at home suddenly gives you a high rpi.

Don't buy it. Do you?

For certain playing quality SEC and Pac 12 conference teams is more difficult than playing weak B1G, ACC and Big 12 teams. You think of the SEC as weak but if you look at the last 5 years and the teams from each conference that made the Final Four the count is SEC-10, Big 12-5, Pac 12-4 and B1G 1. The count for the finals is SEC-6, Big 12-3 and B1G-1.

Clearly the level of play in the SEC is confirmed by WCWS results. Were it not for OU the SEC would have won the last 6 nattys. It is what it is. Prior to 2012 it was all Pac12.

https://www.ncaa.com/history/softball/d1

 

[sybarite]

For certain playing quality SEC and Pac 12 conference teams is more difficult than playing weak B1G, ACC and Big 12 teams. You think of the SEC as weak but if you look at the last 5 years and the teams from each conference that made the Final Four the count is SEC-10, Big 12-5, Pac 12-4 and B1G 1. The count for the finals is SEC-6, Big 12-3 and B1G-1.

Clearly the level of play in the SEC is confirmed by WCWS results. Were it not for OU the SEC would have won the last 6 nattys. It is what it is. Prior to 2012 it was all Pac12.

https://www.ncaa.com/history/softball/d1

You can't really say that unless you can use non-conference games to define a level of accomplishment. This year, the Big Twelve is obviously down. It is a case of OU and nobody. But, has anyone in the SEC stepped up? Is it as good as it has been? I think it has been a bit overrated, but there is little evidence that the SEC has some high performers this year.

Ole Miss (anything here?)
http://www.olemisssports.com/sports/w-softbl/sched/ole-w-softbl-sched.html
Mississippi State can't beat anyone other than pushovers (lost to Drake), lost three to Arkansas who lost to Wichita (not a bad loss).
South Carolina may be the best down there. We'll have to see how it plays out. Tennessee did a lot of early bragging before SC swept them.

I don't know that Mississippi State and Mississippi are any better than Iowa State or Texas, maybe OSU. We are only ten months away from a rather unheralded team from OSU almost taking out Florida in Florida.

The bottom of the Pac 12 is about like the bottom of the Big 12. But, it seems that if anyone is to beat OU, it will be from the Pac 12.

 

[scrybe]

For certain playing quality SEC and Pac 12 conference teams is more difficult than playing weak B1G, ACC and Big 12 teams. You think of the SEC as weak but if you look at the last 5 years and the teams from each conference that made the Final Four the count is SEC-10, Big 12-5, Pac 12-4 and B1G 1. The count for the finals is SEC-6, Big 12-3 and B1G-1.

Clearly the level of play in the SEC is confirmed by WCWS results. Were it not for OU the SEC would have won the last 6 nattys. It is what it is. Prior to 2012 it was all Pac12.

https://www.ncaa.com/history/softball/d1

Has it never occurred to you that the SEC starts every season with something like 80-90 percent of its teams ranked in the Top 25? And that's before even one pitch is thrown. Then, when league play begins and these teams start beating one another, their RPI is not adversely affected, and it's simply because those losses come against teams that also have high RPI numbers and are ranked in the Top 20. I'd say that's pretty good work, if you can get it.

SEC teams (all 13 last season) making the playoffs is like a self-fulfilling prophecy. So, of course more SEC teams make it to the WCWS because, after all, they are playing each other in the Super Regionals. And when the majority of the WCWS participants come from the SEC, the odds are pretty good that at least one SEC team will be in the finals.

And, please, don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm NOT implying that there are not some good teams in the SEC. Some years, that conference has more good teams than any other league. This season, there does not, however, appear to be a single dominant team in that conference. But that league will continue to get the royal treatment by the media and, more important, the NCAA. I won't be surprised if at least 11 of the 13 SEC teams are slotted for the playoffs this year. After all, those teams' RPI will be among the best in softball. Makes me want to LOL!

 

[tycat947]

Has it never occurred to you that the SEC starts every season with something like 80-90 percent of its teams ranked in the Top 25? And that's before even one pitch is thrown. Then, when league play begins and these teams start beating one another, their RPI is not adversely affected, and it's simply because those losses come against teams that also have high RPI numbers and are ranked in the Top 20. I'd say that's pretty good work, if you can get it.

SEC teams (all 13 last season) making the playoffs is like a self-fulfilling prophecy. So, of course more SEC teams make it to the WCWS because, after all, they are playing each other in the Super Regionals. And when the majority of the WCWS participants come from the SEC, the odds are pretty good that at least one SEC team will be in the finals.

And, please, don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm NOT implying that there are not some good teams in the SEC. Some years, that conference has more good teams than any other league. This season, there does not, however, appear to be a single dominant team in that conference. But that league will continue to get the royal treatment by the media and, more important, the NCAA. I won't be surprised if at least 11 of the 13 SEC teams are slotted for the playoffs this year. After all, those teams' RPI will be among the best in softball. Makes me want to LOL!

Yes, you are correct! SEC teams start out at the top by beating all the Popcorn States, mostly home, and then maintain that position during the season since they are all ranked high in RPI and play each other.

I think PAC12 is definitely stronger at the top.

 

[SoonerSpock]

Has it never occurred to you that the SEC starts every season with something like 80-90 percent of its teams ranked in the Top 25? And that's before even one pitch is thrown. Then, when league play begins and these teams start beating one another, their RPI is not adversely affected, and it's simply because those losses come against teams that also have high RPI numbers and are ranked in the Top 20. I'd say that's pretty good work, if you can get it.

SEC teams (all 13 last season) making the playoffs is like a self-fulfilling prophecy. So, of course more SEC teams make it to the WCWS because, after all, they are playing each other in the Super Regionals. And when the majority of the WCWS participants come from the SEC, the odds are pretty good that at least one SEC team will be in the finals.

And, please, don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm NOT implying that there are not some good teams in the SEC. Some years, that conference has more good teams than any other league. This season, there does not, however, appear to be a single dominant team in that conference. But that league will continue to get the royal treatment by the media and, more important, the NCAA. I won't be surprised if at least 11 of the 13 SEC teams are slotted for the playoffs this year. After all, those teams' RPI will be among the best in softball. Makes me want to LOL!

I'll ask you the same question I asked Syb but give you a little more info. USA and ESPN have 11 SEC ranked. The RPI has 12. Aside from perhaps Missouri what SEC team should be dropped from the top 25 and replaced by whom.

The teams listed at 26-30 in the three polls are RPI (Nebraska, Ohio State, Michigan, Wichita State and OSU. USA (OSU, Hofstra, Northwestern and USF). ESPN Z(Hofstra, James Madison, OSU, Kennesaw State and Ole Miss).

If you look at these team's schedule and the results of their games the answer is easy and it does not lesson the SEC rankings. For example OSU has 12 losses which includes losses to U. Cal, Davis, Tulsa (2), ISU, Wichita State and UT, Arlington. Their quality wins are Arizona and Missouri (2).

It is easy to think there are too many SEC ranked until you look at the alternatives to replace them in the rankings. Regardless your perception only 1 or 2 SEC could be dropped from the top 25 and personally I can see only Missouri as an over ranked team. The question really becomes who should be ranked in lieu of the ranked SEC teams? That list is very short to non-existent.

 

[SoonerSpock]

You can't really say that unless you can use non-conference games to define a level of accomplishment. This year, the Big Twelve is obviously down. It is a case of OU and nobody. But, has anyone in the SEC stepped up? Is it as good as it has been? I think it has been a bit overrated, but there is little evidence that the SEC has some high performers this year.

Ole Miss (anything here?)
http://www.olemisssports.com/sports/w-softbl/sched/ole-w-softbl-sched.html
Mississippi State can't beat anyone other than pushovers (lost to Drake), lost three to Arkansas who lost to Wichita (not a bad loss).
South Carolina may be the best down there. We'll have to see how it plays out. Tennessee did a lot of early bragging before SC swept them.

I don't know that Mississippi State and Mississippi are any better than Iowa State or Texas, maybe OSU. We are only ten months away from a rather unheralded team from OSU almost taking out Florida in Florida.

The bottom of the Pac 12 is about like the bottom of the Big 12. But, it seems that if anyone is to beat OU, it will be from the Pac 12.

So now Nebraska, OSU, Missouri, Georgia and A&M are all pushovers. Only in your eyes as all of them are ranked in the top 30. ISU and Texas combined have 2 wins over top 30 teams. Simple math 5 quality wins is 2.5 times 2 quality wins.

And what does what almost happened last year have to do with what has happened this year? Nothing absolutely nothing. Using that logic OU almost got taken out last year by North Dakota State and Tulsa. The results are both OU and Florida made the finals.