Okay guys, enough is enough. You have the right to your own opinion, but you don't have the right to make up your own facts.
I challenge any of you to show where I ever stated that the Alabama coach or players were responsible for the CWS game being played under those adverse conditions. What I stated in my post was that the little display by the Alabama players during the rain delay was shameful -- and I stand by that assertion.
The lack of sportsmanship and decorum by the Alabama program is not diminished simply because a few of you want so desperately to make a few others appear to be small or petty. What happened that night in 2012 is very much like what happened a few weeks ago when the Sooners were at Waco. As you recall, the BU players lined up down one base line to try to prevent the Sooners from watching the Bears' relief pitcher take her warmups. Another example of a shameful act by a classless program.
When have you ever seen Patty Gasso instruct her players to pull anything remotely similar to the stuff I cited above? Here, let me answer that for you: You never have -- and you never will. Patty is a fierce competitor. She loves winning and she'll go to great lengths to give her team the best chance at victory. But in my opinion Patty will never abandon her class for the sake of winning a softball game.
Here is what you said, "Alabama's little display during the rain delay of the 2012 CWS game was shameful. But I suppose the Tide did what was necessary to steal a victory." Stealing a victory...ARE YOU KIDDING????
I disagree that Patti would have made the type of attempt to have the game played in the rain as Bama did. I get the impression that Patti does have a set of ethics. I can't say the same for some schools or the coaches of those schools.
I find it interesting that after Bama made a show of attempting to get hit by standing close to the plate and making no attempt to avoid a pitch, perhaps even stepping into the pitch, that the NCAA developed some rules indicating the an attempt to avoid the pitch must be made if possible.
I assume that you are both in Ames and at the national title game so that you could appropriately assess the prospects of danger.
Why not quote the entire post?
At least some of us are willing to stand by our statements and wouldn't delete our posts even if we could.
No problem:
Originally Posted by scrybe View Post
Alabama's little display during the rain delay of the 2012 CWS game was shameful. But I suppose the Tide did what was necessary to steal a victory, and ultimately the CWS title. I've had nothing but disdain for that program ever since, though maybe I should blame the NCAA officials for allowing it to happen.
You are still blaming Bama for stealing the game and the title. As an afterthought you added that the NCAA might have had something to do with it although your disdain is aimed at Bama.
I know your comprehension skills are good, except at times like these when it's more convenient to have no clue. My point, of course, was that Alabama did its best to influence the officials to keep the game going. Did that tactic work? Neither you nor I will never know. But, you're right about one thing. I do have disdain for Bama for what I still believe was a shameful act.
Do you still believe Patty would have done the same thing? If so, go ahead and say it. You can always delete the post afterwards.
I know your comprehension skills are good, except at times like these when it's more convenient to have no clue. My point, of course, was that Alabama did its best to influence the officials to keep the game going. Did that tactic work? Neither you nor I will never know. But, you're right about one thing. I do have disdain for Bama for what I still believe was a shameful act.
Do you still believe Patty would have done the same thing? If so, go ahead and say it. You can always delete the post afterwards.
Nice try at attempting to separate the fact from the generality that led to a rule change. It led to a rule change. Want to add that it involved other incidents? Fine. When did it get sufficient focus to result in action?Yours is one uninformed opinion that any changes were made to the hit batter rules because of the 2012 National Championship game. Could it have been a contributor to the rule change along with hundreds of other incidents in hundreds of other games? Absolutely. But rules are changed because of its impact on the game as a whole not just because of one game. Your inference would indicate otherwise.
But in 2012 Alabama was playing according to the rules. They did not give a damn what Syb thought was ethical. Rules are there for a reason. If they need changing you change them. Meanwhile you play according to the rules in effect. Alabama did so.
Furthermore your sense of ethics about how the game should be played is distorted from how it is really played at the higher levels. All teams make every effort to leverage the rules to their advantage at every opportunity. Having played in college, remained close to some of the programs as a donor and multiple season ticket holder OU actively practices play by the rules but do everything necessary to win. Patty included.
Their ethics as administrators, coaches and players is not going to change. Winning is how they advance their careers and accomplishments. Their are no idealist on the field. They understand the reality of what it takes to be successful at the highest competitive level.
It is stunning that you and Norm always seem to find a way to suggest that it was OU that was the guilty party. While others have stated that the committee was concerned with what happened and indicated that it would not happen again, you somehow twisted this into a Bama good, OU slacker episode. Only the two of you have accused OU of anything, and we have to come to an OU message board to find OU accused of attempting to get a game suspended while Bama was just out on the field enjoying the rain.What in the world was disgraceful about their display? I was at that game and have no love for Bama. What I saw was a team who was in the moment, didn't care about the rain but was enjoying everything about where they were. IN the meantime, OU was stuck in the dugout and complaining about the rain. I agree Bama stole all the momentum from that game, took it and ran with it to a victory. Kudos to them for taking a bad situation and turning it into something to motivate them. I like to think OU learned something from the experience".
Paige has had two outstanding games in a row.OU wins 4-0. We clinched a share of the Big 12 title. Fifth straight.
It is stunning that you and Norm always seem to find a way to suggest that it was OU that was the guilty party. While others have stated that the committee was concerned with what happened and indicated that it would not happen again, you somehow twisted this into a Bama good, OU slacker episode. Only the two of you have accused OU of anything, and we have to come to an OU message board to find OU accused of attempting to get a game suspended while Bama was just out on the field enjoying the rain.
I hope that you have been to Alabama and stood in the rain with the team as they relished the idea of playing and practicing in the rain because they are in the moment.
I did not make OU guilty of anything but they were guilty of not being able to adjust to the playing condition while the Tide took advantage of the situation. It was unfortunate for OU but it happen and we as fans should not still moan, p**s and groan four years later that Bama was unethical in their behavior. Life is not always fair. Sometimes you get good breaks and sometime you get bad breaks on the diamond.
Officiating is a human element of the game that cannot and should not be removed from the game. The human element is an integral part of the game.
The refs made a bad decision. The softball committee allowed that decision to stand. Bama beat OU enough said.
I am sorry if you cannot grasp that concept. Excuses are excuses and they are made for losers. What does that make you? You don't have to like decision, I didn't. You don't have to like the Tide. I choose to respect them for what they accomplish on the softball diamond despite their being a recent OU nemesis. It is what it is.
Did the NCAA change the rules?
Did the NCAA committee express reluctance that the game was not suspended according to the guidelines imposed by the NCAA?
I think the rules state that the refs suspend games for weather related reasons with the approval of the NCAA softball committee. That what occurred.
Did you not suggest that Alabama was living in the moment, spirits and water sprites who loved to dance and play in the rain?
Asolutely not. My only comment toward the Tide was that they ceased the moment when Keilani had control issues in the rain, gained momentum, gained the lead and won the game.
Who was it that suggested that Patti, not even a topic of discussion, would have done the same thing? What evidence have you seen to suggest that Patti abides by something other than the spirit of the game?
It was not me but I did respond to scrybe's question to me regarding Patti doing the same thing that Murphy did were the situation reversed and I said absolutely as that would have been her best opportunity to win the game within the rules of play. Patti plays by the spirit of the game. Murphy and Alabama did too in 2012. Sorry you don't get to definite the spirit of the game. The rules do. If fact you get to define nothing.
What evidence was there that Keilani was pouting in the dugout, hoping that they would suspend the game? How did the behaviors of Patti and Keilani come into the discussion? I certainly brought up neither, especially in a light to cast aspersions on the sense of fair play of either.
Beats me. I never made any comment regarding Keilani other than the rain, her spinning the ball resulted in her being unable to throw strikes. And the refs should have suspended or called the game. If you want to know the answer to your question do your own research.
You see I am accustomed to your diverting the conversation away from my points because you have no valid rebuttal to them.
Alabama won the game fair and square and was totally ethical in their effort to get a victory
My thought were the game should have been delayed but while I did not like the call I don't get to make that call. I accept we got a bad break and those that see it otherwise are crybabies that cannot accept things going their way.
Any athlete that has ever played the game understands they mopes for 2 second and move on or gets beat. Crybabies are still whining four years after the fact.
I did not make the point but answered a question saying I thought Patti would have made every effort to continue the game were her situation reversed with Murphy's which would be within the rules, spirit and ethics of the game.
So, it is totally ethical to pretend to be water sprites and love to play in the rain as a challenge to the officials to resume the game? So, it is ethical to attempt to get hit by a pitch?Alabama won the game fair and square and was totally ethical in their effort to get a victory
So, you are saying the Patti would have sought to violate the rules of the NCAA which were applicable at the time? But, you are not suggesting that she is unethical?I did not make the point but answered a question saying I thought Patti would have made every effort to continue the game were her situation reversed with Murphy's which would be within the rules, spirit and ethics of the game.
I disagree that Patti would have made the type of attempt to have the game played in the rain as Bama did. I get the impression that Patti does have a set of ethics. I can't say the same for some schools or the coaches of those schools.
I find it interesting that after Bama made a show of attempting to get hit by standing close to the plate and making no attempt to avoid a pitch, perhaps even stepping into the pitch, that the NCAA developed some rules indicating the an attempt to avoid the pitch must be made if possible.
I find it interesting that after Bama made a show of attempting to get hit by standing close to the plate and making no attempt to avoid a pitch, perhaps even stepping into the pitch, that the NCAA developed some rules indicating the an attempt to avoid the pitch must be made if possible.
Yes they changed the rule requiring an attempt for the batter to avoid being hit in the 2016-2017 rule book four years after the 2012 incident in specific incidents. Obviously the 2012 was a contributor but most definitely just one of many incidents between 2012-2015 when no attempt by the batter was necessary to advance to first base when hit by the pitcher. They most definitely did not make the change because of the one national championship game in 2012 as they allowed softball to play with the same rules of 2012 in 2013, 2014 and 2015 including the post season tournaments.
The first link notes the implementation of no avoidance by the batter. The second link notes the first change to the hit batter rule since 2012 occurring in the 2016-17 rules. Look on page 5 of the second link at "Points of Emphasis".
http://www.ncaa.com/news/softball/article/2011-06-17/rules-committee-proposes-changes
http://profastpitch.com.ismmedia.co.../STATISTICS/NCAA Softball Rules 2016-2017.pdf[/I]
I did not make the point but answered a question saying I thought Patty would have made every effort to continue the game were her situation reversed with Murphy which would be within the rules, spirit and ethics of the game.
I assume that you are both in Ames and at the national title game so that you could appropriately assess the prospects of danger.
But, I am not the one who is casting aspersions on Gasso by stating that she would have attempted to show up the umpires and officials with her little water sprite antics.Similar to your being in OKC to assess the danger as was I in 2012.