Softball

[Speedy17]

So, Speedy, do you just see Finney as a relief pitcher? Do you believe that is the way Patty saw her when she recruited her? I believe, as I am sure most do, that any player can improve; thus, I would think Finney could be more than a relief. What do you think? If she gets more control? Some players develop slower than others and if she has to make more changes than Chestnut then next year she could come back strong. Do you see her pitching, if she were more accurate, be more lie Paige's than the other pitchers.?
I guess the thing with letting Finney close a game for Paige or Lopez, whom you said will play from the beginning, could be a rest factor, plus an experience factor for Finney. Never know when someone is going to be injured or just not had a good practice so you may need to start Finney. I love the idea of
at least three good pitchers. I mean Keilani always had Michelle to back her up. That seems to me that it would be a relief to Paige to not be counted on to pitch every game or most games, especially the tough ones. I mean you want to pitch in tough situations but it has to be a relief if you have another pitcher or two who are great or very good. Also, aren't some pitchers better against some teams based on how many left or right-handed batters there are and based on if the team bunts a lot or are really good at placing it or hitting home runs? OKAY, a little long to read or answer but generally what you think about Finney, back-up for rest, her getting experience, is it possible she has the talent to be more than a back-up?
Sorry, people, I don't have anyone to talk to about this and am just learning from people here and some reading.

Patti made the statement after last season that she wanted a full blown pitching staff because that is what is happening in College Softball. She recruited two great freshmen in Jayden and Finney. She has the best pitcher in the country coming in next year with Mariah Lopez and Melanie Olmos. There is not enough games for everyone to start especially when conference season begins. Making Finney a closer, allows Patti to put her out there every game. Now I don't know that a closer in softball means 1 inning like baseball - it could be 2-3-4 innings in relief. Finney was rated the #11 player in softball last year and she had great success in HS and in the summer circuit. There is no doubt that she could start but she has been slower to get the control OU wants than Jayden. However, she has better stuff. She is tall at 6'1" and is powerful. It will be interesting to see what Patti does next year with 5 pitchers.

 

[womenssports]

We didn't do that. Fali Aviu was the DP.

Okay, I will have to go back and look because sure there was one game that we had only nine players. (unless, of course, I am wrong and then please ignore)

 

[womenssports]

Patti made the statement after last season that she wanted a full blown pitching staff because that is what is happening in College Softball. She recruited two great freshmen in Jayden and Finney. She has the best pitcher in the country coming in next year with Mariah Lopez and Melanie Olmos. There is not enough games for everyone to start especially when conference season begins. Making Finney a closer, allows Patti to put her out there every game. Now I don't know that a closer in softball means 1 inning like baseball - it could be 2-3-4 innings in relief. Finney was rated the #11 player in softball last year and she had great success in HS and in the summer circuit. There is no doubt that she could start but she has been slower to get the control OU wants than Jayden. However, she has better stuff. She is tall at 6'1" and is powerful. It will be interesting to see what Patti does next year with 5 pitchers.

Yes it will be and how the pitchers respond/like it. I am interested in seeing if Finney is able to improve to the point of an 11th ranked player. I hope she does. Also, is one type of pitcher more successful with one type of batting team vs another. I mean if batting team bunts, places ball well but not many triples or HR'S. Course it seems that some teams are better at hitting a certain pitch OR they can't hit a certain pitch, so that could make a difference as to who pitches a certain game, if our pitchers have different pitches which are their strong suit. I just don't want to lose any of our players but if you are really good, I can see wanting to play. There is the fastpitch league and now sb back in the Olympics.

 

[Speedy17]

Okay, I will have to go back and look because sure there was one game that we had only nine players. (unless, of course, I am wrong and then please ignore)

It is possible if Paige is pitching and hitting that you would not use the DP. This has not happened much this year. The MO for OU if Paige is hitting is the DP for Kelsey Arnold.

 

[Speedy17]

Yes it will be and how the pitchers respond/like it. I am interested in seeing if Finney is able to improve to the point of an 11th ranked player. I hope she does. Also, is one type of pitcher more successful with one type of batting team vs another. I mean if batting team bunts, places ball well but not many triples or HR'S. Course it seems that some teams are better at hitting a certain pitch OR they can't hit a certain pitch, so that could make a difference as to who pitches a certain game, if our pitchers have different pitches which are their strong suit. I just don't want to lose any of our players but if you are really good, I can see wanting to play. There is the fastpitch league and now sb back in the Olympics.

Just like any other sport, players want to play. It is a big commitment on their part. Patti has always managed it well with a lot of role players who have stuck around. Of course, OU had the Whitney situation this year. Playing time is at a premium.

As for pitching matchup, it is scouting reports and coaching. For instance, last year, Texas could not hit Paige at all. This year that hit her around pretty well but still lost. The scouting reports present a plan to face every batter and every pitcher.

I don't think they have the option to go pro a this point. There is not a single example of a player leaving early in softball. I know Monica Abbott signed a !M contract over 5 years but the money is there yet. However, the sport is growing. Keilani signed in US and Japan but the big contract is in Japan. As for the Olympics, that is an interesting situation. You have Team USA and ASA has control and tried to get huge commitments for players. However, the best players are in NPF. It will be interesting what they do before the 2020 Olympics - NPF or ASA Team USA. I bet they go with the best- NPF. It will be the best of the best.

 

[SoonerNorm]

I presume a closer in softball will be used in a similar capacity to a closer in baseball. If so, a closer generally only pitches an inning or two. They come in when you have a lead in a close game. Another name for a closer is a stopper. They often have a "nasty" pitch or two that is almost unhitable. They have to throw strikes and get hitters out. They absolutely cannot give up walks.

I point out all of this to say, Finney will have to consistently throw strikes while moving the ball around, change speeds, etc to sit hitters down in order. Right now, she has a good fastball as well as a good change up. She must improve her control, hit the corners, challenge hitters, while being completely dominant.

Another factor is, a closer spends a lot of time in the bullpen but may not enter the game especially with a good lead. That means the closer has to stay ready but have the mental makeup that they don't allow themselves to get down if they go a few games without seeing the mound.

I'm not saying Finney cannot be a great closer. I just think she has some things to work on before Patty can completely trust her in that capacity.

 

[scrybe]

Without knowing which Big 12 teams beat which SEC teams, where the games were played, etc, that fact really doesn't tell us much. All of this will soon work itself out when the cream rises to the top as we get closer to the CWS.

So, what you're saying is, the SEC will most likely win any postseason matchups against the Big 12.

That might very well be the case.

For informational purposes, the Big 12's wins were over Alabama (1), Tennessee (1), Ole Miss (2), Mississippi State (1) and Arkansas (5).

The losses were to Missouri (1), Tennessee (1), Auburn (1), Kentucky (1), LSU (2) and Texas A&M (3).

 

[womenssports]

Just like any other sport, players want to play. It is a big commitment on their part. Patti has always managed it well with a lot of role players who have stuck around. Of course, OU had the Whitney situation this year. Playing time is at a premium.

As for pitching matchup, it is scouting reports and coaching. For instance, last year, Texas could not hit Paige at all. This year that hit her around pretty well but still lost. The scouting reports present a plan to face every batter and every pitcher.

I don't think they have the option to go pro a this point. There is not a single example of a player leaving early in softball. I know Monica Abbott signed a !M contract over 5 years but the money is there yet. However, the sport is growing. Keilani signed in US and Japan but the big contract is in Japan. As for the Olympics, that is an interesting situation. You have Team USA and ASA has control and tried to get huge commitments for players. However, the best players are in NPF. It will be interesting what they do before the 2020 Olympics - NPF or ASA Team USA. I bet they go with the best- NPF. It will be the best of the best.

I guess I wasn't clear re the bold. What I was thinking re playing time and whether to transfer was 1) if you want to play pro then you need playing time in college and the same thing regarding the Olympics. I just do not see some pitchers wanting to stay if they are actually good enough to get significant playing time in another good program. Guess we will see. Thanks for response.

 

[Speedy17]

I guess I wasn't clear re the bold. What I was thinking re playing time and whether to transfer was 1) if you want to play pro then you need playing time in college and the same thing regarding the Olympics. I just do not see some pitchers wanting to stay if they are actually good enough to get significant playing time in another good program. Guess we will see. Thanks for response.

It is interesting. The only transfers that I know to or from OU fit the categories that you mention. Shelby Pendley was the starting SS and hit 20 homers at Arizona before transferring to OU. Her last game at Arizona was a loss to OU in the Supers in Norman. Tori Nirschl was an everyday starter at Pittsburgh and All ACC but hasn't been able to crack the lineup at OU. Of course, she has a torn ACL this year and is doing what she can to help.

Going the other way, Erica Sampson played well at OU in a reserve role but transferred to Tulsa and started virtually every game. Sierra Hughes did the same thing at Tulsa.

OU also has had players leave the team when they didn't get playing time. Whitney Ellis Montgomery is a good example this year. Taylor Hodges, Leslie Miller, and Destinie Lookout left before their senior year.

The real challenge for Gasso is to find playing time for a ton of really good players. However, if they are NPF or Team USA good then they find the lineup.

 

[scrybe]

Speedy: I never got the real skinny on exactly what led to Whitney's departure from the program. I wasn't able to devote my full attention to softball early in the season (too wrapped up in OU basketball), so the news that Whitney had called it quits caught me off guard.

Had Wodach already won the role as starting catcher, thus prompting Montgomery to quit? Or was it simply a matter of Whitney being a newlywed and wanting to spend more time with her hubby? I would really like someone to shed a little more light on that whole chapter for me, and I believe you may be just the one to do so.

As a footnote, I'd add that Lea has certainly not disappointed in her role as catcher. I didn't previously think anyone could be as good as Whitney in throwing out runners and handling the staff/game. But the Sooners have not skipped a beat with Wodach behind the plate.

 

[sybarite]

Tennessee restored a little order in the SEC with a 5-1 elimination of South Carolina. LSU, who has lost three times to Kentucky in Baton Rouge without scoring a single run, scored 3 to beat Kentucky, 3-1. They lost in Baton Rouge, 1-0, 2-0, and 3-0. Tennessee plays LSU tomorrow in the semi-finals.

Tonight, Florida gets Ole Miss, and Auburn gets another chance at Bama.

 

[Speedy17]

Speedy: I never got the real skinny on exactly what led to Whitney's departure from the program. I wasn't able to devote my full attention to softball early in the season (too wrapped up in OU basketball), so the news that Whitney had called it quits caught me off guard.

Had Wodach already won the role as starting catcher, thus prompting Montgomery to quit? Or was it simply a matter of Whitney being a newlywed and wanting to spend more time with her hubby? I would really like someone to shed a little more light on that whole chapter for me, and I believe you may be just the one to do so.

As a footnote, I'd add that Lea has certainly not disappointed in her role as catcher. I didn't previously think anyone could be as good as Whitney in throwing out runners and handling the staff/game. But the Sooners have not skipped a beat with Wodach behind the plate.

I think it is a combination of what you just stated. There is no doubt that playing softball is a big effort and commitment. For Gasso, she wanted to have the best offense on the field and Whitney's hitting had dropped off. At the same time, Lea was lighting it up. Gasso has Fali Aviu and she is looking for a place to Shea Knighton. The answer was Shay at 1B which moved Kady. Now she needed a place for Kady which was back to LF. Now where do you play Lea which ended up as catcher. This results in less playing time for Whitney so to her, the commitment to softball without being the starter at C and having the new husband and life was not worth it.

OU has never said anything officially except that Whitney would not be returning. I think Wodach and Whitney started splitting time at Fullerton. She quit the next week. Strange thing about that situation is that OU has been on an absolute roll 24-1 playing .960 softball. With the only loss being on what I called Black Saturday in Houston at the Final Four.

 

[sybarite]

Shay is one of ten finalists for Freshman of the Year.

 

[womenssports]

It is possible if Paige is pitching and hitting that you would not use the DP. This has not happened much this year. The MO for OU if Paige is hitting is the DP for Kelsey Arnold.

I noticed that but she has had a good offensive year. I also notice
that if the DP is for the pitcher that often someone pinch hits once for
Arnold. I guess we have some good batters and we need to get as many people involved and getting experience as possible.

 

[womenssports]

It is possible if Paige is pitching and hitting that you would not use the DP. This has not happened much this year. The MO for OU if Paige is hitting is the DP for Kelsey Arnold.

I noticed that but she has had a good offensive year. I also notice
that if the DP is for the pitcher that often someone pinch hits once for
Arnold. I guess we have some good batters and we need to get as many people involved and getting experience as possible.

 

[womenssports]

Shay is one of ten finalists for Freshman of the Year.

Good for her. A terrific player, good attitude as far as what she says regarding team. And sure just a good attitude as a player but I don't have any knowledge of that, but do like her in interviews.

 

[Speedy17]

I noticed that but she has had a good offensive year. I also notice
that if the DP is for the pitcher that often someone pinch hits once for
Arnold. I guess we have some good batters and we need to get as many people involved and getting experience as possible.

Gasso routinely pinch hits for Arnold if there are runners on base because Arnold is a slapper and she would rather have a regular style hitter with RBI power in. You can only pinch hit once for a player so if she does it early then Arnold will bat the rest of the game. She also puts Arnold back in immediately to run for the pinch hitter.

 

[womenssports]

Gasso routinely pinch hits for Arnold if there are runners on base because Arnold is a slapper and she would rather have a regular style hitter with RBI power in. You can only pinch hit once for a player so if she does it early then Arnold will bat the rest of the game. She also puts Arnold back in immediately to run for the pinch hitter.

Yes, I knew a person could only be substituted for once, except for the DP/FLEX rule is a little different; plus knew the pitcher and catcher could have a pinch runner every time they got on base and was not subject to the one substitution rule. And realized Arnold was usually put back in to run.
And really, I almost said maybe Patti put someone in for Arnold when they needed power. I am getting to know this team a little better and also the reasons they sub as they do, etc. One thing, I thought Arnold had become more than a slap hitter this year, though I could still see a PH for her in certain situations where you had a hitter who was more often a power hitter and depending upon the outs, base runners and all. I just was of the impression that Kelsey was better at offense this year than a couple of players so had wondered why she was the player for which we had a dp when it wasn't for the pitcher. However, can come up with many scenarios as to why it has been Kelsey. I need to look at the stats of the players when on offense.

I still do not understand why people are designating Finney to a closer role. I mean she could definitely get more control over the ball by next season and then it seems like she would be more than a closer, UNLESS Patti just wants a closer and with Paige and the one freshman who is so highly touted coming in, that she thinks that would be her best role. SO, in baseball, because it has been said that Patti wants (and I guess her softball coaches are doing this) a full-blown pitching staff? I should have asked exactly what that meant when I started addressing the pitchers? Does it mean more pitchers, with different strengths and does it automatically include a closer?
(I am going to quit asking you so many questions, but at least, I see I am not the only one sending questions your way.) Also, I would be interested in others opinions, it just seems like this is Speedy's bailiwick though I know many of you are informed regarding the game of softball.

 

[Speedy17]

Yes, I knew a person could only be substituted for once, except for the DP/FLEX rule is a little different; plus knew the pitcher and catcher could have a pinch runner every time they got on base and was not subject to the one substitution rule. And realized Arnold was usually put back in to run.
And really, I almost said maybe Patti put someone in for Arnold when they needed power. I am getting to know this team a little better and also the reasons they sub as they do, etc. One thing, I thought Arnold had become more than a slap hitter this year, though I could still see a PH for her in certain situations where you had a hitter who was more often a power hitter and depending upon the outs, base runners and all. I just was of the impression that Kelsey was better at offense this year than a couple of players so had wondered why she was the player for which we had a dp when it wasn't for the pitcher. However, can come up with many scenarios as to why it has been Kelsey. I need to look at the stats of the players when on offense.

I still do not understand why people are designating Finney to a closer role. I mean she could definitely get more control over the ball by next season and then it seems like she would be more than a closer, UNLESS Patti just wants a closer and with Paige and the one freshman who is so highly touted coming in, that she thinks that would be her best role. SO, in baseball, because it has been said that Patti wants (and I guess her softball coaches are doing this) a full-blown pitching staff? I should have asked exactly what that meant when I started addressing the pitchers? Does it mean more pitchers, with different strengths and does it automatically include a closer?
(I am going to quit asking you so many questions, but at least, I see I am not the only one sending questions your way.) Also, I would be interested in others opinions, it just seems like this is Speedy's bailiwick though I know many of you are informed regarding the game of softball.

Last year, Gasso tried to make Kelsey a lefty slap hitter and gave up the project in Lubbock against Texas Tech and she hit a couple of homers from the right side. I think she has 7 RBIs this whole season but she is hitting over .400 but slapping. On the other hand, Macey is hitting close to .400, Tori is hitting well so it is not like they are putting players with lower averages in just ones with more power and RBI capability.

As for the pitching staff thing, I think Patti got caught after the great 2013 team with little pitching. She got Kelsey who won an amazing 38 games in 2014 but didn't have any of the Oklahoma pitchers come through. I am talking Taylor Dewberry Hodges and Leslie Miller so she had to make Shelby Pendley a pitcher. Then last year, OU went to LSU and they had a ton of pitchers. You look at the comments on this board about Florida - they have multiple pitchers as does Tennessee. This pitching staff thing is becoming a big deal because you don't want to wear out your ace over the season. I think it is a great idea if you can pull it off. The thing is with next year - Paige is #1 because she has been there and done it then you have Mariah Lopez who is the real deal. So what are you going to do with Finney? With her velocity and stuff, she will be an awesome closer.

 

[SoonerMGB56]

I think it is a combination of what you just stated. There is no doubt that playing softball is a big effort and commitment. For Gasso, she wanted to have the best offense on the field and Whitney's hitting had dropped off. At the same time, Lea was lighting it up. Gasso has Fali Aviu and she is looking for a place to Shea Knighton. The answer was Shay at 1B which moved Kady. Now she needed a place for Kady which was back to LF. Now where do you play Lea which ended up as catcher. This results in less playing time for Whitney so to her, the commitment to softball without being the starter at C and having the new husband and life was not worth it.

I've been reading in this forum for quite some time, but don't really post. However, on the Whitney (Ellis) Montgomery talk, I thought I'd interject another point of view. It seems that there are many who feel Whitney left because her playing time was going to be reduced.

First, Whitney never impressed me as the sort that would just quit, because she might see some reduction in playing time. She always impressed me as a team first young lady. Secondly, I'm not sure that Wodach's offensive growth would have affected Whitney all that much.

Certainly Coach Gasso would have maneuvered the lineup to get Wodach in nearly every game, based on her early season performances. But if you look at the stats, Whitney was batting .364 at the time of her departure. And Whitney was potentially the best defensive catcher ever at OU, and the best in the country the last two years or more. If you look at the steal stats, teams have attempted to steal more than twice as much on OU this year, as last. Last year teams only attempted to steal 9 times on Whitney and she threw out 7. Wodach has substantially improved as the year has gone on, and is now throwing out about 50%, and OU is still 2nd in the country in fewest attempts, and in throwing out runners, but Wodach is not as good as Whitney. Further, Wodach has about 8 times as many passed balls as Whitney every had.

When you take the defensive prowess and the fact she was batting .364 at the time of her departure, I don't think Wodach would have cut into Whitney's playing time all that much. Rather I think had Wodach continued hitting like she did early, it would have affected Aviu most, and Self to a lesser extent. It is likely Wodach would have been DP most days, with Aviu fighting for PT with Self other than days Wodach got a spot start at catcher.

In light of the above, it is my suspicion that Whitney's departure had little to nothing to do with what was going on on the field, but rather something very personal.

Just my humble opionion.