Stevie Clark - Update

[jmizzy4ou]

Pretty sure Kendrick Lamar will not be seen as a Thug.

Kendrick Lamar is a well known west coast gangbanger from a large blood gang. He is becoming very popular & seems to have the ability to cross genres & color lines like rappers like jay Z, LL, & Eminem did. Not sure what his worldwide perception is/will be, but either most people relate hip hop to the thug culture, & rightfully so IMO.

 

[NickZepp]

Kendrick Lamar is a well known west coast gangbanger from a large blood gang. He is becoming very popular & seems to have the ability to cross genres & color lines like rappers like jay Z, LL, & Eminem did. Not sure what his worldwide perception is/will be, but either most people relate hip hop to the thug culture, & rightfully so IMO.

Not sure he was ever affiliated with a gang according to everything I've read. Not just based on his music but also based on every interview I've ever heard/read on him. He's said repeatedly he wasn't in a gang. He's talked about the gang culture in his home town, and his family was involved in gangs. His dad was in a gang and sold drugs. But Lamar is unique in that he seems to have more of an anti-drug and even in his biggest song to date and anti-alcohol message. Everything I have read says Lamar was not in a gang.

 

[jmizzy4ou]

Not sure he was ever affiliated with a gang according to everything I've read. Not just based on his music but also based on every interview I've ever heard/read on him. He's said repeatedly he wasn't in a gang. He's talked about the gang culture in his home town, and his family was involved in gangs. His dad was in a gang and sold drugs. But Lamar is unique in that he seems to have more of an anti-drug and even in his biggest song to date and anti-alcohol message. Everything I have read says Lamar was not in a gang.

I think u are right. I must have had him mixed up with another new rapper. I'm getting too old to keep up with hip hop like I use to.

I love Kendrick Lamar's music/style. I appreciate any rapper who has more to say than his net worth, his hoes, guns, and what he drinks/smokes.

It is interesting because I googled Lamar, and the 1st article was one he did last year, where he was complaining about people ASSuming he is a thug/gangbanger/etc because he's from Compton, and does hip hop......


Good stuff Nick, I stand corrected.

 

[NMSooner'80]

FWIW - when I was in the Ardmore school system (Grades 7-12 were from 1970-76), we had plenty of white thugs. Guess semantics have really changed in 38 years.

P.S. - we were also lucky than many of the white thugs transferred to Dickson or dropped out altogether.

 

[NickZepp]

I've always thought thug was more like muscle in a group. Union Thugs, Mobs/mafias had their thugs. I understand why people associate it with gangs and black neighborhoods. But it isn't as race exclusive like the N-word is.

Sent from my galaxy s2

 

[DenverSooner]

National trends & countless experts disagree with u....

There is always someone writing a paper on things like this. It doesn't make that person correct. Why not write a paper entitled Richard Sherman doesn't even know what the word professional means.

Sherman acted like a fool. When he got called on it, he wanted to turn it on those that called him on his actions and claimed racism. Sherman should be mocked, ridiculed and scorned. He is so far from a professional it is not even funny. Professionals act like Peyton Manning or Barry Sanders not Richard Sherman. Unfortunately in sports you see far too many Shermans and our society is so pathetic we reward horrible people like Sherman with endorsement deals.

 

[Tundrasooner]

There is always someone writing a paper on things like this. It doesn't make that person correct. Why not write a paper entitled Richard Sherman doesn't even know what the word professional means.

Sherman acted like a fool. When he got called on it, he wanted to turn it on those that called him on his actions and claimed racism. Sherman should be mocked, ridiculed and scorned. He is so far from a professional it is not even funny. Professionals act like Peyton Manning or Barry Sanders not Richard Sherman. Unfortunately in sports you see far too many Shermans and our society is so pathetic we reward horrible people like Sherman with endorsement deals.

Agree

 

[SoonerTraveler]

... Maybe I'm not making my point clear. Words definitely take on new meaning. My point is the word Thug has done exactly that, & because a few older posters don't use it as such, doesn't mean it's not so....

I am getting the picture now. Your statement strikes me as very condescending towards older people. Since people are older, their views don't have as much meaning, or worse, they are old so who cares about their views. Only your point of view is the correct one, because it is based on your youthful personal experience.

Different views based on the real world personal experience of older people are not tolerated. It is called racist and bigoted.

 

[Sooner04]

I'm surprised this is still an ongoing debate, as I've never given thought to the word THUG having any sort of racist connotation. It was just a word, and it was just a word that was thrown out a lot. Heck, growing up in Ardmore, for every time I heard the N-word uttered by a bigoted elder I heard it TEN times from my black classmates. It's all about what you're subjected to on a daily basis. Skyvue, living in NYC, gets much more exposure to the ACLU/PC debates than I would have growing up in LA (Lovely Ardmore).

The Richard Sherman thing was infuriating, mainly because nobody would come out and address the elephant in the room; that being Sherman, while extremely talented and skilled, was a loudmouth, unprofessional clown. If you don't want to be caught in the media firestorm, then don't add fuel to the fire. My wife doesn't watch much professional football, and she certainly had no dog in the fight in the NFC Championship Game, but as soon as Sherman opened his mouth after the game she turned to me and said, "I hope Seattle gets killed in the Super Bowl".

Does that mean my wife is racist? No. It means she doesn't suffer the egotistical ramblings of an asshole like Richard Sherman. If you're going to go out and rant and rave like that, you better be ready for the snap judgments that follow.

In closing, beat Kansas.

 

[BigTime]

You guys worry too much about Stevie Clark and thugs.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

I'm surprised this is still an ongoing debate, as I've never given thought to the word THUG having any sort of racist connotation. It was just a word, and it was just a word that was thrown out a lot. Heck, growing up in Ardmore, for every time I heard the N-word uttered by a bigoted elder I heard it TEN times from my black classmates. It's all about what you're subjected to on a daily basis. Skyvue, living in NYC, gets much more exposure to the ACLU/PC debates than I would have growing up in LA (Lovely Ardmore).

The Richard Sherman thing was infuriating, mainly because nobody would come out and address the elephant in the room; that being Sherman, while extremely talented and skilled, was a loudmouth, unprofessional clown. If you don't want to be caught in the media firestorm, then don't add fuel to the fire. My wife doesn't watch much professional football, and she certainly had no dog in the fight in the NFC Championship Game, but as soon as Sherman opened his mouth after the game she turned to me and said, "I hope Seattle gets killed in the Super Bowl".

Does that mean my wife is racist? No. It means she doesn't suffer the egotistical ramblings of an asshole like Richard Sherman. If you're going to go out and rant and rave like that, you better be ready for the snap judgments that follow.

In closing, beat Kansas.

Your wife worries too much about what Richard Sherman says....

 

[jmizzy4ou]

I am getting the picture now. Your statement strikes me as very condescending towards older people. Since people are older, their views don't have as much meaning, or worse, they are old so who cares about their views. Only your point of view is the correct one, because it is based on your youthful personal experience.

Different views based on the real world personal experience of older people are not tolerated. It is called racist and bigoted.

Sorry you took it that way Trav. I myself, am considered one of the older posters around here. That is why I felt I could use that. Not condescending at all, at least intent wise. My point was that many people old and young make absolute statements based on what they have experienced, or learned, without considering there is a world outside of the one they live in. A better example probably would have been to say young Sooner fans who became Sooner fans in the Stoops era, often underrate and discredit guys from the Wilkinson/Switzer era because they have no personal experience with that era.

Many posters here and on message boards in general make sweeping statements based on their life experiences. I guess we all do that to a certain extent. It is always good to see things from someone else's point of view, something I believe we must learn/put effort into doing.

Again I'm sorry you took what I said as an attack on older people because it wasn't. I'm no spring chicken myself, my good buddy Ada can vouch for that.

 

[Sooner04]

Your wife worries too much

You were correct here, regardless of what came after. You could knock out the Iliad and Gravity's Rainbow in the time it'd take me to type out all of her worries.

 

[jmizzy4ou]

There is always someone writing a paper on things like this. It doesn't make that person correct. Why not write a paper entitled Richard Sherman doesn't even know what the word professional means.

Sherman acted like a fool. When he got called on it, he wanted to turn it on those that called him on his actions and claimed racism. Sherman should be mocked, ridiculed and scorned. He is so far from a professional it is not even funny. Professionals act like Peyton Manning or Barry Sanders not Richard Sherman. Unfortunately in sports you see far too many Shermans and our society is so pathetic we reward horrible people like Sherman with endorsement deals.

Most of our political beliefs, religious beliefs, and other beliefs are formed based on what people told us, or what we heard or read. Of course one person writing a paper doesn't make a thing correct, but it does give you an idea of how many people see a thing. I'm sure there were many papers written about Sherman's conduct, and whatever was said was mostly deserved, IMO. That is not what we were discussing here, so that is why I didn't open up the subject of what SHOULD have been written.


No matter who agrees or not, there is a large portion of our society, black & white, who consider the word THUG a derogatory term used to identify mostly black males. Regardless of who started the trend, and regardless of how I personally grew up defining THUG, it is a common theme in 2014, even in areas of OUr great state of Oklahoma. That is the point I originally tried to make, and went a long way around to getting back there. I helped totally derail this thread, so I will stop here, and if it needs to continue, I or someone else can start a new thread.

Back on topic: I hope young Stevie Clark gets himself together and overcomes his personal demons. He has enormous talent, and I hope he doesn't go the way of so many inner city kids who have that type of talent. Thanks for the good discussion guys......

 

[SoonerTraveler]

jmizzy4ou ... I was trying to make a point.

On the one hand, someone can use some generic term like thug, which seems to have different meanings to different people, and be considered a racist or bigot.

On the other hand, someone can specifically single out older people, and use that specific phrase (older people) to APPEAR to dismiss their arguments as passe and outdated; meaningless.

In neither case, was there any actual racism or intent to disrespect elders.

If one wants to look for racism and bigotry, they can find it, even if it is not there. What pisses me off is the constant default argument of racism when someone uses a valid word in the ****ing English language.

 

[SoonerTraveler]

And another thing, if you falsely accuse someone of being racist, then what does that make you?

If someone drives down my street swinging their ding-dong out the window, then yes, they can be called a thug.

 

[scrybe]

And another thing, if you falsely accuse someone of being racist, then what does that make you?

If someone drives down my street swinging their ding-dong out the window, then yes, they can be called a thug.

LOL. Very good, Traveler.

 

[CobraKai]

I can say this is the first time I've ever heard "thug" labeled a racist word. I know in college all of my friends from Broken Arrow (all white) were called (and called themselves) BA Thugs. If anything I've always considered thug to be more white trash than a derogatory term for minorities. Shows what I know I guess.

 

[jmizzy4ou]

jmizzy4ou ... I was trying to make a point.

On the one hand, someone can use some generic term like thug, which seems to have different meanings to different people, and be considered a racist or bigot.

On the other hand, someone can specifically single out older people, and use that specific phrase (older people) to APPEAR to dismiss their arguments as passe and outdated; meaningless.

In neither case, was there any actual racism or intent to disrespect elders.

If one wants to look for racism and bigotry, they can find it, even if it is not there. What pisses me off is the constant default argument of racism when someone uses a valid word in the ****ing English language.

Gotcha. Was not calling anyone a racist, and certainly not encouraging anyone to play the race card.Thanks for making a great point. I appreciate everyone's respectful exchanges.....

 

[KBaden145]

I'm 40. I'm a man. The neighborhood I grew up was middle class and roughly 70-30 Caucasian to minority which included black, Asian, and Hispanic families. Not an overly tough neighborhood at all but not the easiest place to grow up. Plenty of street football, pick- up basketball, and plenty of fist fights involving the former. I was usually one of the younger kids and I got the short end of things...a lot. I played with a bunch of thugs in my day. These included white kids and minorities. It was a term used to describe behavior and had ZERO racial meaning. We NEVER used the N word. Taboo and punishment was swift. Other derogatory minority names were also carefully avoided. Thug was not and isn't now for me a racially targeted reference. I can see how it might for some under the right circumstance. By our definition, Richard Sherman did not act like a thug. What Marcus Smart did in Lubbock was thuggish by my neighborhoods standards. Doesn't matter what color a persons skin is. To me it is all about behavior.


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