Substitution Pattern

[TheMont]

After the game, I was talking with someone who watched the game but is not an OU fan, and he remarked that OU "only has 5 players". I said "actually this is OU's deepest team in a very long time," and he straight up did not believe me.

I thought it was interesting that neither team substituted in any of the overtimes, except for when Jordan fouled out in the final seconds. (I could be wrong about KU. I don't recall any substitutions on their part.)

Here's a few questions:

--Both teams were clearly exhausted. Do you think a fresh Walker, James, or Buford could have been a step ahead of everyone?

--As Dickey V pointed out seemingly hundreds of times, Spangler had entirely stopped looking to score. Would you sub for him?

--I think we all agree our bench has improved, but perhaps not enough to trust at the end of the game? Would you have trusted any bench player enough to be put into the game in overtime?

--Personally, I think we couldn't afford to sit Buddy or Jordan at all. But Isaiah was struggling for much of the game. He can clearly take over a game at any point (case in point: ISU, Villanova, etc), but in last night's situation, would you have left him in there for all 3 OTs?

--Mostly: If you were Lon, who would you have substituted and when?


(Also I want to be VERY clear that I'm extremely proud of this team and how hard they fought all game. This post isn't intended to be negative of Lon or the players' performance last night. I'm just trying to start a discussion.)

 

[campbest]

Dance with the ones that brought you there. No issue with the lack of subs, you can't throw in a guy off the bench who hasn't played or warmed up in 30min and expect instant success.

I actually thought Cousins getting two fouls and having to sit a while would help his dismal start, but didn't work out that way. OU had to win this in regulation or OT, very very difficult to pull out a W with number of minutes our guys play.

 

[Zimwillett]

The problem is the overtime periods are so short, and there's really not much of an opportunity to get into normal substitution patterns. Plus, every possession in those 5 minute periods is amplified. If you substitute, you could wind up with a guy you don't really trust out there for half the overtime period depending on the run of play. Would you really have wanted Buford out there trying to defend Ellis on 3 or 4 possessions in OT?

Lastly, no one really plans to go 3 overtimes. I'm sure at the start of each overtime you're thinking, "if I can just get 5 minutes out of my best five, we'll win and go home." I don't put that on Lon. KU didn't sub in OT either.

 

[WTSooner]

LK doesn't trust his bench against quality opponents, and he shouldn't. Walker has held up okay, but James, Buford, and Manyang looked lost against KU.

That is going to be one of the keys to OU achieving it's goals this year. Our bench is going to have to get better. We're on a pace now that our starters are going to be worn smooth out come March.

 

[pnkranger]

LK doesn't trust his bench against quality opponents, and he shouldn't. Walker has held up okay, but James, Buford, and Manyang looked lost against KU.

That is going to be one of the keys to OU achieving it's goals this year. Our bench is going to have to get better. We're on a pace now that our starters are going to be worn smooth out come March.

I actually thought James and buford held their own defensively and took good shots. Just didn't get any to drop.

 

[vbdad]

Dante couldn't cover Ellis at all although he tried his best. He probably could cover Lucas because he doesn't have an offensive game but size would have been trouble. I liked his aggressiveness offensively but nothing went in for him.

 

[campbest]

LK doesn't trust his bench against quality opponents, and he shouldn't. Walker has held up okay, but James, Buford, and Manyang looked lost against KU.

That is going to be one of the keys to OU achieving it's goals this year. Our bench is going to have to get better. We're on a pace now that our starters are going to be worn smooth out come March.

It's the second conference game and Spangler is already banged up, someone has to get more minutes.

 

[BoulderSooner]

LK doesn't trust his bench against quality opponents, and he shouldn't. Walker has held up okay, but James, Buford, and Manyang looked lost against KU.

That is going to be one of the keys to OU achieving it's goals this year. Our bench is going to have to get better. We're on a pace now that our starters are going to be worn smooth out come March.

unc had a nc team that played 6 players and duke played 7 last year ..

we are fine

 

[WTSooner]

unc had a nc team that played 6 players and duke played 7 last year ..

we are fine

None of those Duke/NC kids had to work as hard as Spangler does. Same with Buddy if last night and the ISU game are any indications of our team against good opponents. We need better bench play. To suggest otherwise is silly.

 

[campbest]

unc had a nc team that played 6 players and duke played 7 last year ..

we are fine

OU can definitely contend, there is a no doubt about that.

But comparing them to Duke last year is silly, that team had three first round draft picks, one from every major position (PG, wing, post). Complete apples to oranges situation.

 

[TheMont]

Yeah, we're definitely gonna need Spangler at full strength in March. Unfortunately we had to play the 2 toughest teams in the league back-to-back with only a day in between and we had to travel. Hopefully Spangler (and others) won't be required to play 40 minutes against K-State and osu.

 

[cowboysooner]

Both within the context of a single game and for purposes of not running down the kids over a season, Lon has got to develop a substitution pattern that rests his kids.

You don't need great players to play to merit substitution. In high school coaches usually have a significant different in talent, starters to bench. But, they find ways to get bench minutes. You put a kid in with a minute or two before a time out, and then let him play a minute or two (or even more if the other team doesn't figure out how to exploit) and then those minutes combined with the time out, gives the starter a reasonable break. There are other ways.

The last couple of years our starters, particularly Spangler and Buddy, have been beaten down by tournament time and far less effective than earlier in the year. We will see the very same thing this year unless Lon doesn't start playing some bench players.

In the past, we had to go to far lesser players when going to the bench, however that just isn't the case now. James, Odomes, Buford, Manyang and even McNease are all capable players that have performed well when given the chance (walker is getting minutes, so I didn't list him).

Look I love Lon and wouldn't trade him for anyone, but IMO he needs involve his bench more. That being said, there have been some great coaches that never played there bench, most notably, John Wooden. So, maybe I'm wrong on this. But, it is my opinion.

 

[HeismanWatch]

Shocked someone didn't spell Cousins some minutes in OT.

 

[jaymOU]

Buford, James and Manyang - along with Walker - do need to provide some meaningful minutes.

last night, I though Walker, Buford and James were all serviceable. Manyang was bad, just didn't appear ready to compete last night on that stage.

But deep and talented KU didn't sub in OT either. I actually think Self's substitution patterns helped OU get back into the game in the first half.

While I agree you need to get guys some rest, most of OU's great teams have not been deep - Kelvin and Billy mostly played with 7 guys.

 

[SilliSooner]

I'm disappointed we're not seeing more McNease. He appears to be pretty coordinated, a better athlete than Manyang and could be serviceable in spot duty.

What he doesn't have a lot of is confidence but if we can build that into him he can give Spangler an occasional rest.

 

[TheMont]

Last night our bench had a combined total of 5 points (1-11 from the field, 3-5 from the line), 7 rebounds, 1 assist, 2 TOs, 2 blocks, 2 steals in 35 minutes.

Before the game, the bench's averages were 17.8 points, 10.2 rebounds and 2.6 assists in 63.9 minutes played.

 

[opsooner]

I really like that LK played a lot of guys early in he season and tried to find out who can play. Some took that as us having a deep team but we're not deeply talented on the bench. Well, there is talent there but it is going to take more time to develop.

It appears he has settled on Walker (given), Manyang, Buford, and James. Unfortunately, they had to start the conference season with the 2 most elite teams other than their own and that naturally limited them. Only Walker has seen this kind of competition. The rest should start getting more time now against other opponents. Along the way they have to get better.

LK did what he had to do to try to win the first 2 games and it almost worked.

 

[opsooner]

Buford, James and Manyang - along with Walker - do need to provide some meaningful minutes.

last night, I though Walker, Buford and James were all serviceable. Manyang was bad, just didn't appear ready to compete last night on that stage.

But deep and talented KU didn't sub in OT either. I actually think Self's substitution patterns helped OU get back into the game in the first half.

While I agree you need to get guys some rest, most of OU's great teams have not been deep - Kelvin and Billy mostly played with 7 guys.

Agree. No one in the conference has a strong enough bench to compete against the very best for a long period of time. We played a 3OT game against the best team not called OU. Two mights before that we played the next best team from behind most of the night. I want to see how things play out and not use those 2 games as the measuring stick.