Summer workouts

[BCSooners]

We need better team defense. Odomes played last year, and his individual defense didn't do jack b/c the team defense was so bad.

And without Young, we really can't afford a black hole offensively at the 3 spot. OU shouldn't need to start a guy so limited offensively. If we do, that is a problem.

Team defense was 3 people's fault about 95% of the time. I agree he's not great offensively, even though he still shoots well just hesitant.

 

[vbdad]

Don’t forget that four members of that lineup started at times last season. If Calixete’s presence at the point improves the team chemistry, who knows how much better this team can be? I think it’s safe to say the team chemistry can’t possibly be any worse.

It should also be noted that James, Odomes, Manek and McNeace aren’t the only options. Don’t forget about Doolittle in the starting lineup. Freeman might start in some situations. The backups aren’t that bad either.

I agree with Colston15. We’ll miss TY’s ability to score. We will not miss the dissension attributed to Young, McGusty and Shepherd in the second half of the season. If this group comes together as a team and sells out on defense, as they reportedly agreed to do in their post season team meeting last year, I think they may surprise a lot of people.

Team chemistry will be better almost by default as there was none by the end of the year. And truthfully it wasn't great even when we were playing great. TY absolutely will be missed as he was a great player and had an unbelievable feel for the game. There was no leadership on last years team! TY didn't want to lead and to be fair he was only a freshman. Lattin wanted to be a leader by talking but he wasn't either. I don't know if any of the returners will finally assume leadership or not. Reynolds will be a leader but it remains to be seen how much time he is playing. I expect it will a decent amount.

I don't know about starters yet. Odomes wasn't mentioned and I forgot to ask about him. They are very pleased with Bienemy but he is a freshman so we will see what happens. It was mentioned that Doolittle has talent and needs to display it.

My best guess and it is a guess is: Calixte, James, McNeace, Manek and Odomes. I think it will be a shock if the first 4 aren't starting.

 

[skyvue]

Team chemistry will be better almost by default as there was none by the end of the year. And truthfully it wasn't great even when we were playing great. TY absolutely will be missed as he was a great player and had an unbelievable feel for the game. There was no leadership on last years team! TY didn't want to lead and to be fair he was only a freshman. Lattin wanted to be a leader by talking but he wasn't either. I don't know if any of the returners will finally assume leadership or not. Reynolds will be a leader but it remains to be seen how much time he is playing. I expect it will a decent amount.

I don't know about starters yet. Odomes wasn't mentioned and I forgot to ask about him. They are very pleased with Bienemy but he is a freshman so we will see what happens. It was mentioned that Doolittle has talent and needs to display it.

My best guess and it is a guess is: Calixte, James, McNeace, Manek and Odomes. I think it will be a shock if the first 4 aren't starting.

Thanks, VB!

 

[Eielson]

If that is true, we may be in some trouble unless somebody else is much better than expected. IMO, we needed him to be a better option than Odomes.

A starting lineup of the kid from Maine, James, Odomes, Manek, and McNeace doesn't do much for me.

So you don't think replacing Trae with a real PG will fix all our problems?

 

[WTSooner]

So you don't think replacing Trae with a real PG will fix all our problems?

lol, what? I can't tell if you are joking or not. Surely you are?

 

[AdaSooner]

lol, what? I can't tell if you are joking or not. Surely you are?

Depends on your definition of a “real PG.” Trae’s PG skills are/were off the charts. His leadership skills last season were practically nonexistent. Ask the players on last year’s team if they were happy with their role as Trae Young’s self-promo pawns?

If Calixte is the team player I think he will be, we will all know what Eielson meant by “a real PG.” I also believe we will see a difference in the way this team responds to our PG’s leadership.

 

[coolm]

gotta agree with ada there. last year was "trae & support cast" instead of the sooners. I am looking forward to seeing a TEAM out there this season even if the start is tough.

 

[skyvue]

In what way was Trae a bad teammate? He certainly shared the ball (leading the nation in assists). If you're talking about how he got all the media attention, that's certainly not his fault. He never failed, in any interview I ever saw, to credit his teammates for their contributions. If anyone has specific examples, please share them. Because posting these digs at him without offering evidence doesn't seem fair.

 

[BCSooners]

Offensively I thought Trae was borderline amazing, I thought he could've moved the ball better & have better shot selection but that's about it. He made good assist passses and got by his man easier than I thought he could.

My main argument with Trae is that he was horrendous on the defensive end and his effort was downright poor when things were going south. He gave up more points than he accounted for some nights and that can't happen given how much the ball was in his hands and what he could do with it.

I don't blame him for jealousy within the team bc of media coverage. He might've been able to convince the guys in the locker room that it doesn't matter to him that he just wants to win but I have no evidence that he did or didn't do that. Although I will say it's frustrating to have a teammate only try on 1 side of the court. Now I also think he should've been held more accountable in that aspect.

I hope we are better than last year but I have no idea bc Trae was really gifted & by far the most talented guy on the team. Going to have to win ugly games sometimes & everyone will have to be extremely unselfish on the court, bench, & off court imo along with some guys stepping up their games.

 

[WTSooner]

If Calixte is the team player I think he will be, we will all know what Eielson meant by “a real PG.” I also believe we will see a difference in the way this team responds to our PG’s leadership.

Two things.

One, it's tough to say Young wasn't a team player with the assists he had. I'm not a big Young fan myself, but he gave his teammates plenty of scoring opportunities.

Two, you (and the rest of us) have NO idea what kind of leader Calixte will be. None. And we have no idea how the guys will respond to him. We won't, until we see it. I know though if I were James, or Odomes, or even McNeace, and I had been in the program for 3-4 years, and some new guy came in trying to run the show, I'm not sure my response would be positive. At least, not initially.

There is no rule that the team leader has to be the PG. Najera wasn't the PG. Hollis wasn't the PG. And the list goes on and on. Young wasn't a very good leader, but he was also an 18 year old freshman.

My proof that the problem is talent? A lot of these same guys were on the 2016-2017 team. That team won 11 games. Young helped bump it to 18. I really don't see enough of a talent infusion to offset the loss of Young, bad attitude or not.

 

[61sooner]

Sort of comparison.
When Pistol Pete left LSU they won 8 less games the next season.
2nd year out won 10 and Dad,Press was out.
I think, hope not, this coming season 14 wins might be tops, One game over 500% and into the NIT would be a success.

 

[hoopsaustin]

Two things.

One, it's tough to say Young wasn't a team player with the assists he had. I'm not a big Young fan myself, but he gave his teammates plenty of scoring opportunities.

Two, you (and the rest of us) have NO idea what kind of leader Calixte will be. None. And we have no idea how the guys will respond to him. We won't, until we see it. I know though if I were James, or Odomes, or even McNeace, and I had been in the program for 3-4 years, and some new guy came in trying to run the show, I'm not sure my response would be positive. At least, not initially.

There is no rule that the team leader has to be the PG. Najera wasn't the PG. Hollis wasn't the PG. And the list goes on and on. Young wasn't a very good leader, but he was also an 18 year old freshman.

My proof that the problem is talent? A lot of these same guys were on the 2016-2017 team. That team won 11 games. Young helped bump it to 18. I really don't see enough of a talent infusion to offset the loss of Young, bad attitude or not.

WT spitting knowledge in this thread.. and others still obsessed with last year..

We need talent to vastly improve and coaching from Kruger to also vastly improve..

there is very little natural defensive skills.. any kid can play defense. Kruger needs to bench anyone that refuses to play defense. bc this year we won't have a guy whos offense is so good you can somewhat justify him half assing on defense

 

[colston15]

Trae Young, for nearly the entirety of Big 12 play, was a below average player.

He scored 27 a night, but the volume was outrageous and horribly inefficient.

He also shot more 3-pointers by himself than all but two of the other players had total shots. His assist to turnover ratio in conference play was just a little above average. Not to mention his defense was porous.

I could go on and on. What about Trae will we miss next season? His ability to create step back 30-footers? Maybe his innate talent for playing matador defense?

Yes, I do think we're better without his undeniable, but tremendously unrefined talent.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Trae Young, for nearly the entirety of Big 12 play, was a below average player.

He scored 27 a night, but the volume was outrageous and horribly inefficient.

He also shot more 3-pointers by himself than all but two of the other players had total shots. His assist to turnover ratio in conference play was just a little above average. Not to mention his defense was porous.

I could go on and on. What about Trae will we miss next season? His ability to create step back 30-footers? Maybe his innate talent for playing matador defense?

Yes, I do think we're better without his undeniable, but tremendously unrefined talent.

The first sentence of the this post is so ridiculous that nothing you say later in the post can be taken seriously.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

The first sentence of the this post is so ridiculous that nothing you say later in the post can be taken seriously.

I agree but he isn't too far off.

 

[skyvue]

His assist to turnover ratio in conference play was just a little above average.

Had his teammates hit even a reasonable percentage of the wide-open shots Young set them up with, a) his assist numbers would have been much higher and b) he likely wouldn't have felt the need to take on on so much of the offensive burden himself.

The team was in freefall and everyone (including many of the same posters who criticize him on this board with regularity) looked to Trae to save the day. That's a lot to ask of a true freshman in a conference as tough as the Big 12; I'm sure he felt the weight of it on his shoulders throughout conference play.

But not one person has answered my question: It's fine to criticize his play (though just citing stats without mentioning the poor play of his teammates is only telling half the story), but what evidence can anyone provide that he was a bad teammate or a "cancer" on the team?

 

[BCSooners]

Had his teammates hit even a reasonable percentage of the wide-open shots Young set them up with, a) his assist numbers would have been much higher and b) he likely wouldn't have felt the need to take on on so much of the offensive burden himself.

This is a very tiring argument. 1) every starter on the team + jamuni & Kam shot a higher fg% than TY 2) every starter shot a higher 3pt% than TY 3) our 2 bigs shot 59%(KL) & 67%(JM).

Take away TY stats and the team shot 57% on 2s and 36% on 3s.

 

[hoopsaustin]

Had his teammates hit even a reasonable percentage of the wide-open shots Young set them up with, a) his assist numbers would have been much higher and b) he likely wouldn't have felt the need to take on on so much of the offensive burden himself.

The team was in freefall and everyone (including many of the same posters who criticize him on this board with regularity) looked to Trae to save the day. That's a lot to ask of a true freshman in a conference as tough as the Big 12; I'm sure he felt the weight of it on his shoulders throughout conference play.

But not one person has answered my question: It's fine to criticize his play (though just citing stats without mentioning the poor play of his teammates is only telling half the story), but what evidence can anyone provide that he was a bad teammate or a "cancer" on the team?

There is no such evidence.. its inferred because our very low D1 player sheperd transferred bc he didn't play much and mcgusty was a jealous and selfish player that actually was a cancer, and due to the fact that those 2 players were unhappy, it must have been bc of Trae Young.

All of this despite the fact that Trae personally wished them success on twitter after they announced and he really gave mcgusty praise

 

[hoopsaustin]

This is a very tiring argument. 1) every starter on the team + jamuni & Kam shot a higher fg% than TY 2) every starter shot a higher 3pt% than TY 3) our 2 bigs shot 59%(KL) & 67%(JM).

Take away TY stats and the team shot 57% on 2s and 36% on 3s.

Oh. And what did they shoot when Trae was off of the floor and not commanding double teams and the best defender on him???

 

[BCSooners]

Oh. And what did they shoot when Trae was off of the floor and not commanding double teams and the best defender on him???

Since he only sat 4 mins a game I'm sure it's not a good sample size one way or another. My argument was that the guys made shots. Some people just bash other players for Trae not getting 20 assists but can't stand it when you bring up he probably gave up 40+ points a game.