Texas was up 65-47 on N.C. State

[Sooner_In_MI]

Then J'Covan got his 4th foul, argued with the refs, and got T'd up for his 5th foul. They lost 77-74.

 

[MsProudSooner]

Too bad, so sad.....

 

[TheGimper]

I just love that the past two basketball games aired on the Longhorn Network have ended with Texas losses.

 

[Sawyer]

It was actually 65-52 when he fouled out, not that it makes the loss any more defensible (it was 65-47 a few possessions before he fouled out). How you let a team close on a 30-9 run over the last 11:30 is beyond me. That's pathetic.

 

[DenverSooner]

So what do you do as a coach when you have a player foul out like that? I would be some pissed at his immaturity and selfishness. You just can't have one of your best players do that. I did not actually see the game but I would not be happy with the 5th foul T. It is stupid and very selfish to pick up that foul.

 

[SoonerinNC]

Texas appears to be a slashing team. They have quick guards that can go to the hoop and seem to draw a foul if anyone breathes on them. They are really tough to stay n front of but that seems to be a big part of their offense.

NC State did a good job of checking them over the last 10 minutes of the game.

 

[Sawyer]

So what do you do as a coach when you have a player foul out like that? I would be some pissed at his immaturity and selfishness. You just can't have one of your best players do that. I did not actually see the game but I would not be happy with the 5th foul T. It is stupid and very selfish to pick up that foul.

I would seriously consider a one-game suspension.

Their next game is against Sam Houston State, who they should be able to beat without him. It sends a message to Brown, who has to play smarter than that if they're going to have any success this year, and it also sends a message to the rest of the team (as well as giving them a chance to develop without him).

 

[DFWHoopster]

I will be surprised in Brown makes it through the season. There will be plenty of frustration for Texas as they incorporate all these new players. And I am doubtful that Brown or Barnes have the patience necessary for their marriage to work. I may need to subscribe to the Longhorn Network just to watch the drama unfold.

 

[tycat947]

Too bad, so sad.....

You and me both!!!

:clap:clap:clap

 

[sperry]

It is pretty incredible the lack of success they have had in both football and basketball considering the amount of talent they've had and the built in advantages that come with that program. Texas could be scary in both football and basketball if they were willing to get rid of Brown and Barnes. As an OU fan, I hope they hang onto those two as long as possible.

 

[Sawyer]

It is pretty incredible the lack of success they have had in both football and basketball considering the amount of talent they've had and the built in advantages that come with that program. Texas could be scary in both football and basketball if they were willing to get rid of Brown and Barnes. As an OU fan, I hope they hang onto those two as long as possible.

On the other hand, both Barnes and Brown are pretty big upgrades over UT's recent past before them. UT has all the resources a school could hope for, but that hasn't always translated into wins.

The recent rumors floating around of UT throwing eight figures at Saban after this year are interesting, but aside from that type of hire in either sport, it would be hard to justify replacing either coach. Could the school do better? Definitely. Should they? Arguably. But the odds of finding someone who could are not good.

 

[McJacknife]

I think the thing that will plague Texas athletics for all of time (regardless of the coach), is the overinflated sense of entitlement. I don't know that there's a coach on earth who can stamp out the hero treatment with one hand, and bring in the 'talent' with the other.

 

[sperry]

On the other hand, both Barnes and Brown are pretty big upgrades over UT's recent past before them. UT has all the resources a school could hope for, but that hasn't always translated into wins.

The recent rumors floating around of UT throwing eight figures at Saban after this year are interesting, but aside from that type of hire in either sport, it would be hard to justify replacing either coach. Could the school do better? Definitely. Should they? Arguably. But the odds of finding someone who could are not good.

It's not hard at all to argue. Mack Brown is about to be 11-13 over a 2 year stretch. His teams have always been mediocre at best when they aren't led by one of the best QBs in NCAA history. Things aren't looking much better for next year. He have "retired" by the end of the '12 season.


Rick Barnes continues to amass a ton of talent, but not put up post-season results. They are now getting outrecruited by Baylor. I know that he isn't going to be replaced, because he's always going to make the tournament. Still, their NCAA tournament results are a joke considering how much NBA talent they've had. Barnes has to have had something like 15 1st round draft picks since he's been there, but only been to one Final four, and had some pretty bad seasons with a lot of talent. The other programs that are producing as much talent as Texas (Duke, Carolina, Kansas, Kentucky) have Final Fours and championships to show for their efforts.

 

[stoops4pres]

It's not hard at all to argue. Mack Brown is about to be 11-13 over a 2 year stretch. His teams have always been mediocre at best when they aren't led by one of the best QBs in NCAA history. Things aren't looking much better for next year. He have "retired" by the end of the '12 season.


Rick Barnes continues to amass a ton of talent, but not put up post-season results. They are now getting outrecruited by Baylor. I know that he isn't going to be replaced, because he's always going to make the tournament. Still, their NCAA tournament results are a joke considering how much NBA talent they've had. Barnes has to have had something like 15 1st round draft picks since he's been there, but only been to one Final four, and had some pretty bad seasons with a lot of talent. The other programs that are producing as much talent as Texas (Duke, Carolina, Kansas, Kentucky) have Final Fours and championships to show for their efforts.

I hate to sound like a Brown apologist, but historically speaking he's much better than you are giving him credit for. Even when they had Chris Simms they were still posting Top 10 seasons. And keep in mind he also turned around North Carolina.

No doubt the Gilbert gaffe has come to haunt them the last two years. With that being said, they still have two games left to come out 8-4, maybe 9-4 with a bowl win. So I think it's TBD as far as what should happen with him. But overall, just because Stoops has gotten the best of him, doesn't mean he hasn't been one of the best coaches since 2000.

I'm with you on Barnes though... No one has continued to do less with more. And judging by this awful start to the season, they'll be lucky to even make the tournament. I don't think people should praise him at Texas because he has actually been able to have a modicum of success at an institution that should've been a basketball power all along. They could do much, much better there than with Barnes.

 

[sperry]

I hate to sound like a Brown apologist, but historically speaking he's much better than you are giving him credit for. Even when they had Chris Simms they were still posting Top 10 seasons. And keep in mind he also turned around North Carolina.

No doubt the Gilbert gaffe has come to haunt them the last two years. With that being said, they still have two games left to come out 8-4, maybe 9-4 with a bowl win. So I think it's TBD as far as what should happen with him. But overall, just because Stoops has gotten the best of him, doesn't mean he hasn't been one of the best coaches since 2000.

I'm with you on Barnes though... No one has continued to do less with more. And judging by this awful start to the season, they'll be lucky to even make the tournament. I don't think people should praise him at Texas because he has actually been able to have a modicum of success at an institution that should've been a basketball power all along. They could do much, much better there than with Barnes.

Brown has zero conference championships without Young/ McCoy. Unlikely they get one in the foreseeable future.

 

[DenverSooner]

Rick Barnes continues to amass a ton of talent, but not put up post-season results. They are now getting outrecruited by Baylor. I know that he isn't going to be replaced, because he's always going to make the tournament. Still, their NCAA tournament results are a joke considering how much NBA talent they've had. Barnes has to have had something like 15 1st round draft picks since he's been there, but only been to one Final four, and had some pretty bad seasons with a lot of talent. The other programs that are producing as much talent as Texas (Duke, Carolina, Kansas, Kentucky) have Final Fours and championships to show for their efforts.

I think Barnes has been hurt by having so many guys leave early for the NBA. Jordan Hamilton, Triston Thompson and Cory Joseph all left early. Thompson and Joseph were going to be sophomores. The guy lost three starters from this years team. It is hard to be good when you lose the type of talent that Barnes loses to the NBA. I am not sold on Barnes as being a great coach but I think he is head and shoulders above Mack Brown. UT basketball does not get the support or media attention of football. It is really quite similar to OU in that respect.

 

[stoops4pres]

Brown has zero conference championships without Young/ McCoy. Unlikely they get one in the foreseeable future.

I suppose your definition for success or lack thereof, and mediocrity or lack thereof, is different than mine.

As for the Young/McCoy argument, shouldn't he get credit for recruiting both (since recruiting is a key determinant for college football success)? Especially the recruiting and development of McCoy to reach the pinnacles he did in college? It wasn't like McCoy was a sure-fire lock to be the first pick in the draft when he enrolled his freshman season, anyways. Instead, he was a guy that many pundits slept on throughout his high school career.

Objectively speaking, Brown hasn't been as good as Stoops. But he's better than given credit for. Just my opinion.

 

[sperry]

I suppose your definition for success or lack thereof, and mediocrity or lack thereof, is different than mine.

As for the Young/McCoy argument, shouldn't he get credit for recruiting both (since recruiting is a key determinant for college football success)? Especially the recruiting and development of McCoy to reach the pinnacles he did in college? It wasn't like McCoy was a sure-fire lock to be the first pick in the draft when he enrolled his freshman season, anyways. Instead, he was a guy that many pundits slept on throughout his high school career.

Objectively speaking, Brown hasn't been as good as Stoops. But he's better than given credit for. Just my opinion.

Not gonna give Brown credit for recruiting Young since everyone in the country wanted him, but I will give him props on McCoy. That being said, he is unlikely to ever have a QB of that caliber again.


As for Texas, in football, like every other sport, Texas has a HUGE built in advantage. They are the flagship state university of one of the most talent rich states in the country. Tons of top prospects grow up dreaming of playing for Texas, at least in football. OU rarely wins head to head recruiting battles with Texas, yet OU has had exponentially more success in football than Texas, and it boils down to coaching. Can you imagine Bob Stoops, Nick Saban, Urban Meyer, etc. going 11-13 over a two year period? It's almost unfathomable.

 

[stoops4pres]

Not gonna give Brown credit for recruiting Young since everyone in the country wanted him, but I will give him props on McCoy. That being said, he is unlikely to ever have a QB of that caliber again.

True, but he still hauled Young in. Again, recruiting expertise is an important factor of football success. And I'm not quite sure what your point about whether or not Brown will ever field a QB the caliber of McCoy has to do with the topic at hand, since Brown has shown to have stout teams without him and Young.

As for Texas, in football, like every other sport, Texas has a HUGE built in advantage. They are the flagship state university of one of the most talent rich states in the country. Tons of top prospects grow up dreaming of playing for Texas, at least in football. OU rarely wins head to head recruiting battles with Texas, yet OU has had exponentially more success in football than Texas, and it boils down to coaching.

I wish the bold were true, but according to recruiting sites that isn't. In fact, quite a few years Stoops has had more success going head-to-head against Brown.

Can you imagine Bob Stoops, Nick Saban, Urban Meyer, etc. going 11-13 over a two year period? It's almost unfathomable.

Well he's not 11-13 yet (though it would be great for that to happen)... But given how mediocre Florida has been the last two years (2010 with Urban Meyer), I could've seen him going 11-11 in a 22-game stretch, which is Brown's current run.

But you're right, I certainly can't see Saban nor Stoops (two of the best in the business) falling that low. Point being, I think Brown still has time to turn the ship around. Overall though, I just don't agree that he had been mediocre in the past without Young and McCoy, and still deserves credit for fielding both QB's anyways. Go back and take everything into account, and I think you'll realize he's had a fantastic run at Texas. It's just his main adversary at OU has been more fantastic .

 

[Sawyer]

Can you imagine Bob Stoops, Nick Saban, Urban Meyer, etc. going 11-13 over a two year period?

Who is etc.?

You've named three of the best coaches of a generation. I can think of maybe four other coaches I would be confident in saying they'd never have a stretch like Brown's past two years (and two of those four, Carroll and Tressell, are currently out of college coaching after NCAA issues; the other two are Miles and maybe Petrino).

On the other hand, how many coaches would you be absolutely confident in winning a national title at Texas?