The “Flopper” is still up to his old tricks!

[BCSooners]

The fact that you both had to come on here to talk about his triple-double (only attained because the game went to double-OT) in a losing effort speaks volumes to how non-special of a player he truly is.

Remember my original comments I was criticized for earlier in this thread?



He followed up that impressive sequence with a 4-15 performance in a one point loss. I didn't come back on her to say "I told you so," because that performance was expected. He's been doing it his whole career.

He went 8.5/4.5/2.5 on 31.8% shooting last series. Didn't matter...the Celtics still swept the Sixers.

He's the kinda dip**** that jumps into the stands and shoves a fan for yelling at him, and then afterwards fabricates a story about being called the "N-word."

He's. Not. Special.

My issue was when you compared him to Caruso.

No one is saying he’s an all star. But he’s a combo guard that does a ton of different things. He’s also 1st team all defense, can guard 4 positions & sometimes 5, and has locked up Toronto’s best player.

 

[Eielson]

My issue was when you compared him to Caruso.

No one is saying he’s an all star. But he’s a combo guard that does a ton of different things. He’s also 1st team all defense, can guard 4 positions & sometimes 5, and has locked up Toronto’s best player.

I never said Caruso was better. Simply that he's a guy that contributes, his team will miss, but the team won't miss a beat when he leaves.

 

[Eielson]

Celtics currently imploding. Smart going full-blown psycho in the locker room.

"He's such a great teammate."

 

[BCSooners]

Celtics currently imploding. Smart going full-blown psycho in the locker room.

"He's such a great teammate."

They blew 16 & 17 point leads and are down 0-2. Sorry he wasn’t praising the performance. Sometimes you gotta rip ass.

 

[Eielson]

They blew 16 & 17 point leads and are down 0-2. Sorry he wasn’t praising the performance. Sometimes you gotta rip ass.

I might agree with you if this were Kobe, MJ, or Lebron. Maybe even a Kemba. But the last thing you need with your season on the brink is a role player losing his mind blaming everybody else and destroying the locker room. This was not a calculated move -- this was an immature kid that still can't control his temper. At least he didn't hop into the stands this time, but perhaps he would have if they weren't in the bubble.

 

[BCSooners]

I might agree with you if this were Kobe, MJ, or Lebron. Maybe even a Kemba. But the last thing you need with your season on the brink is a role player losing his mind blaming everybody else and destroying the locker room. This was not a calculated move -- this was an immature kid that still can't control his temper. At least he didn't hop into the stands this time, but perhaps he would have if they weren't in the bubble.

I’d agree with you if you didn’t bring up LeBron or Kemba. Smart is a better leader than those two. Butler was considered a bad teammate until he was around players that wanted to compete & play hard. I think the Celtics have some of those guys & that’s why they’ll respond to it.

Kemba is the 5the leader of the team & 75%+ of the league soured on Lebrun’s response on how he wanted to handle the league’s postponement.

 

[Eielson]

I’d agree with you if you didn’t bring up LeBron or Kemba. Smart is a better leader than those two. Butler was considered a bad teammate until he was around players that wanted to compete & play hard. I think the Celtics have some of those guys & that’s why they’ll respond to it.

Kemba is the 5the leader of the team & 75%+ of the league soured on Lebrun’s response on how he wanted to handle the league’s postponement.

Oh lord...Smart is a better leader than Lebron? The Smart love in this thread has reached truly absurd levels. Let's wait for Smart to get a ring or two before comparing him to the all-time playoff wins leader.

 

[BCSooners]

Oh lord...Smart is a better leader than Lebron? The Smart love in this thread has reached truly absurd levels. Let's wait for Smart to get a ring or two before comparing him to the all-time playoff wins leader.

LeBron is a great person & on average the best player in the league the last 15 years. That doesn’t mean he’s a great leader. Had multiple coaches fired, wanted Spoestra fired, wanted Kidd as now head coach, feuded with other stars such as Kylie, Love, Bosh, & completely phoned in last season.

 

[Eielson]

LeBron is a great person & on average the best player in the league the last 15 years. That doesn’t mean he’s a great leader. Had multiple coaches fired, wanted Spoestra fired, wanted Kidd as now head coach, feuded with other stars such as Kylie, Love, Bosh, & completely phoned in last season.

Your posts are usually well-thought out, but very little of this critique seems reasonable to me. The ultimate sign of leadership is winning games and championships. Leadership isn't entirely independent of ability on the court; in fact, I'd argue toward the opposite.

Sure, he had a hand in some coaching changes, but you just defended Kobe, who was 100% behind the release of one of the top 2 coaches of all time. If I'm not mistaken, he got another HOF coach fired in Rudy T. It's not suprising he didn't always see eye to eye with his coaches, as he may be the ultimate example of a player-coach.

He clashed with Kyrie, though that was largely jealousy/immaturity on Kyrie's part. If clashing with Kyrie is grounds for removing your leadership title, then you will have to revoke Smart's as well. MJ was not a beloved friend to hardly any of his teammates. He's not even friends with Pippen, while others like Horrace Grant hate his guts. He's still beefing with guys 20 years later.

I also think "phoning it in" is a pretty weak argument against Lebron. Like I mentioned earlier, the guy has won more playoff games than anybody ever. Year after year, Wade and/or Bosh would be injured in the playoffs, and he'd still carry the team through. Same thing in Cleveland with Kyrie and Love. I openly acknowledge he's one of the most gift physical specimens of all-time, but we're going on 17 years and he's still finishing top 2 in the MVP voting. The dude puts in work.

 

[WTSooner]

I might agree with you if this were Kobe, MJ, or Lebron. Maybe even a Kemba. But the last thing you need with your season on the brink is a role player losing his mind blaming everybody else and destroying the locker room. This was not a calculated move -- this was an immature kid that still can't control his temper. At least he didn't hop into the stands this time, but perhaps he would have if they weren't in the bubble.

Pardon my language, but there if no f*cking way YOU know if it was calculated or not. Smart might not be the best player on the team, but he is the team leader, and one of their more veteran guys. So yes, it makes a lot more sense for something like this to come from him, then from Tatum or Brown or even Kemba. Those guys don't really have the demeanor to lead that way.

Have you been watching their games? No? Cool, I have. They haven't played well since about the 1st half of Game 3 of the Toronto series. A LOT of selfish play. A lot of laziness and lack of effort. He (Smart) gave them basically 6 games to fix it themselves. It was BAD in game 2, so he called them on it. That is what leaders do. You are so hung up on what Smart isn't (an elite player), that you think that means he can't be the leader of the team. You've been wrong about him in this entire thread, not sure why I'd expect that to change now. And hey, what do you know, the next game after he ripped his teammates they play probably their best overall game in the last 6-7 games. Crazy, huh?

 

[WTSooner]

Oh lord...Smart is a better leader than Lebron? The Smart love in this thread has reached truly absurd levels. Let's wait for Smart to get a ring or two before comparing him to the all-time playoff wins leader.

Those two things have nothing to do with one another. At all.

Good Lord.

 

[Eielson]

Those two things have nothing to do with one another. At all.

Good Lord.

Leading and winning have nothing to do with each other? We clearly have different opinions about what good leadership means.

 

[Eielson]

Pardon my language, but there if no f*cking way YOU know if it was calculated or not.

For his sake, I hope hopping into the stands was not calculated. You may be right, though, as his thought process has never been very impressive.

 

[BCSooners]

For his sake, I hope hopping into the stands was not calculated. You may be right, though, as his thought process has never been very impressive.

I hated his guts in college & he still does annoying things (mainly flopping). But he’s been the vocal leader for the Celtics for probably the last 2-3 seasons.

Back to the LeBron thing we’ll just have to disagree. Best player on the planet, but to me it seems he just big times everybody when things aren’t working out & is always pointing the finger elsewhere. He’s the leader of his teams, except maybe Miami. I just think he’s an average leader, not a great leader.

 

[WTSooner]

Leading and winning have nothing to do with each other? We clearly have different opinions about what good leadership means.

You can win and not be a good leader. You can be a good leader and not win.

So yes.

 

[Eielson]

You can win and not be a good leader. You can be a good leader and not win.

So yes.

If leadership doesn't help you win, then wtf is the point of leadership?

 

[WTSooner]

If leadership doesn't help you win, then wtf is the point of leadership?

It's a component to winning. Talent is a greater and more important component. Surely you don't think leadership is ALL that matters? I could find 5 scrawny, non-athletic dudes that are great leaders. Doesn't mean they'll make a good basketball team.

 

[Eielson]

To me, leadership is about bottom lines. If you're leading a business, it doesn't matter how many great speeches you give or how nice you dress if your business isn't making money. At the end of the day, you want the guy that gets results leading your company. If the company is in the black every year, not much else matters (assuming it's sustainable and ethical). The fact that a leader is more intelligent or naturally gifted doesn't make them any less of a leader.

 

[Eielson]

I hated his guts in college & he still does annoying things (mainly flopping). But he’s been the vocal leader for the Celtics for probably the last 2-3 seasons.

Back to the LeBron thing we’ll just have to disagree. Best player on the planet, but to me it seems he just big times everybody when things aren’t working out & is always pointing the finger elsewhere. He’s the leader of his teams, except maybe Miami. I just think he’s an average leader, not a great leader.

When Lebron was down 3-1 to the 73 win Warriors, he said he still felt confident because he's the best player in the world, and then proceeded to cap off one of the greatest Finals performances of all time. To me, that's one of the greatest examples of leadership in NBA history.

Over the years, he's had to work through several less than ideal circumstances, but his teams have always performed at a high level regardless. He's dealt with some teams with very little talent in Cleveland. He's also had teams like Miami that were incredibly talented, but a bad fit, which he successfully worked through. Last year was about his only truly bad year (which was largely due to injuries), but sought out AD and turned this ship around in no time. For almost 20 years now, Lebron's teams have always been in contention no matter what. In almost every playoff series, you adamantly expect Lebron's team to win, and nobody ever counts him out no matter how long the odds (i.e. being down 3-1 to the the all-time winningest team). That's about more than physical gifts.

 

[BCSooners]

When Lebron was down 3-1 to the 73 win Warriors, he said he still felt confident because he's the best player in the world, and then proceeded to cap off one of the greatest Finals performances of all time. To me, that's one of the greatest examples of leadership in NBA history.

Over the years, he's had to work through several less than ideal circumstances, but his teams have always performed at a high level regardless. He's dealt with some teams with very little talent in Cleveland. He's also had teams like Miami that were incredibly talented, but a bad fit, which he successfully worked through. Last year was about his only truly bad year (which was largely due to injuries), but sought out AD and turned this ship around in no time. For almost 20 years now, Lebron's teams have always been in contention no matter what. In almost every playoff series, you adamantly expect Lebron's team to win, and nobody ever counts him out no matter how long the odds (i.e. being down 3-1 to the the all-time winningest team). That's about more than physical gifts.

That’s great & I don’t disagree with most of it, except the Miami excuse.

I just don’t like how he’s always trying to be the GM & how he handles certain things such as: The Decision, China, walking out on the ending the bubble season discussions.

Not just those reasons but I’m also biased. I loved when he entered the league & was a huge fan of his early on. Then he & the Celtics has their battles & naturally that just made me dislike him a little bit.