The Big 12 has accepted UCF, Cincy, Houston, and BYU

[thebigabd]

Re: So we may be seeing the Big 12 RIP.

Its not about winning you derp da derr . Its about $$$ and prestige/brand. Osu will have none now.

Playing against and losing to OU every season = prestige/brand? If OSU's brand and prestige is tied to another program they can't compete with, then they didn't have any prestige to begin with.

OSU will gain more prestige by avoiding OU at all costs and paving their own path. OU and Texas are a hindrance to them, not a benefit. Same for KSU, ISU, etc. Alabama, Georgia, and LSU are not a benefit to Arkansas, Vanderbilt, and Kentucky. They are a hindrance. Those programs have nothing to play for. They are an after thought.. They are mercenary programs at this point. They take their SEC television money and lay down, and shut up.

Arkansas is 13-51 in the SEC in the last 8 years. There is no prestige in that. In that time span they've gone winless 3 times. Why even be an Arkansas fan? You are cannon fodder playing in a semi-pro league. There is no value in being cannon fodder. Vanderbilt... Since 2009 they are 22-75 in the SEC. Same story. Just cannon fodder. There is no prestige or honor in it.

And for OSU, there is no prestige in being 2-13 against a team (Gundy vs OU) under their most successful regime. There is no glory in it. Only embarrassment.

 

[MsProudSooner]

Re: So we may be seeing the Big 12 RIP.

Playing against and losing to OU every season = prestige/brand? If OSU's brand and prestige is tied to another program they can't compete with, then they didn't have any prestige to begin with.

OSU will gain more prestige by avoiding OU at all costs and paving their own path. OU and Texas are a hindrance to them, not a benefit. Same for KSU, ISU, etc. Alabama, Georgia, and LSU are not a benefit to Arkansas, Vanderbilt, and Kentucky. They are a hindrance. Those programs have nothing to play for. They are an after thought.. They are mercenary programs at this point. They take their SEC television money and lay down, and shut up.

Arkansas is 13-51 in the SEC in the last 8 years. There is no prestige in that. In that time span they've gone winless 3 times. Why even be an Arkansas fan? You are cannon fodder playing in a semi-pro league. There is no value in being cannon fodder. Vanderbilt... Since 2009 they are 22-75 in the SEC. Same story. Just cannon fodder. There is no prestige or honor in it.

And for OSU, there is no prestige in being 2-13 against a team (Gundy vs OU) under their most successful regime. There is no glory in it. Only embarrassment.

I don't see winning 6 or 7 conference championships in a row in the near future, but you can't ignore the value of a better TV contract. It will allow us to keep pace in the facilities race. An inferior TV contract would eventually have a negative impact on all sports.

Would you really rather win more championships in an inferior conference?

Ever other team in the Big XII conference would have done the exact same thing OU did if given the opportunity. If they say otherwise, they are lying through their teeth!

 

[hoopsaustin]

Re: So we may be seeing the Big 12 RIP.

Playing against and losing to OU every season = prestige/brand? If OSU's brand and prestige is tied to another program they can't compete with, then they didn't have any prestige to begin with.

OSU will gain more prestige by avoiding OU at all costs and paving their own path. OU and Texas are a hindrance to them, not a benefit. Same for KSU, ISU, etc. Alabama, Georgia, and LSU are not a benefit to Arkansas, Vanderbilt, and Kentucky. They are a hindrance. Those programs have nothing to play for. They are an after thought.. They are mercenary programs at this point. They take their SEC television money and lay down, and shut up.

Arkansas is 13-51 in the SEC in the last 8 years. There is no prestige in that. In that time span they've gone winless 3 times. Why even be an Arkansas fan? You are cannon fodder playing in a semi-pro league. There is no value in being cannon fodder. Vanderbilt... Since 2009 they are 22-75 in the SEC. Same story. Just cannon fodder. There is no prestige or honor in it.

And for OSU, there is no prestige in being 2-13 against a team (Gundy vs OU) under their most successful regime. There is no glory in it. Only embarrassment.

Those are your personal values.. ask vanderbilt if they'd rather have their sec money or win more games in big 12.. get back with me when you get the answer

 

[skyvue]

Re: So we may be seeing the Big 12 RIP.

There are many oshwo fans who (outside of Bedlam) are happier with an OU loss than an oswho win. They are obsessed with OU and have been as long as I've been alive.

As for how oswho has benefited from playing OU every year (in addition to the previously stated financial benefits): Every year, they are featured (generally late in the season) in a nationally televised (and hyped) game. It is touted by the national media as a major rivalry, when, in fact, it is anything but, but that characterization elevates oswho's status.

At some point during the game, the announcers might mention OU's absurdly large lead in the series, but it's a passing reference. In the days leading up to the game, Bedlam is hyped as a rivalry to rival college football's greatest rivalries. That benefits oswho, not OU. In fact, it drives me a little nuts that OU hypes Bedlam as much as it does. It affords oswho a legitimacy (not to mention a big payday) the aggies have simply not earned.

 

[BCSooners]

Re: So we may be seeing the Big 12 RIP.

There are many oshwo fans who (outside of Bedlam) are happier with an OU loss than an oswho win. They are obsessed with OU and have been as long as I've been alive.

As for how oswho has benefited from playing OU every year (in addition to the previously stated financial benefits): Every year, they are featured (generally late in the season) in a nationally televised (and hyped) game. It is touted by the national media as a major rivalry, when, in fact, it is anything but, but that characterization elevates oswho's status.

At some point during the game, the announcers might mention OU's absurdly large lead in the series, but it's a passing reference. In the days leading up to the game, Bedlam is hyped as a rivalry to rival college football's greatest rivalries. That benefits oswho, not OU. In fact, it drives me a little nuts that OU hypes Bedlam as much as it does. It affords oswho a legitimacy (not to mention a big payday) the aggies have simply not earned.

Exactly, my parents' friend (who was also my youth minister) would talk so much ish when OU lost. I'd bring up that osu also lost, and he'd say "we're not supposed to win every game".

 

[thebigabd]

Re: So we may be seeing the Big 12 RIP.

Would you really rather win more championships in an inferior conference?

Let's use Arkansas as an example.... Would I rather be bribed (tv money) cannon fodder or be competitive and win championships somewhere else? I am a fan... I would rather see these kids lifting trophies, being competitive, going to bowl games, etc... Have something to cheer for. Why, as a fan, would I give a damn about TV money? I don't get TV money. The players don't get TV money. You think as a fan I am ok going 0-8 half the time because someone else got TV money? That's ridiculous, lol.

You think you can't have nice facilities without it? That's absurd. Boise State has insane locker room and football facilities... Lots of teams without big money do.

Lots of schools without massive TV money have great facilities.....

Those are your personal values.. ask vanderbilt if they'd rather have their sec money or win more games in big 12.. get back with me when you get the answer

Who am I asking at Vanderbilt? The guy who receives the TV money? Or the people who have absolutely nothing to cheer for on the field? Both?

What's amazing to me is how the BUSINESS of college football has oozed its way down into the fans who have nothing to gain from it... All of a sudden fans from across the country, who get none of this money, are super interested in TV contracts... And are dick-measuring one another not based on what happens on Saturdays, but by their schools market characteristics and profitability.

You know we've reached a low point in our culture when common fans care more about the business model and profit motive than playing football.

 

[skyvue]

Re: So we may be seeing the Big 12 RIP.

What's amazing to me is how the BUSINESS of college football has oozed its way down into the fans who have nothing to gain from it... All of a sudden fans from across the country, who get none of this money, are super interested in TV contracts... And are dick-measuring one another not based on what happens on Saturdays, but by their schools market characteristics and profitability.

You know we've reached a low point in our culture when common fans care more about the business model and profit motive than playing football.

I'm with you on this. I hate all the focus on money. I hate that fans who loathed the SEC for years are all a-twitter about OU diving into that cesspool because "we" will get so much more money.

I hate that the facilities race isn't matter of upgrades every decade or so -- it's every year (if not every month). "Necessary" upgrades to Memorial Stadium are cited constantly. The last time I got to attend an OU home game, I barely recognized the place and I'm sure that the next time I attend a game in Norman, it'll be unrecognizable since the last visit.

If I could flip a switch and magically return the state of college sports (football, especially) to the way it was in, say, 1995 (if not 1975), I wouldn't hesitate. The facilities are never good enough. The coaches never make enough (no college football coach should be making a million dollars a year, much less multiple millions); it's all overblown and overhyped.

I still enjoy cheering on Saturdays (and other days of the week for other sports), but it's all very much out of whack. Priorities are seriously skewed, but I'm fully aware there's no going back, sadly.

 

[BCSooners]

Re: So we may be seeing the Big 12 RIP.

Why, as a fan, would I give a damn about TV money? I don't get TV money. The players don't get TV money. You think as a fan I am ok going 0-8 half the time because someone else got TV money? That's ridiculous, lol.

What's amazing to me is how the BUSINESS of college football has oozed its way down into the fans who have nothing to gain from it... All of a sudden fans from across the country, who get none of this money, are super interested in TV contracts... And are dick-measuring one another not based on what happens on Saturdays, but by their schools market characteristics and profitability.

You know we've reached a low point in our culture when common fans care more about the business model and profit motive than playing football.

I agree with the fans shouldn't care about the money a school receives. But the football & all other programs should care. Increases their budget which should help put a better product on the field.

 

[MsProudSooner]

Re: So we may be seeing the Big 12 RIP.

I'm with you on this. I hate all the focus on money. I hate that fans who loathed the SEC for years are all a-twitter about OU diving into that cesspool because "we" will get so much more money.

I hate that the facilities race isn't matter of upgrades every decade or so -- it's every year (if not every month). "Necessary" upgrades to Memorial Stadium are cited constantly. The last time I got to attend an OU home game, I barely recognized the place and I'm sure that the next time I attend a game in Norman, it'll be unrecognizable since the last visit.

If I could flip a switch and magically return the state of college sports (football, especially) to the way it was in, say, 1995 (if not 1975), I wouldn't hesitate. The facilities are never good enough. The coaches never make enough (no college football coach should be making a million dollars a year, much less multiple millions); it's all overblown and overhyped.

I still enjoy cheering on Saturdays (and other days of the week for other sports), but it's all very much out of whack. Priorities are seriously skewed, but I'm fully aware there's no going back, sadly.

Put yourself in a time machine and go forward 5 or 10 years. Imagine that OU's Athletic Department budget has been stagnant for the past 5 years. Will the AD still be self-supporting or will we have to use state money? Will we still be able to keep up with the Joneses as far as paying coaches goes? The AD budget goes for more than just facilities. We all like to ridicule OSU for using state dollars for athletics. We certainly don't want to be there.

I'm one of those who didn't want to go to the SEC prior to this year. But the NIL changes everything. As things change, we have to change along with them or be left behind.

 

[skyvue]

Re: So we may be seeing the Big 12 RIP.

Put yourself in a time machine and go forward 5 or 10 years. Imagine that OU's Athletic Department budget has been stagnant for the past 5 years. Will the AD still be self-supporting or will we have to use state money? Will we still be able to keep up with the Joneses as far as paying coaches goes? The AD budget goes for more than just facilities. We all like to ridicule OSU for using state dollars for athletics. We certainly don't want to be there.

I'm one of those who didn't want to go to the SEC prior to this year. But the NIL changes everything. As things change, we have to change along with them or be left behind.

I'm sure you're right, but every new development takes us further away from what has, for my entire adult life, made me prefer collegiate athletics to professional sports. I'm not just bemoaning the move to the SEC; I'm bemoaning the developments of the past 30 or 40 years that have led to it and arguably made it necessary.

Thank heaven for softball.

 

[BoulderSooner]

Re: So we may be seeing the Big 12 RIP.

Thank heaven for softball.

which should be fire in the SEC ... and a bunch of the OU players have signed with lauren chamberlin's (sp?) firm ..

 

[skyvue]

Re: So we may be seeing the Big 12 RIP.

which should be fire in the SEC ... and a bunch of the OU players have signed with lauren chamberlin's (sp?) firm ..

Don't remind me that softball's "purity" is likely fleeting too.

 

[sheepdogs1]

Re: So we may be seeing the Big 12 RIP.

I'm sure you're right, but every new development takes us further away from what has, for my entire adult life, made me prefer collegiate athletics to professional sports. I'm not just bemoaning the move to the SEC; I'm bemoaning the developments of the past 30 or 40 years that have led to it and arguably made it necessary.

Thank heaven for softball.

What is occurring in college football is endemic with what is going on in college in general as the cost of education continues to skyrocket. The amount of dollars being poured into campus structures across the nation is an eye opener. When I attended college I knew of no one receiving aid yet today you would more likely have a hard time finding a student who is without this type of assistance versus those who do. The whole thing has become a business in a manner which is changing every aspect of the college experience for the academic side has set the precedent.

 

[NickZepp]

Re: So we may be seeing the Big 12 RIP.

Put yourself in a time machine and go forward 5 or 10 years. Imagine that OU's Athletic Department budget has been stagnant for the past 5 years. Will the AD still be self-supporting or will we have to use state money? Will we still be able to keep up with the Joneses as far as paying coaches goes? The AD budget goes for more than just facilities. We all like to ridicule OSU for using state dollars for athletics. We certainly don't want to be there.

I'm one of those who didn't want to go to the SEC prior to this year. But the NIL changes everything. As things change, we have to change along with them or be left behind.

The networks essentially said the next Big 12 deal would be about the same as it was when the other conferences all probably getting raises outside of the Pac 12 maybe. But what OU and Texas leaving will do to the remaining Big 12 teams is cut their budgets in half or more than half pretty quickly. They won't be getting a 40 million dollar each deal it'll be around 15-20 mil max. Maybe even less. You will probably see a lot of the established coaches either step down or take massive pay cuts in the next couple years just because of this alone. For the 4 programs coming in that's a little bit different because they will actually increase their budgets particularly the AAC teams. But seeing most of the programs have to make cuts is going to be a disaster in the long term.

 

[thebigabd]

Re: So we may be seeing the Big 12 RIP.

The networks essentially said the next Big 12 deal would be about the same as it was when the other conferences all probably getting raises outside of the Pac 12 maybe. But what OU and Texas leaving will do to the remaining Big 12 teams is cut their budgets in half or more than half pretty quickly. They won't be getting a 40 million dollar each deal it'll be around 15-20 mil max. Maybe even less. You will probably see a lot of the established coaches either step down or take massive pay cuts in the next couple years just because of this alone. For the 4 programs coming in that's a little bit different because they will actually increase their budgets particularly the AAC teams. But seeing most of the programs have to make cuts is going to be a disaster in the long term.

I hate that I am partaking in this kind of banter.... because, again, it's ridiculous that we as fans are doing so and that the sport is in this position in the first place.

Let's use Wyoming as an example. It's obscure. Mountain West. Lowest population in the nation. Very little TV money.

Wyoming's TV Money: $4 million per year
Head Coach: Craig Bohl
Salary: $1.5 million
Wyoming Football Facility: High Altitude Sports Complex
Link: https://gowyo.com/facilities/high-altitude-performance-center/23

Now lets look at.... Arkansas. SEC team. SEC television money. Etc.

Arkansas TV Money: $55 million per year
Head Coach: Sam Pittman
Salary: $3 million per year
Arkansas Football Facility: Fred W. Smith Football Center
Link: https://flintco.com/our-work/projects/university-of-arkansas-fred-w-smith-football-center/

There is barely a discernable difference between their training facilities.... Arkansas obviously has a much larger stadium... because its not in Wyoming. They make a ga-jillion more in TV money and pay their coach double. Get nothing for it. Hell, I'd probably hire Craig Bohl over Sam Pittman anyway....

You'd be stunned at how all these training facilities look exactly the same... Go look up Wyoming, San Diego State, Boise State, BYU, etc... compare it to SEC and Big 12 teams. They look exactly the same. The big difference is stadium sizes. But even a lot of those stadiums were built a long time go and just got renovated. It's not like modern TV money funded the construction of Gaylord Memorial Stadium or any of these other venues.

So, you are saying the estimates for the "new" Big 12 will be $15 or $20 million a year, right? So Wyoming pays its coach $1.5 million with $4 million in TV money... but you don't think Kansas State can pay Chris Klieman the $2.5 million per year he is used to with $20 million in TV money?

And all that TV money seems to be doing jack **** for Arkansas, Vanderbilt, Kentucky, etc... This whole thing is just so overblown...

And, by the way, with OU and Texas joining the SEC, these cannon fodder programs are getting even more cannon foddery. At this point they are just lining pockets to build fancy new crap I guess. They have no real interest in winning.

 

[thebigabd]

Re: So we may be seeing the Big 12 RIP.

I show the Wyoming comparison because its to Skyvue's point.... the facility is never good enough. The weights are never good enough... The locker rooms are never good enough... The coach can never get paid enough... Wyoming pays $1.5 million a year. Kansas State pays $2.5 million a year. Lincoln Riley makes $7.5 million a year. Jim Harbaugh makes $8 million a year... Whatever...

In a couple years, Riley will be making $10 million a year... They will have new locker rooms I guess... New weight facility... Some new crap in the stadium... And we will just keep repeating the cycle.

 

[hoopsaustin]

Re: So we may be seeing the Big 12 RIP.

Let's use Arkansas as an example.... Would I rather be bribed (tv money) cannon fodder or be competitive and win championships somewhere else? I am a fan... I would rather see these kids lifting trophies, being competitive, going to bowl games, etc... Have something to cheer for. Why, as a fan, would I give a damn about TV money? I don't get TV money. The players don't get TV money. You think as a fan I am ok going 0-8 half the time because someone else got TV money? That's ridiculous, lol.

You think you can't have nice facilities without it? That's absurd. Boise State has insane locker room and football facilities... Lots of teams without big money do.

Lots of schools without massive TV money have great facilities.....



Who am I asking at Vanderbilt? The guy who receives the TV money? Or the people who have absolutely nothing to cheer for on the field? Both?

What's amazing to me is how the BUSINESS of college football has oozed its way down into the fans who have nothing to gain from it... All of a sudden fans from across the country, who get none of this money, are super interested in TV contracts... And are dick-measuring one another not based on what happens on Saturdays, but by their schools market characteristics and profitability.

You know we've reached a low point in our culture when common fans care more about the business model and profit motive than playing football.

I hate the money talk. I hate that we're leaving the big 12. Most, like me, though are talking about what ou's going to do from an institutional perspective not a fans, like you. Of course I'm not going to get a dime personally from any of this. That's not what I'm talking about so that point doesn't matter and maybe that is the disconnect from you and most of the board. I think most aren't talking about what they WISHED wed do. They are talking about what's going to happen

 

[WTSooner]

Re: So we may be seeing the Big 12 RIP.

It would have been interesting to see what the Big 12 would have been willing to do to keep OU/Texas. As soon as the news broke, they pretty quickly offered 1.5 shares to each OU/Texas. What would have been enough? If I'm not mistaken, 1.5 shares would have put OU/Texas in the same ball part as the SEC/Big 10 payouts, or possibly higher. Would the Big 12 have agreed to 1.75 or 2.00 shares? It doesn't appear OU/Texas gave them that opportunity.

I too wish we'd have found a way to make the Big 12 work. I get it though. I understand why we are leaving. But from a football perspective, we're about to find out just how tough the SEC really is. A big wake-up call is coming.

 

[BoulderSooner]

Re: So we may be seeing the Big 12 RIP.

It would have been interesting to see what the Big 12 would have been willing to do to keep OU/Texas. As soon as the news broke, they pretty quickly offered 1.5 shares to each OU/Texas. What would have been enough? If I'm not mistaken, 1.5 shares would have put OU/Texas in the same ball part as the SEC/Big 10 payouts, or possibly higher. Would the Big 12 have agreed to 1.75 or 2.00 shares? It doesn't appear OU/Texas gave them that opportunity.

I too wish we'd have found a way to make the Big 12 work. I get it though. I understand why we are leaving. But from a football perspective, we're about to find out just how tough the SEC really is. A big wake-up call is coming.

the issue was not OU and texas being above the BIG and SEC now ..

texas is #1 in tv revenue currently and OU almost = with the SEC (until 2025)

but starting in 2025 those conf are both going to 70-80 mil a year ..

also OU doesn't really have a place to go to keep their 3rd tier at 7/8 mil that it currently is so OU would be at 60 ish and still way behind those leagues ..

 

[thebigabd]

Re: So we may be seeing the Big 12 RIP.

Arkansas Recruiting Rankings
2015 Recruiting Rank - 25
2016 Recruiting Rank - 30
2017 Recruiting Rank - 24
2018 Recruiting Rank - 61
2019 Recruiting Rank - 20
2020 Recruiting Rank - 41
2021 Recruiting Rank - 25

Average Since 2015: 32.2

$55 million a year in TV money, SEC recruiting territory, and top 30 recruiting classes is good enough to go 12-38 in SEC play since 2015. Including two 0-8 finishes and a 1-7 finish.

Boise State Recruiting Rankings
2015 Recruiting Rank: 64
2016 Recruiting Rank: 54
2017 Recruiting Rank: 66
2018 Recruiting Rank: 56
2019 Recruiting Rank: 63
2020 Recruiting Rank: 88
2021 Recruiting Rank: 77

Average Since 2015: 66.8

Boise has won the Mountain West 6 out of 7 times in this span and been a regular fixture in the top 25.

I am guessing Boise State fans are happier than Arkansas fans. They have a reason to show up to the stadium and watch their team play. They aren't cannon fodder.