The cold hard truth

[WichitaSooner]

This is all spot-on. It’s a front-running fanbase across the board. Football will always generate interest and chatter even when bad or mediocre. But tickets this year were as easy to get as ever and plenty games cleared out early. Our football fans are definitely supportive and people do care deeply about the program and its history and place in the national conversation, but even in football, I don’t think we classify as a “rabid” fanbase. No one talks about how Memorial Stadium shakes or the Gameday atmosphere is a madhouse like in Baton Rouge or something.

And yes, for the other sports, they have to be AWESOME for people to care. Sure, the softball team is getting crazy support right now. They are also perhaps the greatest softball team EVER. I think we all know it wouldn’t be this way if Gasso’s team was merely “good.” I mean our baseball team went to the College WS Final and six weeks prior was playing home games in a tiny stadium on a beautiful spring day with barely anyone there.

I love Norman. I live in Edmond and love going down whenever we can. Our fans are proud of our school and I think we mostly rep ourselves favorably. But this is not a particularly rowdy or passionate fanbase in general.

So well said. Agree with all of it.

 

[stormspencer]

The problem is the fans. The program (AD and Coaches) has a remarkably impressive history in spite of the worst fans in the country.

Not to pick on you, but you essentially contradicted your point in your statement above. OU has a very good basketball history despite having the worst fans/supports. Thus, logic would tell us that we can continue to have a good program in spite of our lack of fans/support.

My preference would be to have a full house every night. We can debate whether or not that would make a difference in wins/losses, but it certainly would be ideal to have that type of fan support. But fair or unfair, no one is going to show up to watch that product on the court, especially if you're losing home games (and home games to SHSU at that). PM has to win games or the fan support will continue to dwindle. If he wins a few, then maybe/hopefully we will see an uptick.

 

[opsooner]

How quickly we forget that Lon’s career at OU started with a 15-16 record the first season. He righted the ship the next year and eventually led the team to a FF run.

What bothered me more than anything about Lon was the 11-20 disaster following our Final Four season six years later, proving that HOF coaches can have bad seasons too.

I’m not totally happy with this team, but I think there are brighter days ahead with our returning players next season and the recruits Moser’s staff signed. Time will tell if I’m right.

This is about where I am but I am probably a little more worried than this. I think Porter is a good coach and our D is not great but with the athletes we have is very sound and we can win with it. I like him and I want to give him more time.

But the offense is very concerning to me. Our best offense tonight (and any other night) was by far when we were way behind and we attacked and kicked out for open shots. But once we caught up we went right back to the half court cocoon.

I want to see a team that wants to smartly attack on offense and plays like they want to win instead of afraid to lose. Actually, we often play more like we are afraid to win. I know we don’t have the players we need yet but I would rather lose while smartly attacking and failing than by standing around and basically stalling until we are forced to shoot.

I had similar criticism of Lon at times but when he got the talent and developed it the offense was much different and better. I am hoping the same thing happens with Porter.


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[WichitaSooner]

This is about where I am but I am probably a little more worried than this. I think Porter is a good coach and our D is not great but with the athletes we have is very sound and we can win with it. I like him and I want to give him more time.

But the offense is very concerning to me. Our best offense tonight (and any other night) was by far when we were way behind and we attacked and kicked out for open shots. But once we caught up we went right back to the half court cocoon.

I want to see a team that wants to smartly attack on offense and plays like they want to win instead of afraid to lose. Actually, we often play more like we are afraid to win. I know we don’t have the players we need yet but I would rather lose while smartly attacking and failing than by standing around and basically stalling until we are forced to shoot.

I had similar criticism of Lon at times but when he got the talent and developed it the offense was much different and better. I am hoping the same thing happens with Porter.


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The other thing about our offense: if you are going to play that slow, plodding style, which means very few possessions in the game, it is even more important to take care of the ball. Playing slow and turning the ball over a lot is as bad a combo as you can have.

 

[TINY]

Not to pick on you, but you essentially contradicted your point in your statement above. OU has a very good basketball history despite having the worst fans/supports. Thus, logic would tell us that we can continue to have a good program in spite of our lack of fans/support.

My preference would be to have a full house every night. We can debate whether or not that would make a difference in wins/losses, but it certainly would be ideal to have that type of fan support. But fair or unfair, no one is going to show up to watch that product on the court, especially if you're losing home games (and home games to SHSU at that). PM has to win games or the fan support will continue to dwindle. If he wins a few, then maybe/hopefully we will see an uptick.

Ou hoops has proven that great administration can build a top 20 program all time, but it cannot get over that hump until the fans support it both financially and in attendance.

Moser took over a team that had very little returning talent, and less time to recruit since his loyola team made it to the 2nd weekend of tournament. Last year was a complete throw away (yet we still made the NIT).

He is rebuilding the program with talented high school players. We are recruiting at a level that we haven’t historically, so I’m hopeful it will pan out when they mature together a bit more (might not be this year).

 

[WichitaSooner]

Ou hoops has proven that great administration can build a top 20 program all time, but it cannot get over that hump until the fans support it both financially and in attendance.

Moser took over a team that had very little returning talent, and less time to recruit since his loyola team made it to the 2nd weekend of tournament. Last year was a complete throw away (yet we still made the NIT).

He is rebuilding the program with talented high school players. We are recruiting at a level that we haven’t historically, so I’m hopeful it will pan out when they mature together a bit more (might not be this year).

He returned three starters from a team that made the second round of the tournament. And he was hired before the NCAA tournament was over, long before most players in the portal had made decisions on where to go. It’s not like most programs hire coaches weeks before then.

So in your estimation, is Tang the greatest coach of all time? Or the ISU coach? They inherited, for all intents and purposes, nothing. I guess somebody forgot to tell them their first year was a throwaway and that there was no chance of making the tournament.

 

[TINY]

He returned three starters from a team that made the second round of the tournament. And he was hired before the NCAA tournament was over, long before most players in the portal had made decisions on where to go. It’s not like most programs hire coaches weeks before then.

So in your estimation, is Tang the greatest coach of all time? Or the ISU coach? They inherited, for all intents and purposes, nothing. I guess somebody forgot to tell them their first year was a throwaway and that there was no chance of making the tournament.

We returned 4 guys total Gibson, Harkless, hill, and issanza. That is a worse roster than Lon inherited (but Lon had the probation issues to deal with). Kstate and isu both paid a lot of money for their transfers and ou doesn’t do that, so it will require more time for us. Unless our fans are willing to put together a competitive NIL hoops program, then we will have to build it the hard way.

 

[opsooner]

The other thing about our offense: if you are going to play that slow, plodding style, which means very few possessions in the game, it is even more important to take care of the ball. Playing slow and turning the ball over a lot is as bad a combo as you can have.

Agree with that and that style also significantly contributes to turnovers.


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[WichitaSooner]

We returned 4 guys total Gibson, Harkless, hill, and issanza. That is a worse roster than Lon inherited (but Lon had the probation issues to deal with). Kstate and isu both paid a lot of money for their transfers and ou doesn’t do that, so it will require more time for us. Unless our fans are willing to put together a competitive NIL hoops program, then we will have to build it the hard way.

I bet you could poll all 300+ college basketball coaches and not find a single one who thinks the roster he inherited was worse than what Lon did. What did we win Capel’s last year, 12 games or something? We were AWFUL and had been for two years.

How do you know KSU and ISU are paying players? I live in Kansas and read all the beat writers. It’s always pretty well reported when any of the Kansas schools have a player sign a meaningful NIL deal. I’ve not heard a single story of a KSU basketball player getting meaningful money. They lost their best player from last season specifically because of NIL. I always see OU fans acting as if every other program in the conference is paying guys big money. If that’s true, I’d love to see sources. Otherwise it just seems like speculation, and like an excuse for why we “can’t win. I guess any time we lose, we can just say the other team pays guys and that is supposed to make us feel better?

 

[TINY]

I bet you could poll all 300+ college basketball coaches and not find a single one who thinks the roster he inherited was worse than what Lon did. What did we win Capel’s last year, 12 games or something? We were AWFUL and had been for two years.

How do you know KSU and ISU are paying players? I live in Kansas and read all the beat writers. It’s always pretty well reported when any of the Kansas schools have a player sign a meaningful NIL deal. I’ve not heard a single story of a KSU basketball player getting meaningful money. They lost their best player from last season specifically because of NIL. I always see OU fans acting as if every other program in the conference is paying guys big money. If that’s true, I’d love to see sources. Otherwise it just seems like speculation, and like an excuse for why we “can’t win. I guess any time we lose, we can just say the other team pays guys and that is supposed to make us feel better?

Tang learned how to ”recruit” from Scott drew. Miami just outbid them for their player who transferred.

And there is not a single coach worth a damn who would take hill, Gibson, issanza, Harkless over:

cam Clark (5 star)
Romero osby (4 star)
Steven pledger (4 star)
Fitzgerald (4 star)
Tyler Neal (3 star)
Sam grooms (3 star)

 

[soonerjunky]

I've been watching OU basketball since the Najera days and I hate seeing the program like this. This team may not win another game this season. They can't score, close out games, and athletically they're far behind. Uzan is young and struggles with decisions, Sherfield is amazing (wish he was 6'5"), Cortez- ugh stop playing him, Tanner is not athletic enough. PLAY BENNY! Way to many unforced turnovers

 

[WichitaSooner]

Tang learned how to ”recruit” from Scott drew. Miami just outbid them for their player who transferred.

And there is not a single coach worth a damn who would take hill, Gibson, issanza, Harkless over:

cam Clark (5 star)
Romero osby (4 star)
Steven pledger (4 star)
Fitzgerald (4 star)
Tyler Neal (3 star)
Sam grooms (3 star)

So in other worlds, pure speculation. Look at their roster and where the guys they got played previously. They weren’t exactly high profile kids who KSU had a lot of competition for. He identified the right guys, and has them playing a fun style. There is zero chance any of those kids got significant money. And they were just about the only school willing to medically clear Johnson.

 

[OklaSooners]

Anyone who wants to help should donate to https://crimsoncreamcollective.com/subscribe/. I did a one time donation and selected basketball only. That way it will not be used for football recruits.

 

[tmeyer3307]

Father in law and I came from the Wichita area last night to watch Caleb Grill(got tickets behind ISU bench from his family) I'm an OU fan though. Pretty fun to watch the game that low and see how physical the big 12 really is. Couple thoughts from myself and my father in law who has coached D2 bball for 20 years and knows the game.

Cortes is a dude! He loves the kid. Last night he played a major roll in getting us back into the game. We all agreed, that if Cortes was in a different system(fast paced offense) he would be so tough to stop. The guy is a next level passer and needs more freedom. Needs to be playing 20+ mins.

Jalen Hill.. Very impressed with him. I think we all get frustrated with him at times because of his inability to shoot/score.. but the guy makes us go.. He's an elite defender and seems like a great kid/leader. Would love for him to come back next season.

Groves brothers.. Tanner battles, gets worked every night in the big 12. I know we all want a better athlete at that spot for us, but he's not the problem. Jacob must be better. He's got to hit open shots.. He does seem like one of the few guys on the team that can cause match up problems on the offensive end. I think he is an average to good player and will continue to get better.

I understand our system and thought behind it, but we have 3 pgs that could thrive in a fast tempo offense. Playing half court offense against these big 12 teams doesn't make sense with the current roster. This team is fun to watch in a way because they just battle and never give up..

Last night's game I think goes on the fans. We left saying, man OU should have won that game if not for that terrible start... Players had no energy/lack of noise from fans. ISU doesn't legit make everything and get off to that kind of start if the fans are in the building!! I came from 3 hours away.. would kill to live 1-2 hours away and support this group.

 

[soonerjunky]

Father in law and I came from the Wichita area last night to watch Caleb Grill(got tickets behind ISU bench from his family) I'm an OU fan though. Pretty fun to watch the game that low and see how physical the big 12 really is. Couple thoughts from myself and my father in law who has coached D2 bball for 20 years and knows the game.

Cortes is a dude! He loves the kid. Last night he played a major roll in getting us back into the game. We all agreed, that if Cortes was in a different system(fast paced offense) he would be so tough to stop. The guy is a next level passer and needs more freedom. Needs to be playing 20+ mins.

Jalen Hill.. Very impressed with him. I think we all get frustrated with him at times because of his inability to shoot/score.. but the guy makes us go.. He's an elite defender and seems like a great kid/leader. Would love for him to come back next season.

Groves brothers.. Tanner battles, gets worked every night in the big 12. I know we all want a better athlete at that spot for us, but he's not the problem. Jacob must be better. He's got to hit open shots.. He does seem like one of the few guys on the team that can cause match up problems on the offensive end. I think he is an average to good player and will continue to get better.

I understand our system and thought behind it, but we have 3 pgs that could thrive in a fast tempo offense. Playing half court offense against these big 12 teams doesn't make sense with the current roster. This team is fun to watch in a way because they just battle and never give up..

Last night's game I think goes on the fans. We left saying, man OU should have won that game if not for that terrible start... Players had no energy/lack of noise from fans. ISU doesn't legit make everything and get off to that kind of start if the fans are in the building!! I came from 3 hours away.. would kill to live 1-2 hours away and support this group.

Dont get us excited with this fast pace scheme!

 

[WichitaSooner]

Father in law and I came from the Wichita area last night to watch Caleb Grill(got tickets behind ISU bench from his family) I'm an OU fan though. Pretty fun to watch the game that low and see how physical the big 12 really is. Couple thoughts from myself and my father in law who has coached D2 bball for 20 years and knows the game.

Cortes is a dude! He loves the kid. Last night he played a major roll in getting us back into the game. We all agreed, that if Cortes was in a different system(fast paced offense) he would be so tough to stop. The guy is a next level passer and needs more freedom. Needs to be playing 20+ mins.

Jalen Hill.. Very impressed with him. I think we all get frustrated with him at times because of his inability to shoot/score.. but the guy makes us go.. He's an elite defender and seems like a great kid/leader. Would love for him to come back next season.

Groves brothers.. Tanner battles, gets worked every night in the big 12. I know we all want a better athlete at that spot for us, but he's not the problem. Jacob must be better. He's got to hit open shots.. He does seem like one of the few guys on the team that can cause match up problems on the offensive end. I think he is an average to good player and will continue to get better.

I understand our system and thought behind it, but we have 3 pgs that could thrive in a fast tempo offense. Playing half court offense against these big 12 teams doesn't make sense with the current roster. This team is fun to watch in a way because they just battle and never give up..

Last night's game I think goes on the fans. We left saying, man OU should have won that game if not for that terrible start... Players had no energy/lack of noise from fans. ISU doesn't legit make everything and get off to that kind of start if the fans are in the building!! I came from 3 hours away.. would kill to live 1-2 hours away and support this group.

Excellent point -- I know playing slow is usually a decent strategy when you are less athletic than most (all) teams on the schedule, but when you have three point guards on the roster, and no bigs who thrive in the post, it really does make a ton of sense to try to play faster, especially at home. And as he said, Big 12 defenses are so good that you don't want to have to play against them in the halfcourt all night. Look at what KSU did to Texas and what TCU did to Baylor -- we don't have the same athletic ability, but it shows that playing before the defense is set makes a lot of sense.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

This team/program is in trouble. For all the folks who wanted Lon to retire or be pushed out … how do you feel now?

I'd still much rather have Moser right now than Lon.
Moser is recruiting at a higher level. We need athletes.
We are still playing better than I thought we would at the start of the year.
We've played 2 ranked teams in the toughest conference and lost by a total of 4 points. Yeah it sucks but we are playing at a higher level than our talent is

 

[SoonerBounce13]

I've been watching OU basketball since the Najera days and I hate seeing the program like this. This team may not win another game this season. They can't score, close out games, and athletically they're far behind. Uzan is young and struggles with decisions, Sherfield is amazing (wish he was 6'5"), Cortez- ugh stop playing him, Tanner is not athletic enough. PLAY BENNY! Way to many unforced turnovers

lol clown post

 

[WichitaSooner]

I'd still much rather have Moser right now than Lon.
Moser is recruiting at a higher level. We need athletes.
We are still playing better than I thought we would at the start of the year.
We've played 2 ranked teams in the toughest conference and lost by a total of 4 points. Yeah it sucks but we are playing at a higher level than our talent is

I prefer winning games and making the tournament to recruiting rankings. And if your expectations were somehow lower than 9-5 at this point after a soft noncon schedule, that's saying something.

We have far more talent than Sam Houston. Lost to them at home. We are better than this year's Villanova team. Lost to them. And while ISU is good, they aren't exactly athletically gifted. Lost to them at home despite going on a 20-0 run. Arkansas and Texas, sure, they are on a different level. We will lose plenty of games to teams like that, which makes it crucial not to dump home games to Sam Houston and Iowa State.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

I prefer winning games and making the tournament to recruiting rankings. And if your expectations were somehow lower than 9-5 at this point after a soft noncon schedule, that's saying something.

Yes my expectations for this team were not high. Not because of Moser but because of the turnover we saw and not over valueing the guys coming in. Shef is better than I thouht. JoeB is worse than I thought but I was highly skeptical of him. I prefer winning games too but let's not act like Lon's teams were super talented towards the tale end of his time here.

We have far more talent than Sam Houston. Lost to them at home. We are better than this year's Villanova team. Lost to them. And while ISU is good, they aren't exactly athletically gifted. Lost to them at home despite going on a 20-0 run. Arkansas and Texas, sure, they are on a different level. We will lose plenty of games to teams like that, which makes it crucial not to dump home games to Sam Houston and Iowa State.

I'm not sure why you are so stuck on Sam Houston. It was the first game of the season with new faces. Weird things happen the first game of the season. I am fairly confident we would beat them handily if we played again.


I've never seen this fanbase so up and down with a team. We lose a game and fans go ape****. We win a game and fans think we are going to make a run in the tourney. We aren't a bad team. We aren't a great team. Give it time and just enjoy the ride.