The cold hard truth

[SoonerBounce13]

Let's just look at our rankings. (kenpom/rpi). Kenpom is the entire season. RPI is ranking as of Jan 5

Kenpom entire season/RPI as of jan 5/RPI total season
2023: 37/80
2022:30/50/73
2021:39/69/51
2020: 36/21/39
2019: 32/2/34
2018:48/3/53
2017: 65/158/161
2016:10/3/6
2015:11/27/20
2014:30/331/31 (not sure what is going on here)
2013: 51/25/45
2012: 105/40/136

Kruger Averages: 43/38/58
Porter Averages:33.5/65/73

I don't know what any of this means. Take away from it what you want.
It took Lon a couple of years to get going. His first year was terrible and imo left with more than moser had his first year. It is pretty obvious the years Lon had a super star player on the roster as well. I don't hold that against him. The numbers also validate my memory that we seemed to start really hot with Lon and then hit a wall at the end of the season.

I guess in summary, I don't mind where we are as a team. I see effort and defense being played with a pretty unathletic team. I would still give him 2 more years after this year.

 

[soonerjunky]

lol clown post

Which part? Cortez has 0 confidence scoring and dumb turnovers from passes that he shouldnt attempt.

Sherfield is legit! He'd be a top 10 pick if he had great size.

Benny has shown the desire to score when he enters games. Since, OU isn't going to win any more (may 1 or 2), they should let him develop.

 

[tmeyer3307]

Which part? Cortez has 0 confidence scoring and dumb turnovers from passes that he shouldnt attempt.

Sherfield is legit! He'd be a top 10 pick if he had great size.

Benny has shown the desire to score when he enters games. Since, OU isn't going to win any more (may 1 or 2), they should let him develop.

I've watched every game and I've never seen Benny show anything.. like at all. Cortes is a legit.. I mean legit high level PG that is by far our best passer on the team. He's had multiple games this year where he has taken over.. given energy to the team when needed type of plays/stretches. Is he perfect?? No.. he's not super great on the defensive end.. not the best shooter.. but the guy can see the floor and make things happen for others on the team.. His numbers don't show it, but the guy can flat out play!

 

[soonerjunky]

I've watched every game and I've never seen Benny show anything.. like at all. Cortes is a legit.. I mean legit high level PG that is by far our best passer on the team. He's had multiple games this year where he has taken over.. given energy to the team when needed type of plays/stretches. Is he perfect?? No.. he's not super great on the defensive end.. not the best shooter.. but the guy can see the floor and make things happen for others on the team.. His numbers don't show it, but the guy can flat out play!

Not many back up PG's on a average team are "Legit". Not many guys who cant score or play defense are "Legit". Carry on

He's played some decent ball at times. Been a spark.

Benny has played in 2 games. In both games, he scores with ease and is aggressive.

 

[steverocks35]

If Cortes was a "legit high-level point guard" he would be starting since we aren't very good. I think he can score some but he's erratic and he get's abused on defense

 

[skyvue]

Villanova is 53rd and Sam Houston is 78th in the current Kenpom rankings, which puts them both well within the top 25% of D1 teams. Neither is as bad as some have painted them. Both losses were frustrating, but Sam Houston went on an early-season tear and it was a last-second shot that beat us; Villanova was desperate for a win, was playing in their second-home arena and had just gotten one of their best players back from injury.

 

[Soonerguy06]

I was there Saturday and again tonight; took the whole family (5 of us) to both.

Tonight was awful. Crowd was good Saturday— I would say 90% full and energized. Tonight was maybe 30% and dead.

The lack of interest/support/enthusiasm around the program is not Moser’s fault. Not at all. I don’t pin any of that on him. We all know that story. Tonight I actually felt bad for him as implored the crowd to get loud a few times— but he was imploring to mostly empty seats.

It’s a bad, bad mix right now. He inherited a program that had become stagnant with a mostly disinterested fanbase. The only way you can infuse life into that situation it to be good and/or exciting. So far, his teams have been neither. They are average and boring. A team that absolutely cannot score playing a conf game in front of 70% empty seats? That’s a hard sell. It’s a hard sell for casual fans. It’s a hard sell for recruits.

The team DOES play hard. Effort is not an issue. And Moser gives it all he has I’m sure. I like him personally. And you don’t get to where he is without understanding the game. But a lot more goes into winning at a place like OU. He has time. There is time left in this season. And as others have stated, I think at MINIMUM he gets a third year. But this season and his tenure here is off to a very “meh” start.

Specific to THIS year, goodness it looks just like last year. This team has NIT written all over them (IF they qualify and finish .500 of course). 0-2 with two home losses is a disaster for us in B12. We are staring 0-4 in the face. It will take a minimum 7 wins to be in serious tourney convos— which would mean starting 0-4 and then going 7-7 the rest of the way— probably a tough task. And 7-11 probably wouldn’t cut it unless some of those wins were against KU, Baylor, etc.

A real damning thing is how I felt when ISU turned the ball over on the in-bounds play with 8 seconds left. I was disappointed the refs went to the monitor which created a timeout we didn’t have. Felt it would have been better to just throw it in to someone and let them wing it. Giving Moser and ISU both time to draw up a plan was going to go poorly for us. Sure enough, we didn’t even attempt a shot— common theme down the stretch tonight.

It all feels very blah. I know the guy is trying. And he probably feels like he’s on an island; doing it with pretty minimal support— which is true. Besides the paycheck, which I know matters, I sometimes wonder if he looks around and wishes he was back in Chicago.

I agree it seems the fan support is minimal....Even when our women, who are ranked #17 played #23 Baylor on Tuesday evening it looked like an almost empty facility....no wonder they started out like they were still asleep and put themselves in a hole they struggled to climb out of the whole game. IDK what the answer is, but somethings gotta give. Maybe if Venables can't retain the success we've had the past 20 years in FB the attention will shift elsewhere? IDK...with the portal being as it is, it's nothing for a player to move on after I year instead of sticking it out and developing in one system, so that seems to make it that much harder to build. BUT everyone else is also experiencing the portal madness so who knows. I truly hope our team can figure it out because a repeat of last year would be a dang shame, and it certainly won't help with recruiting!

 

[tmeyer3307]

Not many back up PG's on a average team are "Legit". Not many guys who cant score or play defense are "Legit". Carry on

He's played some decent ball at times. Been a spark.

Benny has played in 2 games. In both games, he scores with ease and is aggressive.

Telling you.. he can go!! Defensively he's getting better. He needs more than 12-16 min a game though. A better system and he looks/plays different. That's coming from a D2 coach that knows his stuff.. He's been my favorite player as well

 

[CMSOONER]

Tang learned how to ”recruit” from Scott drew. Miami just outbid them for their player who transferred.

And there is not a single coach worth a damn who would take hill, Gibson, issanza, Harkless over:

cam Clark (5 star)
Romero osby (4 star)
Steven pledger (4 star)
Fitzgerald (4 star)
Tyler Neal (3 star)
Sam grooms (3 star)

I'd take Gibson and Harkless over Grooms every time.

 

[cowboysooner]

I like the direction we are going in and believe Moser will be successful here. It may take a little longer than some are willing to accept. Of course, you never know what the future holds. But, so far so good, for me. As usual, there can be reasonable differences of opinion.

Single biggest reason for reduced attendance IMO is the economics of attending a game vs. watching on television. Average worker makes the same now as forty years ago, and they probably had health insurance and a company funded pension back then. We have been turning into Mexico for the last 40 years. A handful at the top with all the money and the rest impoverished.

Second biggest reason is the gym. It has to be full for there to be any environment, the seats are extremely unconfortable, and if you are in the lower bowl, you have to climb Mt. Everest to get concessions or go to the bathroom. It is and was build to be a muti event center that could hold a basketball game. We need a basketball arena. Go to Maybe and DonRey centers here in tulsa to watch basketball games and enjoy it.

I would love to go to OU basketball games, and I make a few a year, but I am very uncomfortable and don't enjoy going in person any longer at Noble. So, I try to go to games in better arenas. This being said, if we don't have the money for a new stadium then we don't. I don't believe the University should borrow to get it done.

Anyway, I intend to support the team in whatever way I can and hope we win enough this year to make the NCAAs. If not and like I said above, I still think we are going in the right direction. Sometimes the quick fix isn't always the best.

 

[scrybe]

I've been watching OU basketball since the Najera days and I hate seeing the program like this. This team may not win another game this season. They can't score, close out games, and athletically they're far behind. Uzan is young and struggles with decisions, Sherfield is amazing (wish he was 6'5"), Cortez- ugh stop playing him, Tanner is not athletic enough. PLAY BENNY! Way to many unforced turnovers

Really?

 

[TINY]

I'd take Gibson and Harkless over Grooms every time.

No question about Gibson. Harkless v grooms is a bit closer for me but harkless defense/rebounding gives him the edge. Grooms was a smart player who could handle/pass the ball well.

If I was rating them from best to worst I would probably have it:

Romero Osby
Moj Gibson
Cam Clark

Steven pledger
Jalen hill
Elijah harkless
Andrew fitzgerald
Sam grooms

Tyler Neal


Issanza

 

[TINY]

Really?

Lmao, right? Cortes was the best player on our team last night. Without him we get blown out.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

No question about Gibson. Harkless v grooms is a bit closer for me but harkless defense/rebounding gives him the edge. Grooms was a smart player who could handle/pass the ball well.

If I was rating them from best to worst I would probably have it:

Romero Osby
Moj Gibson
Cam Clark

Steven pledger
Jalen hill
Elijah harkless
Andrew fitzgerald
Sam grooms

Tyler Neal


Issanza

am i overvaluing how good pledger was in my memory? and fitz?

 

[61sooner]

Off topic but was cleaning out all vcr tapes and found and played the end of the famous OU-MU game where Billy told the crowd to stop throwing things on the court even if the officiating was bad.
OU 112-MU 105 A record crowd in LNC.
Maybe the year after the loss to KU in the natty game.
Is it possible to ever get back to that enthusiasm for OU basketball?

 

[skyvue]

am i overvaluing how good pledger was in my memory? and fitz?

Pledger averaged 6, 11, 16 and 12 ppg game while averaged 19, 30, 33 and 29 minutes per game.

Fitz averaged 5, 13, 12 and 6 ppg while averaging 16, 31, 28 and 15 minutes per game.

 

[OUSKINS]

Off topic but was cleaning out all vcr tapes and found and played the end of the famous OU-MU game where Billy told the crowd to stop throwing things on the court even if the officiating was bad.
OU 112-MU 105 A record crowd in LNC.
Maybe the year after the loss to KU in the natty game.
Is it possible to ever get back to that enthusiasm for OU basketball?

No.

I do think a new arena would provide a short term jolt— if it coincided with good/fun teams, then that might sustain some good crowds and interest for awhile. But no, the fan/team connection will never get back to Tubbs level— for many, many reasons— some of which are time and place which can never be recreated.

 

[TINY]

am i overvaluing how good pledger was in my memory? and fitz?

If you wanted to put them a notch or 2 higher on the list I wouldn’t argue too much. Pledger was a tremendous shooter. Fitz had an old man’s game but he was money from mid range. Both were liabilities on defense. Fitz was particularly poor on defense due to his lack of athleticism.

Pledger averaged 6, 11, 16 and 12 ppg game while averaged 19, 30, 33 and 29 minutes per game.

Fitz averaged 5, 13, 12 and 6 ppg while averaging 16, 31, 28 and 15 minutes per game.

Good stats, Sky.

 

[WaymanFan]

Off topic but was cleaning out all vcr tapes and found and played the end of the famous OU-MU game where Billy told the crowd to stop throwing things on the court even if the officiating was bad.
OU 112-MU 105 A record crowd in LNC.
Maybe the year after the loss to KU in the natty game.
Is it possible to ever get back to that enthusiasm for OU basketball?

Interesting (and timely) that you mentioned "The Technical" game. OU was down 22-4 in that game, similar to Iowa State the other night. The difference is the crowd for the Missouri game was electrifying. OU would not have won without that crowd. Even though they got back in the game the other night, they did it in spite of the crowd. If I heard correctly that there were less than 5000 fans for that game, then the crowd is the #1, #2, and #3 reasons why OU lost.

And yes, going to one game this year (against Florida) does mean I will criticize the fans. I at least attend OU games when they come within 200 miles of where I live (Columbia, SC for the 2019 NCA Tournament). When I lived in upstate NY, I went to Syracuse, Albany, NYC, NJ and MA to see them play. As such, anyone living basically within breathing distance of the LNC who doesn't go to the games forfeits their right to complain about them losing.

 

[soonerjunky]

Telling you.. he can go!! Defensively he's getting better. He needs more than 12-16 min a game though. A better system and he looks/plays different. That's coming from a D2 coach that knows his stuff.. He's been my favorite player as well

Alex Grinch is a D1 coach and no way in hell I trust his evaluation. Why would a trust your dads evaluation? My eyes tell me BC isn't the guy. That doesn't mean he wouldnt do better in a different system. I think most here agree, we want a different system that what is being ran.