The State of Oklahoma basketball looks bleak to me ..

[Sooner_In_MI]

I don't think OU has to hire a big name coach. I think OU needs to hire a good coach. As was previously stated, Billy Tubbs was not well known. He came from Lamar. How many people know where Lamar is (what State) and what conference they play in?

Sampson was also not well known. He came from Washington State. He had made the tourney but was simply running a respectable but average Pac Ten team.

With a good hire and one great palyer or a couple of good players and OU will be back to winning. It is not impossible by any stretch of the imagination.

However, once OU starts winning again we need to do a better job supporting the program. The LNC needs to again become one of the toughest venues in college basketball like it was during the Tubbs era. (It is a fact that the LNC was considered as tough as they got in the late mid to late 80s.)

This will require the students to support the program but I think it also requires financial support from the alumni. We need to donate money and make it free or very cheap for students to go to the games. We need 10,000 alumni to donate $100 a year to endow the studnet section. We should sell concession cheap to students (adults can pay regular prices). We need a crazy student section that doesn't want to miss the fun of a home basketball game. If we get that, the alumni will enjoy the games too. Attendence will increase because the environment will be great.

Or OU can just increase "activity fees" $20 for all students.

 

[CMSOONER]

a mid-major hire will kill this program right now.

If we're going to hire a mid major coach then we should have just kept Capel. JMHO. Mark it down, Capel will be successful. It's just too bad it didn't work out at OU.

 

[Dem Coltz]

If we're going to hire a mid major coach then we should have just kept Capel. JMHO. Mark it down, Capel will be successful. It's just too bad it didn't work out at OU.

Totally agree.

 

[Dr Sleep]

Been doing some thinking and thought I would put in pixel form and share it with this board. Its long, its ranty, so you've been forewarned.

In my short life I have never seen this program anywhere close to the shambles that it is starting to become. Maybe its a sign of being spoiled, nearsighted, biased or whatever, but this situation seems surreal. OU basketball has always been a consistent winner for me in regards to sports. My first memories of OU football were of DeMond Parker being good and the rest of the team constantly losing.

Because of this and the success that Nate Erdmand, Corey Brewer and Eduardo Najera had I foolishly believed OU was a basketball school. OU basketball has always been number 1 in my heart, even when the football team now at a similar status of the 50's, 70's and 80's, I've still been a basketball guy.

I remember my winter Saturdays being built around getting to watch OU basketball and Phillips 66 commercials. I remember begging my mom to take me out of school to watch Big 12 and NCAA tournament games. Pretending to be Eduardo Najera in my drive way, then even going through a weird phase where I would pound the left side of my chest before a free throw because I was convinced it would allow me to make them like Hollis did. OU basketball being a winner is all I've ever known.

I know now its a spoiled outlook on life and now seems incredible lucky as I look at what has conspired in the past two years. I think the biggest shocker to me in all of this is I was convinced we were entering another golden age of Sooner hoops.

All the McDonald All Americans and potential future Sooners had me seeing stars. To make it even better, all those stars were aligned and they pointed to one thing. OU cutting down the nets and getting that elusive national championship.

Its funny how foolish those dreams look right now, as even a NIT championship seems impossible. It is amazing how OU went from the penthouse to the outhouse quicker than a game winning tip in by Jameel Haywood vs Missouri.

Maybe this is a knee jerk reaction but I am honestly not sure there are many coaching options that call pull this program out of the tailspin. I look at many of the mid major candidates, the "more realistic options" and go really? These are the men to be trusted with fixing this program?

Cuonzo Martin, a guy who has never even been to the tournament?
Greg Marshall. a guy having trouble maintaining the same level of success Mark Turegon had with the Shockers?

All the mid majors just scream a massive MEH to me. Maybe one of them could take over and maintain a relative good level of success, but none of them seem ready to take on a rebuilding job that is needed here.

This is the breaking point for the program, if this hire isn't successful its looking to be at least 5 more years of struggles. 5 more years of a NIT bid being be a welcome sight for those that stick it out as fans.

The small fan base OU has will only grow smaller, leaving the few crazy die hards, making up the 2,079 people in the LNC for that December Wednesday Night game vs Little Sisters of the Poor St. I hate speaking in such gloom and doom terms for this team I really do. But I look at it and just don't see many reasons to Sunshine pump.

I know that Joe C is much too busy of a man to be reading the rantings and ravings of this message board, but if he somehow does see this. Do whatever it takes, open the checkbook, whatever is need to get a quality name in here. I don't care if its Buzz Williams, Tubby Smith, heck even Chris Mack or shudder, Tad Boyle don't seem like bad options compared to the Mid-Major options. Just make it happen Joe C, I don't care how it is done.

This hire is going to make or break the program. Don't go cheap, go big or go home. Make sure OU goes down swinging and not with a whimper in the middle of the night If I could think of some more cliches at this moment I would be sure to throw them into this paragraph to further illustrate my point.

Not really a lot of groundbreaking stuff with this post, but I felt the need to share it.

I'll step off the soapbox now.

Even harder for fans that are older, when LNC was a place where the AP #1 ranked teams came to lose to our Sooners.

 

[NickZepp]

If we're going to hire a mid major coach then we should have just kept Capel. JMHO. Mark it down, Capel will be successful. It's just too bad it didn't work out at OU.

Name a coach in college basketball that has success with no real style.

Capel is perfect for the NBA because the NBA is about talent more than style. You just have to be a decent coach on defense.

 

[CMSOONER]

Name a coach in college basketball that has success with no real style.

Capel is perfect for the NBA because the NBA is about talent more than style. You just have to be a decent coach on defense.

I think Capel does have a style, which we saw when he had Blake, And we saw with what he tried to do last year with Tiny, WWIII, and TMG. That is get up the floor quickly and score in transition with quick guards and athletic big men. Unfortunately he never had a solid core of guys carry over each year. But I think he was building towards that and learned from the last two years. That and this years dedication to defense I think Capel was starting to turn the corner as a coach.

 

[209sooner]

The OP is being a bit dramatic. We were solid to very good and occasionally great for 25+ years, then we had two terrible years. There's no reason to think we won't be good again before long. Basketball is easier to turn around than football, too. Don't despair Sam. OU basketball will be back.

 

[Top Dog]

Sam,

I, myself (and from reading other posters), am very much in the same boat as you. A minority in the fact that I love OU basketball, as much, if not more than football.

I was 7 years old when my Dad bought more OU basketball tickets, so his son could go to the game with the whole family. We got this kid out of Booker T Washington the next year and he was pretty good. The team was so engaging then and so much fun. I remember being at the All-College Tournament (yes, when it was a tournament) and OU had won (beat Dave Bliss' SMU team) and staying down in the front to watch the awards. Anthony Bowie gave me his wrist bands (I still have them today) and told me to keep working on my shot.

I remember getting to fly back with the team after they had won the Big 8 conference championship in Kansas City in the magical season of 88. I sat next to Mookie Blaylock and Harvey Grant was on the other side of him. I got to wear the net that Mookie had around his neck and got to hold the trophy (while taking pictures). I even got to go and sit with Tubbs and talk to him. He told me I could be his Dave Sieger (probably thought I could be Jason "SKI" Skurcenski). It was some of the greatest moments I have as a kid getting to live through all the winning (and an occasional loss).

Then Sampson came. All was good and I felt like we had a guy that could always consistently win thus when some people rejoiced when he left I told them to be careful what they wished for (thus we are here today). I feel that people did not embrace him or his teams as well because of two reasons: 1. Billy Tubbs is a hard one to follow and 2. I believe that OU fans want someone that wants to be here (Sampson was always floating his name out for jobs to get a pay raise and even used the arch nemesis of texas). It was really sad that the support was not there for him because we could have been that much better. I was that complained about him that he could not seal the big recruits (or keep them if the did come - humphrey (I think that he still thinks that he should play the three - btw (this to Ryan's parents- ok his dad) want position did he play at Notre Dame wait it was the four) and lavender) and then he had the class with Reynolds and James that ended up falling apart due to his leaving (still believe that this one is out there because the reasons he got those two signed and commitment was due to cheating).

Next Joe C brought in a young coach that he was investing in (probably 3rd or 4th option - Wonder if Joe C gets a thank you letter from Jay Wright for his pay raise?). I think that Capel was not embraced here (partly because he was young) and I think that it was an investment that looked like was going to pay off, but ended up failing due to his inexperience in dealing with the situations that were put in front of him. I myself believe that he will be successful and wish him the best. He gave us (along with Sampson signing Taylor) an unbelievable show to watch and someone that we will be proud of for a long time (thanks to Tommy and Gail for their two unbelievable kids).

I take solace in the fact that we are not going to short change with this hire because of the reason that I think that Capel was fired in the first place - we could not stomach any more of a loss in the investment that is basketball (from fan support to sponsors to donors to our leadership). I believe that we will win again and win soon. The track record is there by multiple coaches being able to win.

The question that comes to mind for me is what can we do? Here are some thoughts:
 Give money right away towards basketball
 Push to end the football/basketball ticket priority system so we have people buying tickets to use them not just to get their OU/tx tickets.
 Create a committee of former coaches, players, and administrators along with current ones and fans to think about how to make OU basketball great. We have money and resources, but just need to create a basketball culture to go with football.
 Promote ticket sharing more and make it easier to ensure that sold seats have people in them
 Capital campaign for a new (or remodeled - major remodel) LNC that is for basketball and not a multi-purpose center. To me this is one of the very few drawbacks to our program. I would place south of the current to allow the ability to hook the practice facilities to them. Make it smaller. I used to work with Boren when we brought people to campus to speak and he taught me a valuable lesson when selecting a venue for such an event. Yes, is it cool to think of getting the biggest most grand room/ballroom for such an event, but if it is only half full it makes people not feel as good about themselves. In the late 90s, two of the top 5 places to play did not have capacity over 6800 and as long as all games are going to be on TV then smaller is better to build an atmosphere (maybe make areas like at the new Dallas Cowboy Stadium that can be expanded at certain times to sell more tickets - add collection areas for walk ups to stand that can be closed off when not need - no more eye sore). Play some games at the ford center (OKC center - whatever it is called)?
 How to get a consistent student presence?
 Fans apathy? (Does point 2 cover it)
 Thunder problem (this has hurt us in the short run, but could help in the long run by making basketball more popular)?
 Make amends with Blake and do it fast, so he will embrace program and new coach.
 Get a coach that can be embraced by the fan base and bring excitement. This will make sure that we can address our few (but daunting) drawbacks. Oh, wait, that was the whole point to your post Sam....

Anyway, thanks for the post Sam, it made me reflect back to why I love OU basketball thus why I am on pins and needles.

Soonerly,
Top Dog
:OU-logo:

Joe C, my additional check is on the way. Earn your paycheck and get this right....

 

[NickZepp]

I think Capel does have a style, which we saw when he had Blake, And we saw with what he tried to do last year with Tiny, WWIII, and TMG. That is get up the floor quickly and score in transition with quick guards and athletic big men. Unfortunately he never had a solid core of guys carry over each year. But I think he was building towards that and learned from the last two years. That and this years dedication to defense I think Capel was starting to turn the corner as a coach.

If Capel was trying to make us a transition type team then we were probably the slowest transition team in the nation in his 5 years here. Even with Blake. We never really played good enough defense at the guards to be a great transition team under Capel. We came close at times. When Blake got going it was because of our guards defense. The criticism of Blake by scouts was his defense in the half court if you remember. But in Blake's first year we weren't that good on offense. And we weren't that good at getting in transition either.

Facts are we played at too slow a pace to be a transition team. Looking at our offensive plays per game stats they tend to bare that out too.

 

[colston15]

Been doing some thinking and thought I would put in pixel form and share it with this board. Its long, its ranty, so you've been forewarned.

In my short life I have never seen this program anywhere close to the shambles that it is starting to become. Maybe its a sign of being spoiled, nearsighted, biased or whatever, but this situation seems surreal. OU basketball has always been a consistent winner for me in regards to sports. My first memories of OU football were of DeMond Parker being good and the rest of the team constantly losing.

Because of this and the success that Nate Erdmand, Corey Brewer and Eduardo Najera had I foolishly believed OU was a basketball school. OU basketball has always been number 1 in my heart, even when the football team now at a similar status of the 50's, 70's and 80's, I've still been a basketball guy.

I remember my winter Saturdays being built around getting to watch OU basketball and Phillips 66 commercials. I remember begging my mom to take me out of school to watch Big 12 and NCAA tournament games. Pretending to be Eduardo Najera in my drive way, then even going through a weird phase where I would pound the left side of my chest before a free throw because I was convinced it would allow me to make them like Hollis did. OU basketball being a winner is all I've ever known.

I know now its a spoiled outlook on life and now seems incredible lucky as I look at what has conspired in the past two years. I think the biggest shocker to me in all of this is I was convinced we were entering another golden age of Sooner hoops.

All the McDonald All Americans and potential future Sooners had me seeing stars. To make it even better, all those stars were aligned and they pointed to one thing. OU cutting down the nets and getting that elusive national championship.

Its funny how foolish those dreams look right now, as even a NIT championship seems impossible. It is amazing how OU went from the penthouse to the outhouse quicker than a game winning tip in by Jameel Haywood vs Missouri.

Maybe this is a knee jerk reaction but I am honestly not sure there are many coaching options that call pull this program out of the tailspin. I look at many of the mid major candidates, the "more realistic options" and go really? These are the men to be trusted with fixing this program?

Cuonzo Martin, a guy who has never even been to the tournament?
Greg Marshall. a guy having trouble maintaining the same level of success Mark Turegon had with the Shockers?

All the mid majors just scream a massive MEH to me. Maybe one of them could take over and maintain a relative good level of success, but none of them seem ready to take on a rebuilding job that is needed here.

This is the breaking point for the program, if this hire isn't successful its looking to be at least 5 more years of struggles. 5 more years of a NIT bid being be a welcome sight for those that stick it out as fans.

The small fan base OU has will only grow smaller, leaving the few crazy die hards, making up the 2,079 people in the LNC for that December Wednesday Night game vs Little Sisters of the Poor St. I hate speaking in such gloom and doom terms for this team I really do. But I look at it and just don't see many reasons to Sunshine pump.

I know that Joe C is much too busy of a man to be reading the rantings and ravings of this message board, but if he somehow does see this. Do whatever it takes, open the checkbook, whatever is need to get a quality name in here. I don't care if its Buzz Williams, Tubby Smith, heck even Chris Mack or shudder, Tad Boyle don't seem like bad options compared to the Mid-Major options. Just make it happen Joe C, I don't care how it is done.

This hire is going to make or break the program. Don't go cheap, go big or go home. Make sure OU goes down swinging and not with a whimper in the middle of the night If I could think of some more cliches at this moment I would be sure to throw them into this paragraph to further illustrate my point.

Not really a lot of groundbreaking stuff with this post, but I felt the need to share it.

I'll step off the soapbox now.

Have some faith, man. We'll be back real soon.

 

[CMSOONER]

If Capel was trying to make us a transition type team then we were probably the slowest transition team in the nation in his 5 years here. Even with Blake. We never really played good enough defense at the guards to be a great transition team under Capel. We came close at times. When Blake got going it was because of our guards defense. The criticism of Blake by scouts was his defense in the half court if you remember. But in Blake's first year we weren't that good on offense. And we weren't that good at getting in transition either.

Facts are we played at too slow a pace to be a transition team. Looking at our offensive plays per game stats they tend to bare that out too.

I think that's where the lack of a solid foundation and Capels limited experience hurt a little. He seemed to be recruiting the right guys with WWIII, and TMG to bolster the guard play on both ends, it just didn't work out with them and that was a big blow to Capel. That coupled with the possible Tiny fallout left Jeff having to settle on players.

Don't you think a lineup of TMG, Bird, Cam, Cade, Tiny would have been a pretty good transition team assuming they all bought into playing D?

 

[NickZepp]

That's a hard lineup to defend when you don't have a guy that can defend in the block with that lineup. The problem Capel's teams had is for the most part they weren't good enough on defense to work on offense. So the only way we could keep teams close was to slow the pace down. Because I think you are right that the transition helps his offense look better. We saw that some in his first year and then in 2009. But the rest of the time we just weren't good enough on defense so we ended up with half court teams that were bad at both offense and defense.

Put Capel in the NBA he's great because talent isn't really a problem in the NBA for just about anyone.

 

[DenverSooner]

Or OU can just increase "activity fees" $20 for all students.

All OU has to do is ask the alumni to donate. Start a campaign designed for average guys (and girls) to donate to support basketball. There are so many people that can afford a $100 a year it would not be hard to get several thousand. Plus some people will offer up a $1,000 or more if they start a campaign.

The key is to tell the alumni what it is for and why it will work. A rowdy student section will help this program. It will inspire the other fans to attend and make noise. We rocked the house in the late 80s and I know the students can do it again. It was fun, in fact, many of my best memories were going to basketball games.

 

[CMSOONER]

That's a hard lineup to defend when you don't have a guy that can defend in the block with that lineup. The problem Capel's teams had is for the most part they weren't good enough on defense to work on offense. So the only way we could keep teams close was to slow the pace down. Because I think you are right that the transition helps his offense look better. We saw that some in his first year and then in 2009. But the rest of the time we just weren't good enough on defense so we ended up with half court teams that were bad at both offense and defense.

Put Capel in the NBA he's great because talent isn't really a problem in the NBA for just about anyone.

You are right, we weren't good enough. Capel was trying to get the guys in to be good enough, but it just never worked out. I think he realized what he needed to do as a coach to improve the defense, there just wasn't enough talent/depth/experience to make a significant jump. By the end of this season I think saw a much improved defense and a more organized offense. IMO jeff was making the turn and if we had kept him another year I think we would have seen brighter days.

 

[NickZepp]

If Capel really wanted a transition type team he would put pressure on the ball constantly. And even with Blake we didn't really do that all that much. I don't really but that as his style.