The three second rule

[AdaSooner]

Thebigabd's possession arrow thread triggered a thought about another rule I have hated for years: The "three second rule." IMO, it's the most useless (and abused) rule in college basketball. Actually, there is nothing wrong with the rule if officials would enforce it consistently the way it was designed to be called. How many times in the course of a season do you see officials make that call? Bet you can count them on two hands.

If players are going to be allowed to set up camp inside the lane and prepare a snack while they're there, shouldn't the rule at least be renamed to become the five or seven or even ten second rule? Am I the only one who finds this this irritating?

 

[BigTime]

It really frustrates me why the rule even exists if it is hardly ever called (kind of like palming). It seems like officials use it subjectively and inconsistently.

 

[MNsooner]

I think the rule is a good one, but it really needs to be enforced. The solution isn't to get rid of the rule, but to call it consistently. I know it has been brought up earlier, but college ball needs a charge circle. If you can't sit in the paint then the defenders should have to contest your shot around the hoop.

 

[DenverSooner]

I learned this year that it applied if you had the ball. I always thought it only applied without the ball. I have watched a lot of basketball (and used to lot way more) so that alone should point out how infrequently it is called.

 

[AdaSooner]

I learned this year that it applied if you had the ball. I always thought it only applied without the ball. I have watched a lot of basketball (and used to lot way more) so that alone should point out how infrequently it is called.

Denver, you may be thinking about team possession of the ball not player control. The rule applies to any offensive player whose team is in possession of the ball.

An offensive player, with or without the ball, is in violation if he is in the lane for more than three seconds and does not leave the the free throw line extended. In other words, the count does not stop if even one of his feet is still in contact with the line on either side.

The count ends when a player catches the ball and is making a legitimate attempt to score. There are limits even in that situation, which are usually at the officials' discretion. The count also ends when players are battling for a rebound. However, if a player receives an entry pass, remains in the lane for more than three seconds while attempting to score and then passes the ball back out again, he has violated the rule and a call should be made. Of course, we know a three second call for any violation of the rule is rare.

Here's the rule:

3 Seconds in the Key

The rule states that while a team is in possession of the ball, an offensive player shall NOT remain in the key for more than three consecutive seconds. The lines bounding the key are part of the restricted area and a player touching one of these lines is considered in the area. The 3 second restriction does NOT apply: A) While the ball is in the air during a shot for goal. B) During a rebound or C) When the ball is dead. If the ref calls a 3 second violation, the ball is immediately turned over to the opposing team.

 

[usedtobe1]

Denver, you may be thinking about team possession of the ball not player control. The rule applies to any offensive player whose team is in possession of the ball.

An offensive player, with or without the ball, is in violation if he is in the lane for more than three seconds and does not leave the the free throw line extended. In other words, the count does not stop if even one of his feet is still in contact with the line on either side.

The count ends when a player catches the ball and is making a legitimate attempt to score. There are limits even in that situation, which are usually at the officials' discretion. The count also ends when players are battling for a rebound. However, if a player receives an entry pass, remains in the lane for more than three seconds while attempting to score and then passes the ball back out again, he has violated the rule and a call should be made. Of course, we know a three second call for any violation of the rule is rare.

Here's the rule:

3 Seconds in the Key

The rule states that while a team is in possession of the ball, an offensive player shall NOT remain in the key for more than three consecutive seconds. The lines bounding the key are part of the restricted area and a player touching one of these lines is considered in the area. The 3 second restriction does NOT apply: A) While the ball is in the air during a shot for goal. B) During a rebound or C) When the ball is dead. If the ref calls a 3 second violation, the ball is immediately turned over to the opposing team.

Ada, I know you were a referee, just like I have been. I've called 100's of games and don't hear much griping about the 3 second rule from coaches, but a lot of fans misunderstand it.

You see lots of guys with one foot in and one foot out of the lane and they lift up the foot in the lane to stop the count. If I see a guy trying to get out and the defense is essentially trying to hold him in the lane, I don't penalize him.

I hear more fans yell about it when a shot goes up and a player is battling for a rebound and there is a series of put-back attempts. It's OK to be in there. It seems one fan yells about it and it starts a frenzy.

I call it most often if someone posts up deep and gets a pass and kicks it back out but stays in the lane. They go to sleep. I also watch for it more if I'm a trail official on the off-ball side.

I think there are a lot of other potential calls that get neglected more than the 3 second rule. Illegal picks, holds, etc. More around the physical play. It's a constant balance between "letting them play" and keeping it under control. I see a lot of AAU games get out of control in the last 5 or 6 minutes when the testosterone levels kick in......

 

[OUradu]

At every officiating clinic I've been too, instructors always teach us, in most cases, to practice preventive officiating. So, when it comes to the lane we're taught to talk them out of the lane "12 get out of there" "23 I'm counting" etc. As a result, I think we tend to let it slide A LOT. Mainly because who wants to be the official who's disrupting the flow the game by blowing a whistle every time down the court for a violation way off the ball?

 

[campbest]

Ada, I know you were a referee, just like I have been. I've called 100's of games and don't hear much griping about the 3 second rule from coaches, but a lot of fans misunderstand it.

You see lots of guys with one foot in and one foot out of the lane and they lift up the foot in the lane to stop the count. If I see a guy trying to get out and the defense is essentially trying to hold him in the lane, I don't penalize him.

I hear more fans yell about it when a shot goes up and a player is battling for a rebound and there is a series of put-back attempts. It's OK to be in there. It seems one fan yells about it and it starts a frenzy.

I call it most often if someone posts up deep and gets a pass and kicks it back out but stays in the lane. They go to sleep. I also watch for it more if I'm a trail official on the off-ball side.

I think there are a lot of other potential calls that get neglected more than the 3 second rule. Illegal picks, holds, etc. More around the physical play. It's a constant balance between "letting them play" and keeping it under control. I see a lot of AAU games get out of control in the last 5 or 6 minutes when the testosterone levels kick in......

Can't disagree with anything said in this post, a lot of the frenzy that swirls around the three-second call is people just don't know the rule. Everyone assumes that if one person is screaming about it, the call must be legit so they decide to chime in.

Example 1: After officiating a game in Plano, a parent came up to me to say that we needed to watch the three seconds, I asked if she remembered a specific play and she said no, but the opposing team would stay in the lane while the shot was in the air and then get the rebound. Had to explain to her that is not how the rule is stated, she proceeded to find something else to complain about.

In all honesty, I would rather have illegal picks called more frequently than three seconds.

 

[AdaSooner]

Ada, I know you were a referee, just like I have been. I've called 100's of games and don't hear much griping about the 3 second rule from coaches, but a lot of fans misunderstand it.

You see lots of guys with one foot in and one foot out of the lane and they lift up the foot in the lane to stop the count. If I see a guy trying to get out and the defense is essentially trying to hold him in the lane, I don't penalize him.

I hear more fans yell about it when a shot goes up and a player is battling for a rebound and there is a series of put-back attempts. It's OK to be in there. It seems one fan yells about it and it starts a frenzy.

I call it most often if someone posts up deep and gets a pass and kicks it back out but stays in the lane. They go to sleep. I also watch for it more if I'm a trail official on the off-ball side.

I think there are a lot of other potential calls that get neglected more than the 3 second rule. Illegal picks, holds, etc. More around the physical play. It's a constant balance between "letting them play" and keeping it under control. I see a lot of AAU games get out of control in the last 5 or 6 minutes when the testosterone levels kick in......

Yousedtobe1, while I officiated at the high school level for a number of years, I'm a novice by definition when compared to guys like you and oketex. I agree with everything you say, including the fact that several rules with a greater impact on the game are often ignored.

In the few times I saw the three second call made this past season, I played them back out of curiosity and found that if the player actually violated the rule, it was generally borderline at best. Yet, on numerous occasions I watched guys like Tyler Hansbrough, for example, (my favorite "officials' pet" this season lol) camp out in the lane for ten seconds or more and never receive a call. By the way, Hansbrough gets away with shuffling his feet when he drives and changing his pivot foot more than any player I have ever seen. I watched one UNC game this season where he actually changed his pivot foot three times. But, that's another story.

In any event, I'm all for a loose interpretation of the three second rule. I called it that way myself back in the day. If officials applied the rule in its strictest sense, whistles blowing every few minutes would destroy the flow of the game. Good officials have to use common sense in determining if a violation occurred, much like they do with incidental contact; one more thing fans complain about because they don't understand the rule.

Having said all that, maybe it's time for officials at the college level to make the three second rule a point of emphasis, so everyone is at least on the same page with how the call should be made. I guess you could say the problem I've got with the way the rule is being interpreted is that old bugaboo called consistency, which, as you know, is the main gripe coaches have with officiating.

 

[DenverSooner]

I did not communicate that very well. Prior to this season I did not realize a player with the ball could get a three second call. I mistakenly thought once you got the ball in the paint the 5 second count would apply. I suppose I thought it could work like this (although I never put this much thought into it):

Post up pre-ball: 2.9 seconds
Catch Ball: 4.9 seconds to shoot or dribble.

However, this year Blake got a 3 second call with the ball in his hand. I just did not realize that was prohibited. I checked with a friend that is a referee and he confirmed to me it was the correct call. (The guy is also a huge OU fan and knew I was asking about Blake Griffin).

 

[Bk2X]

I spent most every game at LNC this year trying to watch the opposing team's time in the lane when they had the ball (mostly cause I want the easy turnover). What I found was very rarely did they actually stay in the lane over 3 seconds. Playoffs were a different story. So in my opinion the refs do a good job of keeping an eye on it. One thing I did notice, they called palming more this year than I have ever seen in my life.

 

[AdaSooner]

I did not communicate that very well. Prior to this season I did not realize a player with the ball could get a three second call. I mistakenly thought once you got the ball in the paint the 5 second count would apply. I suppose I thought it could work like this (although I never put this much thought into it):

Post up pre-ball: 2.9 seconds
Catch Ball: 4.9 seconds to shoot or dribble.

However, this year Blake got a 3 second call with the ball in his hand. I just did not realize that was prohibited. I checked with a friend that is a referee and he confirmed to me it was the correct call. (The guy is also a huge OU fan and knew I was asking about Blake Griffin).

I remember that call, Denver. I played it back to see how much time Blake spent in the lane, because I was shocked when the official made the call. It was indeed a violation when the rule is applied the way it is written. However, that same call could have been made on both teams at other times during that game, and therein lies the problem I have with the rule.

 

[oketex]

Ada, here is the problem with the 3 sec rule: While most fans see a player in the paint for what seems like for ever, the official must watch to make sure that one or both feet are in the paint for the 3 sec count.

Example: Post player has right foot outside of the paint, left foot inside, the count is on, but what if the player lifts his left foot off the floor, the count is off even though his body may be in the paint his foot is not and therefore the count is off. Once he reestablishes his foot then the count is back on, therefore it will seem like he has been in there long enough to have lunch and a cold beer.

I watch during the NCAA and it was called several times and I thought the officials did a good job with this phase of the game.

Have a great day my friend!:boomer:sooner:tonytoblake

 

[cosmic_sooner]

yea i really have to agree with a couple other posters here. if you really watch for it, you'll rarely see players in there for too long.

in that sense, i think if a player is in there for an extra tick (ie: 4 seconds) it's going to get called. 3 seconds means different things to us in the stands (or on the couch with a beer) than it does to those going full-speed down on the floor. as in we may be counting too fast.

ref's seem to be able to keep count decently well. besides if you were really trying to throw a game or shove a call up a team's ass, refs are probably going to be more discreet and call fouls or flub who the ball went out on.

 

[oketex]

A good way to follow the refs count is: 1,001, 1002, 1003, etc. That is how all basketball officials should count, that way it is a smooth even count and in most case right on the time.

When I was officiating I would practice with the microwave, that way I could work on getting an even count and to make sure I was not to fast. Even though I ref for 25 yrs, major college, I always practice with a stop watch or the microwave. Another way to follow, watch the 30 sec clock during a game. It is harder to follow on 3 sec in the lane but it can be a good monitor for the 10 sec or 5 sec calls.:sooner:boomer

 

[campbest]

A good way to follow the refs count is: 1,001, 1002, 1003, etc. That is how all basketball officials should count, that way it is a smooth even count and in most case right on the time.

When I was officiating I would practice with the microwave, that way I could work on getting an even count and to make sure I was not to fast. Even though I ref for 25 yrs, major college, I always practice with a stop watch or the microwave. Another way to follow, watch the 30 sec clock during a game. It is harder to follow on 3 sec in the lane but it can be a good monitor for the 10 sec or 5 sec calls.:sooner:boomer

I love it when the coach or fan is counting "1,2,3!" quickly in your ear, as if that is a realistic three seconds.