This is two games against crap teams that OU has not looked good...

That is not what im saying. You are saying the big 12 is like some real tough league this year that is very far from correct.
 
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Klegg said:
I never said you did or didn't. I said you don't apply the same "doom and gloom" attitude to them when playing these also-rans.
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Agreed he does't apply the doom and gloom attitude to other schools. He is talking about that tough osu squad who squeaked out a win by 9 against UCO
 
Judging any team this early in the season is a bit of a knee jerk reaction. Look at UConn; #12 in the country and they have a 9 point win over William and Mary, a 14 point win over Colgate, and a 9 point win over Hofstra. Kentucky is #5(a bit overrated at this point IMO) and they have a 16 point win over Morehead St. and a 2 point win over Miami(OH). Both teams are loaded with talent, some of it young and are having consistency issues similar to ours. Doesn't change the fact that by the end of the season, they'll both be the kind of teams you wouldn't want to face.
 
Klegg said:
This MAY BE one of the single, dumbest statements ever made on a message board. You MAY have played basketball at one point in your life, but you obviously didn't learn much from it. NO ONE does this consistently...ESPECIALLY a young team.
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I strongly disagree. I can name a bunch of coaches that did this consistently. Tubbs consistently forced people to play fast. Jerry Tarkanian consistently forced people to play fast. Paul Westfelds (is that the correct name - coached at Loyola M) consistently forced people to play fast with much lower winning percentage than the first two. Nolan Richardson forced people to play fast.

Kelvin Sampson not only consistently forced people to slow down, he essentiallly slowed down the entire conference. (We must recognize that Sutton took over at OSU with a similar style, replacing a fast tempo guy in Hamilton). Eddie Sutton consistently forced people to play slow deliberate basketball. The guy at Princeton was a master at slowing down the game.
 
DenverSooner said:
I strongly disagree. I can name a bunch of coaches that did this consistently. Tubbs consistently forced people to play fast. Jerry Tarkanian consistently forced people to play fast. Paul Westfelds (is that the correct name - coached at Loyola M) consistently forced people to play fast with much lower winning percentage than the first two. Nolan Richardson forced people to play fast.

Kelvin Sampson not only consistently forced people to slow down, he essentiallly slowed down the entire conference. (We must recognize that Sutton took over at OSU with a similar style, replacing a fast tempo guy in Hamilton). Eddie Sutton consistently forced people to play slow deliberate basketball. The guy at Princeton was a master at slowing down the game.
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Paul Westhead.
 
DenverSooner said:
I strongly disagree. I can name a bunch of coaches that did this consistently. Tubbs consistently forced people to play fast. Jerry Tarkanian consistently forced people to play fast. Paul Westfelds (is that the correct name - coached at Loyola M) consistently forced people to play fast with much lower winning percentage than the first two. Nolan Richardson forced people to play fast.

Kelvin Sampson not only consistently forced people to slow down, he essentiallly slowed down the entire conference. (We must recognize that Sutton took over at OSU with a similar style, replacing a fast tempo guy in Hamilton). Eddie Sutton consistently forced people to play slow deliberate basketball. The guy at Princeton was a master at slowing down the game.
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You are right; Tubbs and Tarkanian both played up-tempo and mostly forced the other team to play faster than they wanted to. However, not being able to against every team cost Tubbs a title against Kansas and Tarkanian a title when they got beat by Duke in the final four. No team does it every time.
 
JDSooners said:
disappointed on Gallon and Fitzgerald because they had bad games.
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I don't think Gallon had a bad game. He got 10 boards. That is at least an average game if not a good game. You don't have to score every time out to have a good game.

Next to Willie Warren, I thought Cade Davis had the best performance of any Sooner. He scored 9 points but more importantly he gave energy and just made a difference.
 
cfin5256 said:
You are right; Tubbs and Tarkanian both played up-tempo and mostly forced the other team to play faster than they wanted to. However, not being able to against every team cost Tubbs a title against Kansas and Tarkanian a title when they got beat by Duke in the final four. No team does it every time.
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But the original statement was consistently force tempo and every coach I named consistently forced tempo. Loyola would lose games 130-125 but they still forced tempo.
 
I have only watched one college basketball game this season but I am not worried. I think OU will have a nice team.
 
DenverSooner said:
You don't have to score every time out to have a good game.
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Normally I'd agree with you, but we have to have SOME kind of inside game, and that needs to start with Tiny, our highest rated recruit. I didn't watch enough of the game to know why he didn't get more shots off, but that is a problem. Heck, against a team like that, he should have gotten 2-3 buckets on put backs.
 
DenverSooner said:
But the original statement was consistently force tempo and every coach I named consistently forced tempo. Loyola would lose games 130-125 but they still forced tempo.
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No doubt. I was just pointing out that even those two teams, both loaded with experience and talent, found themselves in games where they couldn't force the tempo. It's no surprise that it would happen to a talented, yet young, OU team.
 
DenverSooner said:
I have only watched one college basketball game this season but I am not worried. I think OU will have a nice team.
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I agree. Most of what we're seeing is growing pains for a young group of talented guys. Even Willie is only a sophmore who's adjusting to being a leader and not just a scorer.
 
DenverSooner said:
But the original statement was consistently force tempo and every coach I named consistently forced tempo. Loyola would lose games 130-125 but they still forced tempo.
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So, in the end, they forced NOTHING. The other team CHOSE to play them that way because they'd beat the soup outta them. Naming OU/UNLV in the 80's is ALSO a bad example, because they just flat out-athleted everyone. NO TEAM does this today AND OU does NOT have the same kind of run and gun athlete those teams had and JC's offense is not designed to work that way.

My point was a team like OU can't just change who they are just to force tempo when that's not their M.O....
 
SoonerfanTU said:
Normally I'd agree with you, but we have to have SOME kind of inside game, and that needs to start with Tiny, our highest rated recruit. I didn't watch enough of the game to know why he didn't get more shots off, but that is a problem. Heck, against a team like that, he should have gotten 2-3 buckets on put backs.
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I don't disagree that OU needs Gallon to score but I don't think it is fair to say a 10 rebound game is a bad game. Fitzgerald had a bad game.

Fans just shouldn't insult a player (especially a freshman) that grabed 10 rebounds in a game.

Essentially there are three aspects to basketball and those are scoring, rebounding and defense. If you are the leader in any of those categories you had a good game. (Assists are subcategory of scoring my opinion, blocks and steals are part of defense)
 
Klegg said:
My point was a team like OU can't just change who they are just to force tempo when that's not their M.O....
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If OU's guards are as good as advertised (which I think they are), then they need to extend their defense and put pressure on the ball. We did that the second half and were able to make a bit of a run to give us some cushion. This team HAS to step up and defend outside 20 ft, otherwise, the opposition is going to have a field day feeding the post and getting our bigs in trouble.

If OU can't do this on a consistent basis, we are going to struggle mightily IF our offense isn't clicking to a "T".
 
campbest said:
If OU's guards are as good as advertised (which I think they are), then they need to extend their defense and put pressure on the ball. We did that the second half and were able to make a bit of a run to give us some cushion. This team HAS to step up and defend outside 20 ft, otherwise, the opposition is going to have a field day feeding the post and getting our bigs in trouble.

If OU can't do this on a consistent basis, we are going to struggle mightily IF our offense isn't clicking to a "T".
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We DID force tempo a little bit...we scored 72 pts in a slow-tempo game.
 
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