This Trae Young thing is great, but.......

ranked in the top 12 in the toughest conf in America. SOunds like an awful year...
 
ruining? what is ruined??

We are having a fun, splendid season so far. Enjoy it. There's nothing "ruined" about it.
 
thebigabd said:
This kinda reminds me of that scene in Celtic Pride when Louis Scott, played by Damon Wayans, finally listens to the guys in the crowd and starts passing the ball. His teammates have no idea what's going on, they are getting hit in the face/head by his passes because they aren't expecting it.

"oh, well when he does pass they fumble the ball"..... "they aren't ready to shoot"... etc.. Well, when you are used to standing around watching this guy that may happen. When you are in the huddle for an entire season and coach never calls a play for you and 100% of your effort is to do something for Trae Young, that may happen.
Click to expand...

So they’re playing with a guy that leads the nation in assists but they don’t think he’s going to pass to them? Sure Jan.
 
steverocks35 said:
So they’re playing with a guy that leads the nation in assists but they don’t think he’s going to pass to them? Sure Jan.
Click to expand...



I won’t speak for what he meant for sure but I guarantee you that LK made some good adjustments at the start of the second half on Saturday to correct some issues. Rather than take the ball into trees at the bucket where he had few choices Trae was either shooting the floater or dishing sooner in the play to a cutting wing. He also, for the most part, stopped trying to dribble through double teams. Trae also made better decisions on when he could take the ball all the way to the bucket. Trae Young is awesome but even he can get better.

I didn’t think anyone means there is a serious problem with the team or at least I hope not. I think people just see some issues that need to be corrected just as the coaches see them. No doubt that the coaches are much more capable at determining exactly what is needed and how to implement than any of us. We still have a very good and dangerous team!!!!

I try to ignore some of the adjectives and adverbs and just see people who are good fans and disappointed in a loss. I am also disappointed in that loss because it shouldn’t have been a loss. But it was just one game and I still look forward to the season ahead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
steverocks35 said:
So they’re playing with a guy that leads the nation in assists but they don’t think he’s going to pass to them? Sure Jan.
Click to expand...

lol, Allen Iverson had plenty of assists too.

thebigabd,

Possibly a little bit of both? Teammates are not hitting shots, but Trae is trying to do too much as well?

The answer usually lies in the middle
Click to expand...

I will buy into that.

Let's see what happens. :)
 
thebigabd said:
lol, Allen Iverson had plenty of assists too.



I will buy into that.

Let's see what happens. :)
Click to expand...

LOL, Iverson averaged less than 5 assists/game in college and in the NBA his career high average was 7.9 assists/game and only averaged 6.2 assists/game in his career. Young is averaging close to 10 assists/game, so more than double Iverson did in college.
 
152219 said:
OU's offense is predicated on having the floor spread with spot up 3 point shooters on the wings. People complain about our wings "standing there", but that is their role. Young's outside shooting from way deep and his ability to get into the lane creates a wealth of space for the offense. When Young drives one of two things happens. The wing defenders stay on their men and Young gets to the rim (where he needs to finish better, mind you) or the wing defender(s) collapse, which frees OU's wings at the 3 point line. Young continues to make the smart play roughly 80% of the time IMO. Time and time again he passes to the wings when they are open and the bottom line is that they need to hit those shots as that is their role in the offense. And to be honest, that is the role that James is best at. Manek also has the game for this offense. Also, when Young drives if the post defenders come off their men Young dishes to Lattin/McNeace, who also need to finish at a higher clip.

Now, if you want to say this offense hurts McGusty because he has to create via isolation, that is fine. But, this essential conspiracy that the rest of the team dislikes this offense is just conjecture.
Click to expand...

This is an excellent post.

My only complaint with Trae on Saturday was the final possession but I'm not sure that was his fault. I know somebody on our end was open and all we needed was a 2, not a 3. If we go to 2nd OT, we win that game due to their foul trouble, IMO. But, he's a young kid and is learning in those situations, so I'm not losing sleep over it.
 
I’m a bit late to the party, but from what I’ve gathered Trae Young and Lon Kruger may or may not have conspired to ruin OU basketball and the details of the feature film Celtic Pride are unfortunately still remembered.
 
sooner333 said:
I’m a bit late to the party, but from what I’ve gathered Trae Young and Lon Kruger may or may not have conspired to ruin OU basketball and the details of the feature film Celtic Pride are unfortunately still remembered.
Click to expand...

Adb gonna adb
 
thebigabd said:
lol, Allen Iverson had plenty of assists too.
Click to expand...

Allen Iverson won a Big East Championship, went to the Elite Eight and the NBA Finals...

What a knock on Trae it must be to be compared to an NBA Hall of Famer.
 
152219 said:
OU's offense is predicated on having the floor spread with spot up 3 point shooters on the wings. People complain about our wings "standing there", but that is their role. Young's outside shooting from way deep and his ability to get into the lane creates a wealth of space for the offense. When Young drives one of two things happens. The wing defenders stay on their men and Young gets to the rim (where he needs to finish better, mind you) or the wing defender(s) collapse, which frees OU's wings at the 3 point line. Young continues to make the smart play roughly 80% of the time IMO. Time and time again he passes to the wings when they are open and the bottom line is that they need to hit those shots as that is their role in the offense. And to be honest, that is the role that James is best at. Manek also has the game for this offense. Also, when Young drives if the post defenders come off their men Young dishes to Lattin/McNeace, who also need to finish at a higher clip.

Now, if you want to say this offense hurts McGusty because he has to create via isolation, that is fine. But, this essential conspiracy that the rest of the team dislikes this offense is just conjecture.
Click to expand...

I agree with everything you said....with the exception of TY's deep 3 shooting. The problem with his deep 3s are:
  • they are now usually contested
  • they are sometimes too early in the shot clock
  • they are too often not in rhythm

All of those above items lead to a lower shooting percentage. He is a great shooter, but If he wants to shoot those deep 3s, then they need to be in rhythm and not 6-7 seconds into the shot clock. My guess is he is shooting around 20-25% from 25+ feet out.....and a portion of those are way too early in the shot clock. I don't have his shot chart in front of me, but those deep 3 misses are primarily wasted possessions when we don't even attempt to get others involved. The "threat" of his deep 3s diminish when he isn't making them....additionally, it doesn't necessarily lead to more "space" on the floor when he is missing. No matter how much he's hyped....he is not Steph Curry. Just watch Golden State, Curry actually plays in an offensive system predicated on ball movement.....not AAU-ish isolation which we have seen a little too much of lately.

Is TY the best player in the country?....most certainly he is. But that doesn't mean he can't improve certain aspects of his game.....specifically those would be basketball IQ, in-game management (i.e. trying to thread the needle), and shot selection (at times).

Now in his defense, it would also be nice if our bigs had better hands and were stronger with the ball. It would also be nice if we had some sort of consistency from Manek, James, McGusty, etc. from behind the arc. Still, Trae needs to keep trying to get those guys involved. It's no coincidence that we play our best ball when Trae has his highest assist numbers. He is going to get his points, I just want him to have as much help as possible.
 
Last edited:
stormspencer said:
I agree with everything you said....with the exception of TY's deep 3 shooting. The problem with his deep 3s are:
  • they are now usually contested
  • they are sometimes too early in the shot clock
  • they are too often not in rhythm

All of those above items lead to a lower shooting percentage. He is a great shooter, but If he wants to shoot those deep 3s, then they need to be in rhythm and not 6-7 seconds into the shot clock. My guess is he is shooting around 20-25% from 25+ feet out.....and a portion of those are way too early in the shot clock. I don't have his shot chart in front of me, but those deep 3 misses are primarily wasted possessions when we don't even attempt to get others involved. The "threat" of his deep 3s diminish when he isn't making them....additionally, it doesn't necessarily lead to more "space" on the floor when he is missing. No matter how much he's hyped....he is not Steph Curry. Just watch Golden State, Curry actually plays in an offensive system predicated on ball movement.....not AAU-ish isolation which we have seen a little too much of lately.

Is TY the best player in the country?....most certainly he is. But that doesn't mean he can't improve certain aspects of his game.....specifically those would be basketball IQ, in-game management (i.e. trying to thread the needle), and shot selection (at times).

Now in his defense, it would also be nice if our bigs had better hands and were stronger with the ball. It would also be nice if we had some sort of consistency from Manek, James, McGusty, etc. from behind the arc. Still, Trae needs to keep trying to get those guys involved. It's no coincidence that we play our best ball when Trae has his highest assist numbers. He is going to get his points, I just want him to have as much help as possible.
Click to expand...

Consistency BTA is a major problem as we are too streaky BTA shooting both as individuals and as a team which is one of the inherent problems of living by the 3. You often die by the 3. You also expect when 1 or 2 players have a cold night 1 or 2 other players step up. That has not always been the case.

As a team we are shooting .404 BTA. That is outstanding. As individuals we are also shooting outstanding with James shooting .438, Manek .430, Shepard .400, Young .395, Freeman .389, McGusty .362 and even Odomes is shooting .500 but only on 6 shots.

The problem is in the three games we lost we shot WVU .358 BTA (not terrible), OSU .286 and KSU .280. Got fortunate and beat Tech with a strong finish despite shooting only .318 BTA. I concur that in the games we lost we shot too many contested shots and shots out of rhythm.

http://image.cdnllnwnl.xosnetwork.com/attachments1/files/31000/632342.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=31000
 
stormspencer said:
I agree with everything you said....with the exception of TY's deep 3 shooting. The problem with his deep 3s are:
  • they are now usually contested
  • they are sometimes too early in the shot clock
  • they are too often not in rhythm

All of those above items lead to a lower shooting percentage. He is a great shooter, but If he wants to shoot those deep 3s, then they need to be in rhythm and not 6-7 seconds into the shot clock. My guess is he is shooting around 20-25% from 25+ feet out.....and a portion of those are way too early in the shot clock. I don't have his shot chart in front of me, but those deep 3 misses are primarily wasted possessions when we don't even attempt to get others involved. The "threat" of his deep 3s diminish when he isn't making them....additionally, it doesn't necessarily lead to more "space" on the floor when he is missing. No matter how much he's hyped....he is not Steph Curry. Just watch Golden State, Curry actually plays in an offensive system predicated on ball movement.....not AAU-ish isolation which we have seen a little too much of lately.

Is TY the best player in the country?....most certainly he is. But that doesn't mean he can't improve certain aspects of his game.....specifically those would be basketball IQ, in-game management (i.e. trying to thread the needle), and shot selection (at times).

Now in his defense, it would also be nice if our bigs had better hands and were stronger with the ball. It would also be nice if we had some sort of consistency from Manek, James, McGusty, etc. from behind the arc. Still, Trae needs to keep trying to get those guys involved. It's no coincidence that we play our best ball when Trae has his highest assist numbers. He is going to get his points, I just want him to have as much help as possible.
Click to expand...

If he's being guarded when he's shooting the deep threes, then he is changing the spacing on the floor. That is the whole idea of his long range shots....that he makes enough for the other team to guard him from long distance, and that it helps spread the floor for his drives and dishes to the wings and post.

His assist rates go up when his teammates hit their shots......

Trae may have made just as many good passes to set up teammates in the last few games.....he's not hogging the ball when his assist rate goes down, it's just that his teammates aren't making some of the shots that they have to make for his assist rate to stay high.
 
stormspencer said:
I agree with everything you said....with the exception of TY's deep 3 shooting. The problem with his deep 3s are:
  • they are now usually contested
  • they are sometimes too early in the shot clock
  • they are too often not in rhythm

All of those above items lead to a lower shooting percentage. He is a great shooter, but If he wants to shoot those deep 3s, then they need to be in rhythm and not 6-7 seconds into the shot clock. My guess is he is shooting around 20-25% from 25+ feet out.....and a portion of those are way too early in the shot clock. I don't have his shot chart in front of me, but those deep 3 misses are primarily wasted possessions when we don't even attempt to get others involved. The "threat" of his deep 3s diminish when he isn't making them....additionally, it doesn't necessarily lead to more "space" on the floor when he is missing. No matter how much he's hyped....he is not Steph Curry. Just watch Golden State, Curry actually plays in an offensive system predicated on ball movement.....not AAU-ish isolation which we have seen a little too much of lately.

Is TY the best player in the country?....most certainly he is. But that doesn't mean he can't improve certain aspects of his game.....specifically those would be basketball IQ, in-game management (i.e. trying to thread the needle), and shot selection (at times).

Now in his defense, it would also be nice if our bigs had better hands and were stronger with the ball. It would also be nice if we had some sort of consistency from Manek, James, McGusty, etc. from behind the arc. Still, Trae needs to keep trying to get those guys involved. It's no coincidence that we play our best ball when Trae has his highest assist numbers. He is going to get his points, I just want him to have as much help as possible.
Click to expand...

The fact that his deep 3 pointers are now contested changes the geometry of the offense for the Sooners (in a good way). It completely opens up the entire floor. Young is shooting 39.6% from 3 point range and I would venture to guess that 75% of his 3 point attempts would be 3 point attempts in the NBA.

Of course OU does better when Young's assists go up....that means the other players are actually hitting their shots. The numbers were posted earlier in the thread for the Okie State game but I'll copy and paste them again.

James 3-11
Manek 3-10
Doolittle 1-5
Odomes 3-7

And as for 3 pointers in that game

James 0-6
Manek 2-7
Odomes 0-1

So, 2-14 on 3 pointers and how many of those were WIDE OPEN because Young set them up? Of those 12 I would venture to guess at least 10 were wide open. The other players hit those wide open 3s at a reasonable rate (35%) and that jumps to 5 out of 14 and OU wins.

And that doesn't go into how many of his passes are fumbled away.

I'm not arguing that Young is infallible because he obviously isn't, but to lay the blame on him and saying there is tension on the team because of his play is laughable.
 
I'm not arguing that Young is infallible because he obviously isn't, but to lay the blame on him and saying there is tension on the team because of his play is laughable.
Click to expand...

Why?
 
152219 said:
The fact that his deep 3 pointers are now contested changes the geometry of the offense for the Sooners (in a good way). It completely opens up the entire floor. Young is shooting 39.6% from 3 point range and I would venture to guess that 75% of his 3 point attempts would be 3 point attempts in the NBA.

Of course OU does better when Young's assists go up....that means the other players are actually hitting their shots. The numbers were posted earlier in the thread for the Okie State game but I'll copy and paste them again.

James 3-11
Manek 3-10
Doolittle 1-5
Odomes 3-7

And as for 3 pointers in that game

James 0-6
Manek 2-7
Odomes 0-1

So, 2-14 on 3 pointers and how many of those were WIDE OPEN because Young set them up? Of those 12 I would venture to guess at least 10 were wide open. The other players hit those wide open 3s at a reasonable rate (35%) and that jumps to 5 out of 14 and OU wins.

And that doesn't go into how many of his passes are fumbled away.

I'm not arguing that Young is infallible because he obviously isn't, but to lay the blame on him and saying there is tension on the team because of his play is laughable.
Click to expand...

If I came across as laying THE blame on Trae, then I didn't communicate well enough. I do think Trae can improve some facets of his game to make us a better team, but he is not the blame.

But I do think we are better served, in the long run, when his deep 3s are "controlled" 3s....meaning in rhythm and not forced early in the shot clock.....and likely not as many. If he is not making enough of his deep 3s, then the supposed space being created on the court is irrelevant because as we can see from the last several games, the offense has gone into/started out in funks.

And yes, most importantly, other guys need to step up and make shots (and just catch the ball in some cases). I would also like to see our shooting numbers in Big 12 play because, as we've seen, the competition has increased.....and thus has had a detrimental effect on our shooting numbers. There are several options moving forward. One would be to have better execution (obviously). Another would be to work the ball for a better/higher percentage shot or have more shots closer to the basket.

We haven't even talked about turnovers turning into easy transition baskets for the opposition lately (and at the same time making our defense look statistically poor), but that is for another discussion.
 
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