Travis Ford testifies at his players' rape trial
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boksooner
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If the judge ruled on the inadmissibility of the lie detector tests, he may well have.
I'm assuming you're a lawyer and if so how would they judge know what Ford was going to say during his testimony? Would there not have to be a deposition or affidavit from Ford with this information on it and are we not assuming a lot of things that had to have happened or taken place for contempt to even been considered an issue? It just sounds like to me a perfect storm type situation that would have had to have occurred to keep the defense from being able to let Ford at least ring the bell on the lie detector issue.
oSuJeff97
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This exactly.
Real life isn't like TV shows, where lawyers and witnesses brazenly defy judges' orders. In real life, you can get it big-time trouble for introducing evidence that the judge previously ruled inadmissible and/or be held in contempt as a witness if you defy the judges' orders.
In terms of this trial, I didn't hear all of the evidence, but based on the media reports, it sure does seem like this was one of those cases where the jury flipped the burden of proof from the prosecution to the defense. Ironically, that tends to happen in cases where there is no physical evidence and/or no "clear cut" answers.
Frankly, I've seen that happen... including on a jury that I sat on with a similar case.
I heard the coach's truly felt he was innocent and that one of the girls has been in this situation before. You have to hope that Williams did these things b/c you don't want to think that this kid is going to jail for something he didn't do.
Does this sound like a guy who didn't do it? The following is a poster on OP's summary of William's conversation with the Stillwater PD.
"He was too drunk to remember what happened but didn't think he could have done it. He didn't think the girls were lying and that something happened but thought he was misidentified. Everyone wants to go to bed with basketball players! It's college,that's what we do, get drunk and have intercourse."
How did Darrell Williams go from this to proving to Ford that he didn't do it? I think there's probably a lot more to this that has to deal with the Oklahoma State basketball program than any of us will ever know unless Darrell Williams starts to sing now that he is the only one faced with going to prison.
"He was too drunk to remember what happened but didn't think he could have done it. He didn't think the girls were lying and that something happened but thought he was misidentified. Everyone wants to go to bed with basketball players! It's college,that's what we do, get drunk and have intercourse."
How did Darrell Williams go from this to proving to Ford that he didn't do it? I think there's probably a lot more to this that has to deal with the Oklahoma State basketball program than any of us will ever know unless Darrell Williams starts to sing now that he is the only one faced with going to prison.
DenverSooner
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I think Ford and OSU made a mistake. I don't know what he said in trial but I really don't see how his testimony could help the kid all that much and it has the potential to damage OSU.
That is kind of what I was thinking. Except that Ford may have damaged himself "with" OSU more they he damaged OSU.
Ford said that DW has "proven" to him that he was innocent. It really suprised me that the prosecution didn't object to that- Ford was only a character witness and I can't imagine how DW proved that he was innocent.
Pretty disgusting to read so many osu fans blame the girls, say there was no proof (somehow they ignore that victim testimony IS evidence), think that racism was involved, etc. The truth is that this is not the first the osu athletic dept/current and former athletes has had major issues in the last 10 years involving current players, former players and coaches.
Pretty disgusting to read so many osu fans blame the girls, say there was no proof (somehow they ignore that victim testimony IS evidence), think that racism was involved, etc. The truth is that this is not the first the osu athletic dept/current and former athletes has had major issues in the last 10 years involving current players, former players and coaches.
The problem with this **** is that there is never any way to prove what happened. Rapes do happen, but women lie about being raped quite often as well.
The entire idea of a rape trial essentially requires the suspension of a reasonable doubt standard.
The entire idea of a rape trial essentially requires the suspension of a reasonable doubt standard.
cowboysooner
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Many years ago, I was a prosecutor in the Marine Corp. I tried a number of "he said/ she said" rape trials. If the woman was a civilian, the Marine corp just didn't want to be accused of white washing something and so they made us try all of those cases, even when it was pretty blatant that the girl was lying.
I won some and I lost some. Never knew what the truth was, and so I would have acquitted in every case. But, I mostly got convictions and long prison sentences meted out.
Until recent times, the government had to have some physical proof or additional witnesses other than the complaining victim. This additional proof requirement was abrogated about the time I became a lawyer (about 30 years ago).
If the marine was a bad apple, I didn't feel to bad about it, but usually the kid was a "4/0" marine and it was hard to sleep after one of those convictions. I argued at numerous meetings with my battlion commanders that they should require the victim to pass a polygraph in close cases in order to get a court martial convened against a kid, but this was never required. I'm not sure why.
I have interviewed countless rape victims and often found that they consented but "didn't want to". In other words, they admitted to me that essentially they were talked out of their lack of consent and did something they subjectively didn't want to do. This isn't rape. Actually, this is basically how most of you pigs get laid.
I understand both sides of the issue, and it gets really muddled when you add voluntary intoxication by the girl and then subsequent sex.
I'll keep my opinions to myself because they may seem a little tough and are perhaps reflect my stupidity. However, I have advised my son and I would advise yours, -- know the risks and be careful who you have sex with, if you don't want to be a felon.
All of this being said, I don't know if Williams is guilty. Sometimes juries get it right and sometimes they don't. There are a lot of issues, including competence of counsel, ability of the people testifying to convey their testimony, and legal rulings. Many other issues. This being said, when I was a criminal defense counsel, I was always scared to death when I had a black kid that proclaimed his innocence but spoke in a heavy black ethnic manner. I have always thought white jurors, although meaning well and wanting to do the right thing, just subconsciously found kids like that less credible becasue they didn't talk like them.
Whatever the truth, I feel for all involved.
I won some and I lost some. Never knew what the truth was, and so I would have acquitted in every case. But, I mostly got convictions and long prison sentences meted out.
Until recent times, the government had to have some physical proof or additional witnesses other than the complaining victim. This additional proof requirement was abrogated about the time I became a lawyer (about 30 years ago).
If the marine was a bad apple, I didn't feel to bad about it, but usually the kid was a "4/0" marine and it was hard to sleep after one of those convictions. I argued at numerous meetings with my battlion commanders that they should require the victim to pass a polygraph in close cases in order to get a court martial convened against a kid, but this was never required. I'm not sure why.
I have interviewed countless rape victims and often found that they consented but "didn't want to". In other words, they admitted to me that essentially they were talked out of their lack of consent and did something they subjectively didn't want to do. This isn't rape. Actually, this is basically how most of you pigs get laid.
I understand both sides of the issue, and it gets really muddled when you add voluntary intoxication by the girl and then subsequent sex.
I'll keep my opinions to myself because they may seem a little tough and are perhaps reflect my stupidity. However, I have advised my son and I would advise yours, -- know the risks and be careful who you have sex with, if you don't want to be a felon.
All of this being said, I don't know if Williams is guilty. Sometimes juries get it right and sometimes they don't. There are a lot of issues, including competence of counsel, ability of the people testifying to convey their testimony, and legal rulings. Many other issues. This being said, when I was a criminal defense counsel, I was always scared to death when I had a black kid that proclaimed his innocence but spoke in a heavy black ethnic manner. I have always thought white jurors, although meaning well and wanting to do the right thing, just subconsciously found kids like that less credible becasue they didn't talk like them.
Whatever the truth, I feel for all involved.
thegreyghost
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Think I will go with the jury that heard all of the evidence over some posters at OP and Travis ford and his little investigation
oSuJeff97
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I don't know if this is directed at me, but I certainly am not "blaming" anyone.
Yes the victim's testimony is evidence, but so is the defendant's. In a case like this, the jury basically decides which evidence to believe. Obviously, they believed the defendant.
But as I said, I've been a member of a jury in a similar case, and it was amazing to me how many jurors - despite being instructed with details by the judge - felt that the defendant was guilty because "he didn't prove that the girl was lying."
In fact there were two of us who had to keep reminding the others that the burden of proof was on the D.A., not the defendant.
I'm not saying that's what happened in this case... I'm just saying that DOES happen, because I've in fact witnessed it first hand.
Oh please. Get off your high horse.
In case you haven't noticed, practically every major colllege program, including OU, have had their problems with "current and former athletes" running afoul of the law.
DenverSooner
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True but I think it is also true that OSU has had a couple of bad incidents lately.
Couple of points here Jeff.
First off I don't think he was referring to you. Go to OrangePower or GoPokes and you'll see the types of people he is talking about.
Secondly Darrell Williams never took the stand in his own defense. The jury never got a chance to believe him.
I don't disagree that most every program seems to have players that have had run ins with the law but there aren't a lot of programs out there with these types of offenses being accused of their players in recent years. This goes well beyond the usual dope and drinking type offenses.
First off I don't think he was referring to you. Go to OrangePower or GoPokes and you'll see the types of people he is talking about.
Secondly Darrell Williams never took the stand in his own defense. The jury never got a chance to believe him.
I don't disagree that most every program seems to have players that have had run ins with the law but there aren't a lot of programs out there with these types of offenses being accused of their players in recent years. This goes well beyond the usual dope and drinking type offenses.
Seymore Cox
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Most people know it's a case of mistaken identity. Why won't OSU drop the dime on the real culprit?
That was not directed at you at all- just the idiots that are defending DW and lambasting the girls and the justice system. I practice law and completely understand confusion on jury instruction, and you're right about that. However, DW never testified, the defense relied heavily on a mistaken identity defense and the fact there was no physical evidence. Some other attorneys on the board might want to chime in, but I actually blame the CSI mentality for some jury issues. I actually thought that alone would keep DW free, but the jury heard enough to convict.
Perhaps I didn't explain the comment about OSU's problems in the last 10 years or so. OSU has had players, former players and coaches in the past 10 years make huge mistakes and I would think the osu administration would be aware of that before letting Travis Ford get on the witness stand for DW and say that DW had "proven" his innocence to Ford- seems like a very big risk to take..
-Eddie Sutton nearly killed a woman, it was widely known in Stillwater that he was a drunk, osu police covered for him, etc.
-Sean Sutton had a drug related melt-down
-Prentice Elliott was a known gang member with ties to all sorts of nasty things; no one else would touch him
-Jamie Blatnik nearly blinded a teammate with a beer bottle
-Chris Collins was convicted of raping a 13-year-old, but Gundy did his "due diligence", right?
-Dez Bryant is apparently living in a different world than the rest of us and was suspended for a year by the NCAA
-Darrell Williams was just convicted of sexual assault
-Travis Ford getting called out in the media for verbally abusing players (yeah- I know that was weak, just saying it's negative pub)
-The Cash for Coffins insurance scam
-TBP lost around $200M in osu investments
-"Cowboys Forever"- okay, that was just for fun!!!
Max Power
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That was not directed at you at all- just the idiots that are defending DW and lambasting the girls and the justice system. I practice law and completely understand confusion on jury instruction, and you're right about that. However, DW never testified, the defense relied heavily on a mistaken identity defense and the fact there was no physical evidence. Some other attorneys on the board might want to chime in, but I actually blame the CSI mentality for some jury issues. I actually thought that alone would keep DW free, but the jury heard enough to convict.
Perhaps I didn't explain the comment about OSU's problems in the last 10 years or so. OSU has had players, former players and coaches in the past 10 years make huge mistakes and I would think the osu administration would be aware of that before letting Travis Ford get on the witness stand for DW and say that DW had "proven" his innocence to Ford- seems like a very big risk to take..
-Eddie Sutton nearly killed a woman, it was widely known in Stillwater that he was a drunk, osu police covered for him, etc.
-Sean Sutton had a drug related melt-down
-Prentice Elliott was a known gang member with ties to all sorts of nasty things; no one else would touch him
-Jamie Blatnik nearly blinded a teammate with a beer bottle
-Chris Collins was convicted of raping a 13-year-old, but Gundy did his "due diligence", right?
-Dez Bryant is apparently living in a different world than the rest of us and was suspended for a year by the NCAA
-Darrell Williams was just convicted of sexual assault
-Travis Ford getting called out in the media for verbally abusing players (yeah- I know that was weak, just saying it's negative pub)
-The Cash for Coffins insurance scam
-TBP lost around $200M in osu investments
-"Cowboys Forever"- okay, that was just for fun!!!
You forgot Justin "Double DUI" Blackmon
Yeah- I tried to avoid any DUIs, traffic violations, etc. since those are more common. There was also an accusation of a gang rape by 4 osu football players around 2004 or so, but that was never prosecuted. I really was just trying to demonstrate what appears to be osu's carelessness in some areas.
