why is everyone blaming the players??

[sooner 1234]

Obviously they have a bunch of growing up to do, but we havent played good team defense since capel has been here.
Thats what bothers me most about him, we dont do the little things good. we dont defend, turnovers, shoot bad % for freethrows,never get steals, never get blocks....we are basicly an AAAU team in college.
We need to get back to basics and learn how to play winning basketball.
sampson may have run half his players off, Rarely got a 5 star player........but he won games.
He got the most out of his players, he also knew those little things is what wins ball games. his defenses would shut teams down, he kept the turnovers low, lead the big 12 in freethrow % every year......and his teams always played hard and never quit.

Sampson may have not had the best morals but this is about x's and o's on this gripe.


Everyone was sick of his slow it down, boring style, average joe filled roster.....well you got your wish. I personaly liked winning games.

I think capel needs to hire a veteran hardnosed assistant to help turnaround our defense. AAU has killed fundamentals in basketball, and if you dont coach it kids wont play it.

 

[bocabull]

Maybe you missed it but Capel has already won 4 NCAA tourament games and has never been 1 and done.

The coach you're bragging about was 1 and done his first 4 seasons, or was it 5?

 

[Sooner Quick]

Guys lets not start one of these Capel vs Sampson threads for the 50th time. It has truly been played out and nobody wins.

 

[SKSooner]

Maybe you missed it but Capel has already won 4 NCAA tourament games and has never been 1 and done.

The coach you're bragging about was 1 and done his first 4 seasons, or was it 5?

Only because he recruited some very questionable talent. Kelvin is an excellent basketball coach. He is nowhere near the recruiter that Jeff Capel is.

Capel's a fine coach. This year might not be the year, but he will get this thing figured out soon enough. He's still a young coach and will only get better as a motivator.

 

[Cheno]

Sampson chose to leave OU on his own. Nobody kicked him out the door.
Plus he's essentially been banned from coaching NCAA D1 college basketball now so it's really a moot point.
Coach Capel needs full support.

 

[Krugerfan52]

I'm not blaming the players. I'm blaming one player and one coach. Willie Warren for putting out no effort whatsoever, and Jeff Capel for allowing him to play nearly the whole game.

Please don't tell me you'd rather have a guy that is banned from the NCAA than our current coach who is struggling with a bunch of freshmen after coaching our team to one of the greatest seasons in OU basketball history in 2009? Remember that?

 

[oSuJeff97]

Maybe you missed it but Capel has already won 4 NCAA tourament games and has never been 1 and done.

That's true...

But Capel also flat-out missed post-season play his first year... Sampson never even missed the NCAA tournament, right? (EDIT: forgot he missed the tournament in 2004... but you did play in the NIT that year, right?)

Also, isn't it also true that Capel is barely above .500 as a coach without Blake Griffin on the roster?

I think that Capel is a good coach, but Griffin was a once-in-a-generation local talent that has certainly made Capel look better over the past few years.

It's yet to be determined how Capel can do without the benefit of that kind of talent to rely on.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

That's true...

But Capel also flat-out missed post-season play his first year... Sampson never even missed the NCAA tournament, right? (EDIT: forgot he missed the tournament in 2004... but you did play in the NIT that year, right?)

Also, isn't it also true that Capel is barely above .500 as a coach without Blake Griffin on the roster?

I think that Capel is a good coach, but Griffin was a once-in-a-generation local talent that has certainly made Capel look better over the past few years.

It's yet to be determined how Capel can do without the benefit of that kind of talent to rely on.

Seriously?

I wonder how Ford will do without Sutton's recruits...LOL; this is about as silly a post as I have read on here in a long time.

 

[oSuJeff97]

Seriously?

I wonder how Ford will do without Sutton's recruits...LOL; this is about as silly a post as I have read on here in a long time.

Every new coach obviously needs some of the talent that the previous coach left... but there's left-over talent, and then there's once-in-a-generation talent like Blake Griffin.

Someone like him only comes along to OSU or OU literally once every 20 years or so.

To say that Capel didn't benefit from that the past few years is ridiculous.

 

[SoonerfanTU]

Also, isn't it also true that Capel is barely above .500 as a coach without Blake Griffin on the roster?

I brought up that same point, and was told that was a poor way of evaluating a coach.

Capel will likely NEVER have a player on his team as good as Blake was last year. So to me, when I evaluate Coach, I'm going to look at last year with a grain of salt. Now, as an OU fan I'm glad we had Blake, and I'm glad we had last year, I just don't think it makes much sense to evaluate Capel's abilities using last year.

And like was pointed out, we've been pretty pedestrian in the other games.

 

[Walter Sobchak]

I'm not blaming the players. I'm blaming one player and one coach. Willie Warren for putting out no effort whatsoever, and Jeff Capel for allowing him to play nearly the whole game.

Totally agree, Capel is just enabling WW's lack of effort by providing no consequences for it.

 

[oSuJeff97]

I brought up that same point, and was told that was a poor way of evaluating a coach.

Capel will likely NEVER have a player on his team as good as Blake was last year. So to me, when I evaluate Coach, I'm going to look at last year with a grain of salt. Now, as an OU fan I'm glad we had Blake, and I'm glad we had last year, I just don't think it makes much sense to evaluate Capel's abilities using last year.

And like was pointed out, we've been pretty pedestrian in the other games.

That's the very point I've brought up several times but been shouted down.

It's not about not giving Capel or OU "credit" for when Blake was there.... it's about making some kind of reasonable judgement about OU's future under Capel given, as you said, that it's pretty unlikely that a talent like Blake will be there again any time soon.

When Capel was barely above .500 his first year, the excuse was that OU had "no talent."

The excuse this year seems to be "youth", even though in the pre-season there were many poster here predicting that adding TMG and Gallon to WW would mean a top 3 Big 12 finish for OU.

And while the season is early, it is worth pointing out that OSU has the youngest roster in the Big 12, but are certainly showing much more effort and intensity at this point in the season.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

Take out "few" and replace with "two".

Who wouldn't be helped by having a Blake Griffin; but that's like saying Bill Self hasn't "proven it" at KU or Roy Williams hasn't "proven it" at UNC. Job 1 of a Coach is to get good talent, Job 2 is to coach it up. Capel has accomplished both jobs on different occassions, only once simultaneously [see last year].

I'm sure we'll be fine, but thanks for the concern!

 

[SoonerfanTU]

Take out "few" and replace with "two".

Who wouldn't be helped by having a Blake Griffin; but that's like saying Bill Self hasn't "proven it" at KU or Roy Williams hasn't "proven it" at UNC. Job 1 of a Coach is to get good talent, Job 2 is to coach it up. Capel has accomplished both jobs on different occassions, only once simultaneously [see last year].

I'm sure we'll be fine, but thanks for the concern!

Not the same comparison at all. Like I said, Capel may never have another player like Blake on his team. On the flip side, Self and Williams consistently have the same level of talent year in and year out.

 

[drmouse]

there is more to life than BB

 

[NickZepp]

That's the very point I've brought up several times but been shouted down.

It's not about not giving Capel or OU "credit" for when Blake was there.... it's about making some kind of reasonable judgement about OU's future under Capel given, as you said, that it's pretty unlikely that a talent like Blake will be there again any time soon.

When Capel was barely above .500 his first year, the excuse was that OU had "no talent."

The excuse this year seems to be "youth", even though in the pre-season there were many poster here predicting that adding TMG and Gallon to WW would mean a top 3 Big 12 finish for OU.

And while the season is early, it is worth pointing out that OSU has the youngest roster in the Big 12, but are certainly showing much more effort and intensity at this point in the season.

That's not an excuse. We had enough talent. We didn't play our best player for half the season. So it is on coaching in the end. Most of that same talent would help lead us to what 4 tournament wins in 2 years? Youth was also an issue that year. But if Nate Carter plays the full season we are at least an NIT team.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

Not the same comparison at all. Like I said, Capel may never have another player like Blake on his team. On the flip side, Self and Williams consistently have the same level of talent year in and year out.

Capel isn't even 35 and has made the NCAA Tournament 3 times with two different teams and has gotten to an Elite Eight; what were either of those guys doing at 35? You want to say that it is all becuase of one guy that Capel had for a grand total of two years, fine, I won't waste my time trying convince you otherwise.

The "problem" is simple. He had a guy come back who wanted to use OU to showcase himself for draft position, and now that things aren't magically going well, he is sulking and not exhibiting effort HOWEVER, he is still the best player that OU has, so by benching him, you may as well just forfeit the season MOREOVER, Capel cares about WWIII and his future, so he won't submarine his opportunity to get drafted in the lottery by benching him either.

I fully expect that Capel is still learning some things in his profession, if he isn't then THAT is where the real problem lies. What you hope is that he can salvage some unity for this season and springboard that potential into a more cohesive unit next year. It sucks, but there have been times that EVERY coach and EVERY program goes through a year like this.

Finally, Kelvin left OU, OU didn't fire him...him leaving was HIS choice. Not sure why people even want to keep talking about the differences between the two [like OU fired Kelvin to get Capel].

 

[NickZepp]

Willie shouldn't make the rest of this team be a team of quitters. OU didn't really fire Kelvin but they gave him a good reason to leave.

 

[Walter Sobchak]

Capel cares about WWIII and his future, so he won't submarine his opportunity to get drafted in the lottery by benching him either.

Sorry, but by NOT benching him, he is hurting his professional opportunities. Scouts are seeing a self-centered player that does not play hard and pouts when things are going tough.

Bench him until he starts playing hard. Then when he decides to give 100% the scouts will see his real potential.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

Willie shouldn't make the rest of this team be a team of quitters. OU didn't really fire Kelvin but they gave him a good reason to leave.

Okay Nick, I'm going to let you in on something, when the guy you are counting on to be a "leader" is not exhibiting effort, it influences the other players on the team. Have you ever been a part of any organization? When people get frustrated with a situation, effort is the first thing to go.

As far as your last sentence, do you realize that Kelvin was in the middle of getting OU put on probation when he left? And that he left to take a job that is perceived to be one of the best in the country? And that he was FIRED from that one for DOING THE EXACT SAME THING THAT HE DID AT OU? That he is BANNED from coaching in D-1? But "OU gave him good reason to leave"?