Will Manziel be the tipping point of the amateur sham?

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bocabull

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The only people prohibited from profiting on college sports is the athlete. A&M auctioned off a Crow/Manziel helmet for $80,000 and he's prohibited from selling his autograph? Meanwhile the NCAA was selling his jersey on their official site?

There's a racial hypocrisy too. I'm not hearing the outrage directed at Manziel like there was against Reggie Bush & Cam Newton.

College football is a pro sport. The $ is overflowing to everybody except the players.
 
The NCAA was not selling his jersey. Turner Sports has the NCAA license and they were the ones making profits of his jersey. Not the NCAA. I hate the NCAA as much as the next guy, but I'm so tired of Manziel breaking the rules being used as some crusade that players should be compensated. A full ride is enough, not to mention great dorms, trips to Europe, and other perks of being a collegiate athlete.
 
bocabull said:
The only people prohibited from profiting on college sports is the athlete. A&M auctioned off a Crow/Manziel helmet for $80,000 and he's prohibited from selling his autograph? Meanwhile the NCAA was selling his jersey on their official site?

There's a racial hypocrisy too. I'm not hearing the outrage directed at Manziel like there was against Reggie Bush & Cam Newton.

College football is a pro sport. The $ is overflowing to everybody except the players.
Click to expand...

Oh wow someone read the racist whitlocks article.

Jm is getting just as much hate as bush or cam. Her street even called him an idiot or such.

And he gets a free education. That's a profit
 
Education, jobs (after college) drs, medicine, massages, gear, shoes, travel... The list goes on!
 
TheGimper said:
The NCAA was not selling his jersey. Turner Sports has the NCAA license and they were the ones making profits of his jersey. Not the NCAA. I hate the NCAA as much as the next guy, but I'm so tired of Manziel breaking the rules being used as some crusade that players should be compensated. A full ride is enough, not to mention great dorms, trips to Europe, and other perks of being a collegiate athlete.
Click to expand...

The NCAA was selling his jersey as well as the jerseys to other big time college athletes on their website. You could go to shopncaasports.com search, Johnny Manziel and his jerseys would pop up. This completely goes against NCAA's stance that they don't sell due to player "likeness." They stopped selling ALL jerseys today, saying it was hypocritical for them to do so.

This argument isn't about giving players a stipend or salary for playing sports, but a right to own their name. The NCAA can sell jerseys off of the "Manziel" name, but Johnny can not. People might say its not fair if (hypothetically) Osby's autograph sells for $1000 but CJ Cole's only sells for $25, but its a simple lesson of supply and demand. These athletes are going to learn the lesson sooner or later.

Jay Bilas was the one who exposed the NCAA on this.
http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcspo...ohnny-manziel-scandal-ed-obannon-case-photos/
 
What a great thread to have on an OU basketball board. Just the kind of thing everyone on here wants to talk about after an OU BBall win. Brilliant. Oh and by the way good job on trying to bring a racial angle into it also, for good measure. We need more of this these days. Again, great post.
 
What needs to happen is the NCAA needs to get together with the NFL and remove the 3 year rule. There are very few players for whom it would be a good financial decision to go pro after a year of CFB. Guys that can make millions of dollars now should be able to leave early. JaDaveon Clowney playing college ball next year is actually kind of laughable.


It's not perfect in college, but in the grand scheme of things it works pretty well. People focus on 1 and dones, but aside from Kentucky, most successful teams are riding guys who are sticking around for a few years. Louisville and Michigan were not full of a bunch of one and dones. Kansas, UNC, Duke, Butler, UConn, etc. have been teams full of veterans. The number of Shabazz Muhammad's who make a mockery of the amateur athlete concept are actually pretty few and far between.
 
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allday92 said:
The NCAA was selling his jersey as well as the jerseys to other big time college athletes on their website. You could go to shopncaasports.com search, Johnny Manziel and his jerseys would pop up. This completely goes against NCAA's stance that they don't sell due to player "likeness." They stopped selling ALL jerseys today, saying it was hypocritical for them to do so.

This argument isn't about giving players a stipend or salary for playing sports, but a right to own their name. The NCAA can sell jerseys off of the "Manziel" name, but Johnny can not. People might say its not fair if (hypothetically) Osby's autograph sells for $1000 but CJ Cole's only sells for $25, but its a simple lesson of supply and demand. These athletes are going to learn the lesson sooner or later.

Jay Bilas was the one who exposed the NCAA on this.
http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcspo...ohnny-manziel-scandal-ed-obannon-case-photos/
Click to expand...

Bilas nailed it - as usual.
 
bocabull said:
The only people prohibited from profiting on college sports is the athlete. A&M auctioned off a Crow/Manziel helmet for $80,000 and he's prohibited from selling his autograph? Meanwhile the NCAA was selling his jersey on their official site?

There's a racial hypocrisy too. I'm not hearing the outrage directed at Manziel like there was against Reggie Bush & Cam Newton.

College football is a pro sport. The $ is overflowing to everybody except the players.
Click to expand...

These kids leave college with a degree and debt free. 5 years of not paying rent, food paid for, books and tuition.

If you want these kids to be paid then everyone needs to get paid and they all need to be stripped of a scholarship. Then can pay rent, tuition, books, food, etc... off of what they get paid and they can pay taxes on it as well.

Anyone that has ever had to pay for tuiton, rent, food, books, and had to keep a job while going to school full time and then leave college with a degree and thousands of dollars in debt prolly shouldn't have any sympathy for a kid that gets the exact opposite plus free tuitors, trainers, and a whole lot more.
 
The problem with allowing them to "get paid" is that it makes cheating that much easier.

Okay, they can get paid for autographs? How bout that Kentucky booster that is going to start offering ridiculously above market value pay for some kid's autograph? For some of the top recruits, it'll turn into a game of "who has the most money."

There really is no right answer, or good answer to this question. But I think the way the NCAA does it is probably the best. Or at least, it allows for the easiest tracking of blatant cheating.

As for Bush and Newton, didn't they do a heck of a lot more than take $10k for autographs? Weren't Bush's parents put up in a several hundred thousand dollar home for free? Wasn't the cash figure thrown around in the Newton deal also in the hundreds of thousands? And you really wonder why the "outcry" is different? That's a clown post, bro.
 
I get so tired of people trying to turn everything into a white/black issues. Its been played out way to much.
Def a clown post I agree
 
bgrch1350 said:
These kids leave college with a degree and debt free. 5 years of not paying rent, food paid for, books and tuition.

If you want these kids to be paid then everyone needs to get paid and they all need to be stripped of a scholarship. Then can pay rent, tuition, books, food, etc... off of what they get paid and they can pay taxes on it as well.

Anyone that has ever had to pay for tuiton, rent, food, books, and had to keep a job while going to school full time and then leave college with a degree and thousands of dollars in debt prolly shouldn't have any sympathy for a kid that gets the exact opposite plus free tuitors, trainers, and a whole lot more.
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If you leave school with so much debt it is hindering your future financial growth, you went to the wrong school...period.

As for the NCAA, major reforms are coming and have been for a while. There is a reason ADs are no longer former coaches, but CPAs, MBAs and former CEOs. It's a business, and to maximize the university's take, the chains will be broken. If people don't like it, no problem, they can watch I-AA football.
 
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WTSooner said:
The problem with allowing them to "get paid" is that it makes cheating that much easier.

Okay, they can get paid for autographs? How bout that Kentucky booster that is going to start offering ridiculously above market value pay for some kid's autograph? For some of the top recruits, it'll turn into a game of "who has the most money."

There really is no right answer, or good answer to this question. But I think the way the NCAA does it is probably the best. Or at least, it allows for the easiest tracking of blatant cheating.

As for Bush and Newton, didn't they do a heck of a lot more than take $10k for autographs? Weren't Bush's parents put up in a several hundred thousand dollar home for free? Wasn't the cash figure thrown around in the Newton deal also in the hundreds of thousands? And you really wonder why the "outcry" is different? That's a clown post, bro.
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The system works great with most athletes. It doesn't work with two subsets:

1) The Johnny Manziels and Jadaveon Clowneys. The very top tier of players are worth millions to their universities, and yet are compensated with a scholarship that's worth like $20,000 a year for an in state student. That's kind of a joke.

2) Those who just don't have the mental abilities to obtain or make use of a college education. If you're too dumb to use a college education, than compensating these guys with a scholarship is like paying a vegetarian in McDonald's coupons. There are many people in this world that are not cut out for college.
 
Face it folks, when the people who are collecting the cash (billions) are the same people who determine what benefits the producers of their product are allowed to receive in a monopoly environment it's a huge conflict of interest.

There is no difference between Bob Stoops, Reggie Bush, Cam Newton or Johnny Manziel. They are all trying to monetize their value in a capitalist society. Stoops is simply the beneficiary of a bogus set of rules in a rigged game that would be illegal in the real business world. The truth is that college football is a business like every company in the S&P 500 and should be subject to the same antitrust and labor regulations.
 
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bocabull said:
Face it folks, when the people who are collecting the cash (billions) are the same people who determine what benefits the producers of their product are allowed to receive in a monopoly environment it's a huge conflict of interest.

There is no difference between Bob Stoops, Reggie Bush, Cam Newton or Johnny Manziel. They are all trying to monetize their value in a capitalist society. Stoops is simply the beneficiary of a bogus set of rules in a rigged game that would be illegal in the real business world. The truth is that college football is a business like every company in the S&P 500 and should be subject to the same antitrust and labor regulations.
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Nobody says they have to go to college. And this applies to sperry's comment above too. If they want to make money after HS but before the NFL, they should stay out of college. They can then do what they want. Go play arena league football. Leave the country. Start your own league.

Fact of the matter is, not only are those guys getting the educational benefits of college for free, and the free place to live and free meals, but they are also getting football training for free. Football training that the NFL finds beneficial.

I agree that they probably need to do away with the 3 year rule, but I'm not sure to what extent. I'd like to see both football and basketball have a rule that states the kids can go pro right out of HS, or they have to go to college for 2 years. Period. Maybe a clause that if after one year they project (would need rules on what projections are valid) as top 10 picks, they can leave then too. Something like that. I don't like one and dones, but I also don't like forcing kids like AD to stick around for 3 years.
 
sperry said:
The system works great with most athletes. It doesn't work with two subsets:

1) The Johnny Manziels and Jadaveon Clowneys. The very top tier of players are worth millions to their universities, and yet are compensated with a scholarship that's worth like $20,000 a year for an in state student. That's kind of a joke.

2) Those who just don't have the mental abilities to obtain or make use of a college education. If you're too dumb to use a college education, than compensating these guys with a scholarship is like paying a vegetarian in McDonald's coupons. There are many people in this world that are not cut out for college.
Click to expand...

tough ****
 
sperry said:
The system works great with most athletes. It doesn't work with two subsets:

1) The Johnny Manziels and Jadaveon Clowneys. The very top tier of players are worth millions to their universities, and yet are compensated with a scholarship that's worth like $20,000 a year for an in state student. That's kind of a joke.

2) Those who just don't have the mental abilities to obtain or make use of a college education. If you're too dumb to use a college education, than compensating these guys with a scholarship is like paying a vegetarian in McDonald's coupons. There are many people in this world that are not cut out for college.
Click to expand...

Its worth way more than $20,000. When you add in athletic trainers, tuitors, nutrition supplements, nutritionists for them, the athletic clothes and shoes that are provided to them by the football program. Free flights to different states to play these games. The free stuff they get for playing in a bowl game.

If these kids want to get paid...then quit football and get a job.
 
WTSooner said:
Nobody says they have to go to college. And this applies to sperry's comment above too. If they want to make money after HS but before the NFL, they should stay out of college. They can then do what they want. Go play arena league football. Leave the country. Start your own league.

Fact of the matter is, not only are those guys getting the educational benefits of college for free, and the free place to live and free meals, but they are also getting football training for free. Football training that the NFL finds beneficial.

I agree that they probably need to do away with the 3 year rule, but I'm not sure to what extent. I'd like to see both football and basketball have a rule that states the kids can go pro right out of HS, or they have to go to college for 2 years. Period. Maybe a clause that if after one year they project (would need rules on what projections are valid) as top 10 picks, they can leave then too. Something like that. I don't like one and dones, but I also don't like forcing kids like AD to stick around for 3 years.
Click to expand...



Except that no legitimate competitors can emerge because the NFL and NCAA collude in what would be a clear antitrust violation in any other industry. So, yes they do have to go to college, if they want to pursue their chosen vocation. Despite the fact that a college education is in no way necessary for their on the field success at that endeavor.


Basically, the NFL forces high school kids to go to college if htey ever want a shot at the league, and the NCAA forces them to sign away the rights to all of their earning potential during that three year period. It's a sham, and the system is going to topple pretty soon. The incompetence of the NCAA is going to speed that process up.
 
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