Woodard's technical: A probably dumb question

skyvue

skyvue

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Obviously Woodard has to keep his cool on a play like that, but I wondered: The WVU defender was pressing him, in a sense, even though the ball wasn't in play (nor was Woodard yet in position to throw the ball in).

Is there a rule about that? Can you, in effect, play defense on a guy when the ball's not in play? It just sort of appeared the guy was trying to get under Woodard's skin, to intimidate him (and sadly, it worked) and it's likely only because Woodard tossed the ball at him that I even noticed -- it probably happens all the time -- but I wondered if there was anything about the WVU player's actions that the officials could have whistled, almost like a taunting call or something.
 
I just watched it again, so let me try to clarify what I'm asking. As soon as the guy steals the ball and hits his layup, he heads straight for Woodard, looming over him, trying to intimidate him, before Woodard even had the ball and Woodard never did get in position to make the in-bounds throw. I could see why Woodard got irritated (the steal and layup contributed to his annoyance, I'm sure).

I just wondered if an official, trying to keep the players under control, might whistle an action like that, much as he might call someone for taunting, just to make sure the players keep their heads.
 
Adrian definitely baited Woodard into that T. I did see him kinda bump Woodard and Woodard kinda push him back with his hand before Adrian body him up again. That's when Woodard pushed him with the ball, but I think the ref should've seen they were both guilty and conferenced with both of them instead of just T'ing up Woodard. But IMO Woodard's T was a little more warranted than that BS technical they gave Spangler.
 
RyanMinorFanClub said:
Adrian definitely baited Woodard into that T. I did see him kinda bump Woodard and Woodard kinda push him back with his hand before Adrian body him up again. That's when Woodard pushed him with the ball, but I think the ref should've seen they were both guilty and conferenced with both of them instead of just T'ing up Woodard. But IMO Woodard's T was a little more warranted than that BS technical they gave Spangler.
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Woodard deserved the T. You have to be more discreet than that but he did it right in front of the official.

No, there isn't a rule about the defender needing to keep a certain distance until the ball is in play because technically after a basket the ball is in play anyway. Adrian was doing what he's supposed to do and is coached to do.
 
I agree that he deserved it. Just my Sooner bias makes me blame Adrian for causing Woodard to lose his composure for a minute. Lol
 
Big Old Booger said:
Woodard deserved the T. You have to be more discreet than that but he did it right in front of the official.

No, there isn't a rule about the defender needing to keep a certain distance until the ball is in play because technically after a basket the ball is in play anyway. Adrian was doing what he's supposed to do and is coached to do.
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Fran said the ball's not officially in play till Woodard (or whomever) crosses the out-of-bounds line to make the throw in.

I agree that the official should have spoken to them both. Obviously Jordan's actions made it easy to call the T, but I think Adrian crossed a (less obvious) line, too. If I'd been the official I'd have warned him to cool it a bit.
 
skyvue said:
Fran said the ball's not officially in play till Woodard (or whomever) crosses the out-of-bounds line to make the throw in.

I agree that the official should have spoken to them both. Obviously Jordan's actions made it easy to call the T, but I think Adrian crossed a (less obvious) line, too. If I'd been the official I'd have warned him to cool it a bit.
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If you know woodard is going to inbound the ball, you go ahead and shadow him. That's a good strategy and perfectly legal. You can't push the defender with the ball because he is guarding you. He is allowed to guard the inbounder
 
Max Power said:
If you know woodard is going to inbound the ball, you go ahead and shadow him. That's a good strategy and perfectly legal. You can't push the defender with the ball because he is guarding you. He is allowed to guard the inbounder
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Woodard wasn't yet the inbounder at that point. Not even close. So there was nothing to defend, not until Jordan had the ball and stepped across the out-of-bounds line and the official gave the ok. Adrian's actions crossed a line, in my opinion (and in Jordan's, it would seem).

I'm not saying it was a huge deal, but if I were the official, I'd put a stop to that. It's the kind of behavior that can cause flare-ups between players.
 
skyvue said:
Woodard wasn't yet the inbounder at that point. Not even close. So there was nothing to defend, not until Jordan had the ball and stepped across the out-of-bounds line and the official gave the ok. Adrian's actions crossed a line, in my opinion (and in Jordan's, it would seem).

I'm not saying it was a huge deal, but if I were the official, I'd put a stop to that. It's the kind of behavior that can cause flare-ups between players.
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Woodard had been inbounding the ball all game against the press. WVU knew he was the inbounder so as soon as the ball went in, the defender shadowed him so he would be in position. That is good defense.

Woodard lost his cool because a press had just caused him to have a turnover that led to an immediate layup and it frustrated him. You can't let it get to you to the point you do what Woodard did. At lease it was a learning experience that didn't cost us today.
 
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Max Power said:
Woodard had been inbounding the ball all game against the press. WVU knew he was the inbounder so as soon as the ball went in, the defender shadowed him so he would be in position. That is good defense.

Woodard lost his cool because a press had just caused him to have a turnover that led to an immediate layup and it frustrated him. You can't let it get to you to the point you do what Woodard did. At lease it was a learning experience that didn't cost us today.
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I agree with your second paragraph (I've stated the same above), but there is no practical purpose for, while the ball is dead, pressing a player who is still in the field of play and therefore not in a position to make the inbounds pass (and who doesn't even have the ball in his possession). It was an intimidation move, plain and simple.
 
skyvue said:
I agree with your second paragraph (I've stated the same above), but there is no practical purpose for, while the ball is dead, pressing a player who is still in the field of play and therefore not in a position to make the inbounds pass (and who doesn't even have the ball in his possession). It was an intimidation move, plain and simple.
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Have you ever coached or played a press defense? That is exactly what you are supposed to do, you follow your man to the spot so he doesn't have an opening. If you wait until he is out of bounds then move towards him he has passing lanes.
 
Max Power said:
Have you ever coached or played a press defense? That is exactly what you are supposed to do, you follow your man to the spot so he doesn't have an opening. If you wait until he is out of bounds then move towards him he has passing lanes.
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I have no doubt the defender was doing what he was supposed to do. But he was running his mouth at the same time. I doubt that what he said was substantially less than whatever Spangler said that drew a T.
 
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Obviously wood can't do that but all the sudden the 3ft rule doesn't apply anymore??
 
skyvue said:
Fran said the ball's not officially in play till Woodard (or whomever) crosses the out-of-bounds line to make the throw in.

I agree that the official should have spoken to them both. Obviously Jordan's actions made it easy to call the T, but I think Adrian crossed a (less obvious) line, too. If I'd been the official I'd have warned him to cool it a bit.
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Let me clarify, the ball isn't "in play" until it's inbounded. However, it wasn't a dead ball either as the clock is still running. Had it been a dead ball and Adrian was playing him like that then maybe the official says something.

However, watch any game when a team is about to throw it inbound, (not after a made basket but in a dead ball situation) especially on their end of the court and watch the defensive players basically get in the offensive players shorts waiting for the ball the be thrown in. Buddy does this as bad as anyone, he even puts his arm around the offensive player to limit the offensive player's movements. That's good basketball play, IMO.

If I were a coach, I'd love to have Adrian on my team. The guy hustles and that's all you can ask, and he can shoot.
 
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