Would we be better off if WW was dismissed from the team?

[MO]

Get off WW's back

Willie is a terrific player. He doesn't owe anyone, much less the posters on this board, the responsibility of being the team leader. He is not uniquely responsible for the fact that this team is not very good. WW has only the obligation to play his best and I have not seen anything from to WW to suggest that he is not playing his best. He invested his career coming to OU to play. He does not deserve to be the focus of fans frustrated that their team is not winning.

 

[jmizzy4ou]

Team dismissal? This is what we're contemplating now for WW?

We've reached a new low.

I agree. He has not meritted being dismissed, at least not from what we have seen/heard. Yes he does frustrate at times, but I don't think frustrating fans is reason to dismiss.

 

[BigTime]

Re: Get off WW's back

Willie is a terrific player. He doesn't owe anyone, much less the posters on this board, the responsibility of being the team leader. He is not uniquely responsible for the fact that this team is not very good. WW has only the obligation to play his best and I have not seen anything from to WW to suggest that he is not playing his best. He invested his career coming to OU to play. He does not deserve to be the focus of fans frustrated that their team is not winning.

Try watching him play defense. OU also invested two years of free basketball in Willie Warren and he is only playing for himself.

 

[MO]

I don't buy that nonsense one bit. Give me the stats on the players he matches up with showing his defensive deficiencies. Give me one piece of evidence that he is playing offensively outside of what his coach has instructed. The point is WW does not have to live up to the expectations of the fans. Not everyone is cut out to be a team leader. Without his aggressive offensive play this team would have nothing. Fault not having the players needed to have a well balanced team, not a player doing what he can.

Sorry, it just bad form to take out the lack of wins on a player.

 

[Sam]

Willie Warren has become this year's message board verison of Austin Johnson (the blame guy), did not see this coming before the season.

 

[BigTime]

I don't buy that nonsense one bit. Give me the stats on the players he matches up with showing his defensive deficiencies. Give me one piece of evidence that he is playing offensively outside of what his coach has instructed. The point is WW does not have to live up to the expectations of the fans. Not everyone is cut out to be a team leader. Without his aggressive offensive play this team would have nothing. Fault not having the players needed to have a well balanced team, not a player doing what he can.

Sorry, it just bad form to take out the lack of wins on a player.

What do you want me to do, make you a highlight video from the last two games of Warren dogging it on defense? I will if that is what you want. I don't profess to be an expert on the game, but it is clear as a bell that he is putting out the least amount of effort on defense.

I also highly doubt that Coach Capel is telling him to force it through three guys when he has the two best shooters on the team this year (TMG and Crock) sitting wide open ready for the kick-out. He did that three times against Gonzaga, and it resulted in two TOs and a badly missed lay-up. It wouldn't hurt to see him hit a wide open teammate.

Is Warren the only reason that this team is 8-5? Far from it. But what he is doing is flat out poor, and seems ridiculous for a guy that wants to be a lotto pick.

At some point, the blame is going to shift from Willie to the coaching staff because they need to bench him if he doesn't play with effort on defense. It baffles me that nothing changed between the UTEP game and the Gonzaga game.

I will be the first to recognize it if/when he starts playing hard on both ends. I have seen flashes of it this year from him (the Utah second half/OT comes to mind).

 

[sheepdogs]

I don't buy that nonsense one bit. Give me the stats on the players he matches up with showing his defensive deficiencies. Give me one piece of evidence that he is playing offensively outside of what his coach has instructed. The point is WW does not have to live up to the expectations of the fans. Not everyone is cut out to be a team leader. Without his aggressive offensive play this team would have nothing. Fault not having the players needed to have a well balanced team, not a player doing what he can.

Sorry, it just bad form to take out the lack of wins on a player.

From the offensive side of things what has the coach instructed Willie to do?

 

[campbest]

I don't buy that nonsense one bit. Give me the stats on the players he matches up with showing his defensive deficiencies. Give me one piece of evidence that he is playing offensively outside of what his coach has instructed. The point is WW does not have to live up to the expectations of the fans. Not everyone is cut out to be a team leader. Without his aggressive offensive play this team would have nothing. Fault not having the players needed to have a well balanced team, not a player doing what he can.

Sorry, it just bad form to take out the lack of wins on a player.

Willie is not solely responsible for this teams downfall so far, but he definitely isn't the bright spot.

All you have to do is watch Willie when he doesn't have the ball in his hands, it is pretty telling.

 

[Tony]

Willie Warren has become this year's message board verison of Austin Johnson (the blame guy), did not see this coming before the season.

Familiarity breeds contempt.

 

[MO]

Sheepdogs, I suspect his coach has told him to take the ball to the basket since no one else can score.

I'm not really trying to attack you Bigtime. I think you are a good poster, but by all means, make that video

Two points:

First, I'm watching Kentucky and Louisville play. If John Wall was playing at OU and Willie was playing at Kentucky, guess what, we would still suck and John Wall would be a bum. He would be described as someone who played no defense and had a bad attitude. Willie would complement great talent at Kentucky and be a strong contributor.

Second, people repeat what they hear. After it is repeated enough, it becomes accepted as fact. The people on this site are painting a picture of WW that may not be far and is certainly costing him money. Someone is eventually going to get sued doing what people do on this board and they should be. Aside, from that issue, is this really the discussion we want to have about a top player who decided to play at OU.

I agree, we had to listen to 4 years of this talk with AJ. It was never fair and it was never accurate.

 

[campbest]

Sheepdogs, I suspect his coach has told him to take the ball to the basket since no one else can score.

I'm not really trying to attack you Bigtime. I think you are a good poster, but by all means, make that video

Two points:

First, I'm watching Kentucky and Louisville play. If John Wall was playing at OU and Willie was playing at Kentucky, guess what, we would still suck and John Wall would be a bum. He would be described as someone who played no defense and had a bad attitude. Willie would complement great talent at Kentucky and be a strong contributor.

Second, people repeat what they hear. After it is repeated enough, it becomes accepted as fact. The people on this site are painting a picture of WW that may not be far and is certainly costing him money. Someone is eventually going to get sued doing what people do on this board and they should be. Aside, from that issue, is this really the discussion we want to have about a top player who decided to play at OU.

I agree, we had to listen to 4 years of this talk with AJ. It was never fair and it was never accurate.

I have no knowledge of behind the scenes altercations, disagreements or anything of that sort, so I don't comment on that. However, if you look at Willie when the ball is not in his hands (offense or defense) it is easy to understand why people believe he is a selfish player. Willie's effort is without a doubt sub-par unless he is dribbling or shooting....bottom line.

 

[sheepdogs]

Sheepdogs, I suspect his coach has told him to take the ball to the basket since no one else can score.

I'm not really trying to attack you Bigtime. I think you are a good poster, but by all means, make that video

Two points:

First, I'm watching Kentucky and Louisville play. If John Wall was playing at OU and Willie was playing at Kentucky, guess what, we would still suck and John Wall would be a bum. He would be described as someone who played no defense and had a bad attitude. Willie would complement great talent at Kentucky and be a strong contributor.

Second, people repeat what they hear. After it is repeated enough, it becomes accepted as fact. The people on this site are painting a picture of WW that may not be far and is certainly costing him money. Someone is eventually going to get sued doing what people do on this board and they should be. Aside, from that issue, is this really the discussion we want to have about a top player who decided to play at OU.

I agree, we had to listen to 4 years of this talk with AJ. It was never fair and it was never accurate.

It's just a query but how are the posters on this board responsible for "costing him money?" On the flip side, if posters were "only" complimentary then would that increase his money making ability.

 

[Cheno]

No way would this team be better off without WW.
I'm not sure they'd win 3-4 more games without him.

 

[Sooner Quick]

As far as I know WW has not broken any rules so no I do not think he should be dismissed from the team.

I do think he should spend at least one game coming off the bench because like others have pointed out his lack of effort when he does not have the ball in his hands is uncalled for and his defensive effort is absolutely inexcusable. I'm not sure what exactly is wrong but he has a tendency to "pout" when something doesn't go his way and maybe watching things from the bench with a coach in his ear can help him out.

Now if it later comes out that he is causing problems with the chemistry of the team then yes he should be dismissed or at the very least disciplined.

I do find it funny that some posters are calling out WW "bashers" when those same posters were bashing Cade Davis. Regardless lets stop with the player bashing! To be critical of their play is one thing but lets not cross that over into bashing of players or posters.

 

[SoonerDan74012]

I had a feeling that this topic would get brought up and no he shouldn't be dismissed because he hasn't done anything to warrant it. I do think that benching him for a game or two could possibly wake him up a little bit.

 

[MO]

It's pretty simple really. This discussion is part of the recognized and evolving perception of WW. That perception impacts the intangibles that increase or diminish a player's value. The NBA does not pay people any more than they have to pay. I have always objected to labels, but people attract labels based on true or untrue public discussion.

 

[Sooner Quick]

I had a feeling that this topic would get brought up and no he shouldn't be dismissed because he hasn't done anything to warrant it. I do think that benching him for a game or two could possibly wake him up a little bit.

I agree, when Capel benched him the whole game earlier in the year he came out like a mad man the next game. Its unfortunate that might be what it takes to wake him up.

 

[sheepdogs]

It's pretty simple really. This discussion is part of the recognized and evolving perception of WW. That perception impacts the intangibles that increase or diminish a player's value. The NBA does not pay people any more than they have to pay. I have always objected to labels, but people attract labels based on true or untrue public discussion.

Believe what you want but I doubt pro scouts care what is said on this board unless it has merit and if it were to have merit it would be based on the actions of the player and not the collective motions of the posters, especially if the board opinions were based essentially on nothing but nonsense. And if what you say has any validity then what would prevent NBA teams from mandating some of their employees to sign up to become members of these type of boards with the explicit intention to deride certain players so they won't be able to garner larger contracts and thus reduce salary expenditures.

 

[seniorsooner]

What do you want me to do, make you a highlight video from the last two games of Warren dogging it on defense? I will if that is what you want. I don't profess to be an expert on the game, but it is clear as a bell that he is putting out the least amount of effort on defense.

I also highly doubt that Coach Capel is telling him to force it through three guys when he has the two best shooters on the team this year (TMG and Crock) sitting wide open ready for the kick-out. He did that three times against Gonzaga, and it resulted in two TOs and a badly missed lay-up. It wouldn't hurt to see him hit a wide open teammate.

Is Warren the only reason that this team is 8-5? Far from it. But what he is doing is flat out poor, and seems ridiculous for a guy that wants to be a lotto pick.

At some point, the blame is going to shift from Willie to the coaching staff because they need to bench him if he doesn't play with effort on defense. It baffles me that nothing changed between the UTEP game and the Gonzaga game.

I will be the first to recognize it if/when he starts playing hard on both ends. I have seen flashes of it this year from him (the Utah second half/OT comes to mind).

:clap

As usual you said it better than I did.

 

[Darwin]

Why do you heap all the failures of the team on WW. This team is bad mostly because it is missing a few upperclassmen and using too many freshman. WW was not ready for the load that was placed on him and the supporting cast made the load heavier. WW is not Superman, he went in last years draft #1. He never proved that he was a POY type guy yet that is what we expected but you can't just wish it and then expect it to be true.