2025 Recruiting Thread

[SoonerBounce13]

Yea, Los, Oweh, the Groves, Noland, Cortes … those guys all really took off. It’s frankly shocking that 30 NBA teams passed on all of them twice.

But I’m sure you’ll point to Waldo and Moore as the two examples of guys who improved. I guess 2 players in 3 years is quite impressive.

Comical

 

[Boom Soon]

I don’t understand the narrative that players don’t get better under pm

None of us can say anything about player development under Moser because players don’t stick around long enough to actually be developed. I guess we might be able to judge based off how Godwin and Luke perform this year.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Comical

Correct. It is quite amusing how you post so often, yet never actually make a point of your own.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

None of us can say anything about player development under Moser because players don’t stick around long enough to actually be developed. I guess we might be able to judge based off how Godwin and Luke perform this year.

Hogwash

 

[CoachTalk]

Correct. It is quite amusing how you post so often, yet never actually make a point of your own.

Coming from you? That’s comical… rinse wash repeat… l

 

[TINY]

Yea, Los, Oweh, the Groves, Noland, Cortes … those guys all really took off. It’s frankly shocking that 30 NBA teams passed on all of them twice.

But I’m sure you’ll point to Waldo and Moore as the two examples of guys who improved. I guess 2 players in 3 years is quite impressive.

Hill, Gibson, Harkless all improved significantly under moser. Godwin has improved a lot. Oweh improved slightly last year even with the 2nd half slump. Los improved in essentially every stat except shooting percentage.

Credit goes mostly to the players for working hard but your narrative that players don’t improve under moser is just not true.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Hill, Gibson, Harkless all improved significantly under moser. Godwin has improved a lot. Oweh improved slightly last year even with the 2nd half slump. Los improved in essentially every stat except shooting percentage.

Credit goes mostly to the players for working hard but your narrative that players don’t improve under moser is just not true.

Harkless "improved" so much that he was removed from the starting lineup, and by the time he left OU, still couldn't hanlde the ball or make a shot. Godwin's per possession and per 40 minute numbers didn't change much -- his stats went up because his playing time increased since we still can't recruit better bigs. Oweh was worse in Big 12 play this season than he was in the final 8 or 10 games of his freshman year, and lost his starting job because it. If those are three of the guys you point to in support of his ability to develop players, it speaks volumes.

 

[TINY]

Harkless "improved" so much that he was removed from the starting lineup, and by the time he left OU, still couldn't hanlde the ball or make a shot. Godwin's per possession and per 40 minute numbers didn't change much -- his stats went up because his playing time increased since we still can't recruit better bigs. Oweh was worse in Big 12 play this season than he was in the final 8 or 10 games of his freshman year, and lost his starting job because it. If those are three of the guys you point to in support of his ability to develop players, it speaks volumes.

Godwin was one of the best rebounders in the country last year. His per is meaningless when he was facing mostly bench players in previous years. He has improved a lot, it isn’t even debatable.

I just looked at Harkless yoy and to your point he was more or less the same player. He was the same guy at unlv too though. Cortes, noland, hill did not make significant strides at their new programs either. I can’t really think of any player who did except maybe Alston (who was simply not physically ready as a fr at ou). Certainly nothing as significant as Alondes Williams improvement at Wake, Brady Manek’s at UNC, or Kur Kueth at Marquette after leaving OU under Lon.

Goldwire is another player who improved under moser that I forgot.


Guys who improved significantly under PM:

Moj
Goldwire
Hill
Godwin
soares
Moore

 

[StoopsBros]

 

[WichitaSooner]

Godwin was one of the best rebounders in the country last year. His per is meaningless when he was facing mostly bench players in previous years. He has improved a lot, it isn’t even debatable.

I just looked at Harkless yoy and to your point he was more or less the same player. He was the same guy at unlv too though. Cortes, noland, hill did not make significant strides at their new programs either. I can’t really think of any player who did except maybe Alston (who was simply not physically ready as a fr at ou). Certainly nothing as significant as Alondes Williams improvement at Wake, Brady Manek’s at UNC, or Kur Kueth at Marquette after leaving OU under Lon.

Goldwire is another player who improved under moser that I forgot.


Guys who improved significantly under PM:

Moj
Goldwire
Hill
Godwin
soares
Moore

It absolutely is debatable with respect to Godwin. There is a reason we tried (and unfortunately failed) to find someone to come in and take his spot in the starting five. He does one thing very well, and that is offensive rebound. He did that well his first season in Norman, too. He hasn't developed a shot or in any way expanded his game. His minutes increased because the guy we signed to start wasn't in shape, and ultimately got hurt. Sam may have marginally improved, but nothing beyond what should reasonably be expected of a player as they get older.

Goldwire -- meh. His assists, rebounds, steals, turnovers, and 3-pt shooting were worse at OU than in his final season at Duke. Scoring went up quite a bit because he shot more and played on a worse team. but his overall offensive rating was worse than at Duke. He had a nice stretch late in the season IIRC, but his overall season was a bit of a disappointment. I mean, he was the PG on a team that turned the ball over a ton and blew a lot of late leads with sloppy play.

 

[TINY]

It absolutely is debatable with respect to Godwin. There is a reason we tried (and unfortunately failed) to find someone to come in and take his spot in the starting five. He does one thing very well, and that is offensive rebound. He did that well his first season in Norman, too. He hasn't developed a shot or in any way expanded his game. His minutes increased because the guy we signed to start wasn't in shape, and ultimately got hurt. Sam may have marginally improved, but nothing beyond what should reasonably be expected of a player as they get older.

we lost Hugley so we needed another big man. Why wouldn’t we try to get someone better than Godwin? Godwin has improved in every facet. You can let your hatred of PM continue to cloud your judgment though.

Goldwire -- meh. His assists, rebounds, steals, turnovers, and 3-pt shooting were worse at OU than in his final season at Duke. Scoring went up quite a bit because he shot more and played on a worse team. but his overall offensive rating was worse than at Duke. He had a nice stretch late in the season IIRC, but his overall season was a bit of a disappointment. I mean, he was the PG on a team that turned the ball over a ton and blew a lot of late leads with sloppy play.

Goldwire doubled his scoring (5.8ppg to 10.4) while shooting it 7% better from the field in a more difficult league, especially defensively.

Why no response about how Alondes, Manek turned into bonafide stars after they left your gold standard of coaching, Lon Kruger?

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Harkless "improved" so much that he was removed from the starting lineup, and by the time he left OU, still couldn't hanlde the ball or make a shot. Godwin's per possession and per 40 minute numbers didn't change much -- his stats went up because his playing time increased since we still can't recruit better bigs. Oweh was worse in Big 12 play this season than he was in the final 8 or 10 games of his freshman year, and lost his starting job because it. If those are three of the guys you point to in support of his ability to develop players, it speaks volumes.

Damn Moser for not being able to teach a college player how to dribble better, a skill he has been doing all his life, in one season!

 

[WichitaSooner]

we lost Hugley so we needed another big man. Why wouldn’t we try to get someone better than Godwin? Godwin has improved in every facet. You can let your hatred of PM continue to cloud your judgment though.



Goldwire doubled his scoring (5.8ppg to 10.4) while shooting it 7% better from the field in a more difficult league, especially defensively.

Why no response about how Alondes, Manek turned into bonafide stars after they left your gold standard of coaching, Lon Kruger?

Because what does Lon Kruger have to do with a discussion of whether Culture Wall Moser develops players?

As for Goldwire, he got worse in about 90 percent of statistics. Of course his scoring went up -- he went from playing with a bunch of high-end talent to playing on a team that relied heavily on Tanner Groves. You realize that his offensive rating (which, as I already noted, got worse at OU) takes into account his scoring average, right? And even with that big increase in scoring, he was actually a worse offensive player.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Damn Moser for not being able to teach a college player how to dribble better, a skill he has been doing all his life, in one season!

Shoot, someone should tell Sampson that he wasted all that time turning Shead from a guy who entered college with a turnover issue into a conference POY, first-team All American, and draft pick. I guess you're the only one smart enough to crack the code and realize that there is nothing coaches can do to improve players' skills in college. I'm curious -- what is the cutoff point? High school? Junior high? Or is it all set in stone after, say, fourth grade? Should YMCA coaches be the ones making the big bucks since they are the ones coaching players at the age when they can actually improve?

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Shoot, someone should tell Sampson that he wasted all that time turning Shead from a guy who entered college with a turnover issue into a conference POY, first-team All American, and draft pick. I guess you're the only one smart enough to crack the code and realize that there is nothing coaches can do to improve players' skills in college. I'm curious -- what is the cutoff point? High school? Junior high? Or is it all set in stone after, say, fourth grade? Should YMCA coaches be the ones making the big bucks since they are the ones coaching players at the age when they can actually improve?

lol...you are so predictable

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Shoot, someone should tell Sampson that he wasted all that time turning Shead from a guy who entered college with a turnover issue into a conference POY, first-team All American, and draft pick. I guess you're the only one smart enough to crack the code and realize that there is nothing coaches can do to improve players' skills in college. I'm curious -- what is the cutoff point? High school? Junior high? Or is it all set in stone after, say, fourth grade? Should YMCA coaches be the ones making the big bucks since they are the ones coaching players at the age when they can actually improve?

You know what is hilarious...Shead's best year after 4 years of Sampson is very similar to EH's one year with PM

 

[TINY]

As for Goldwire, he got worse in about 90 percent of statistics. Of course his scoring went up -- he went from playing with a bunch of high-end talent to playing on a team that relied heavily on Tanner Groves. You realize that his offensive rating (which, as I already noted, got worse at OU) takes into account his scoring average, right? And even with that big increase in scoring, he was actually a worse offensive player.

Saying he got worse in 90% of stats is completely false. Even in the categories he was “worse” it was by a few tenths in a lot of cases. 5-10 more assists or rebounds over the course of a season is pretty insignificant. Doubling your point total in a tougher league while shooting at a better percentage is a massive improvement though.

 

[NorthCarolinaSooner]

The "development" aspect is overblown. These guys work with trainers for years before and during college.

Most of what you guys consider "development" is just a change in scheme and usage. A guy doesn't go from one program to another and magically get "developed" in 5-6 months.

You're just using stats for argument sake and disguising them as "development".

Do they work on their game? Yes
Are they drastically reworking it and becoming better? No.....its just marginal improvements on skill.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Saying he got worse in 90% of stats is completely false. Even in the categories he was “worse” it was by a few tenths in a lot of cases. 5-10 more assists or rebounds over the course of a season is pretty insignificant. Doubling your point total in a tougher league while shooting at a better percentage is a massive improvement though.

Offensive rebounds, defensive rebounds, total rebounds, assists, steals, turnovers, 3-pt shooting all got worse, despite playing more minutes.

 

[WichitaSooner]

The "development" aspect is overblown. These guys work with trainers for years before and during college.

Most of what you guys consider "development" is just a change in scheme and usage. A guy doesn't go from one program to another and magically get "developed" in 5-6 months.

You're just using stats for argument sake and disguising them as "development".

Do they work on their game? Yes
Are they drastically reworking it and becoming better? No.....its just marginal improvements on skill.

How do guys who stay for three or four years at KU seem to always get drastically better? Guys who came in with little fanfare like Mason and Graham become All Americans. I was laughed off the board last summer by tons of posters when I put stock in what he said about how McCullar would make a huge leap offensively, specially with his shooting. There are plenty of other teams where similar things happen … guys play ok early in their career, but their skills improve and when they get a chance to play more or take on added responsibilities later in their career, they are ready for it and thrive. Houston is a great example of this. Gonzaga is another. It’s not just blue bloods and elite programs, either. It’s fairly common to hear about guys making “the leap” from one year to the next. So yes, I’d say those guys are developing.