#21 OU @ #12 Baylor 8pm CST on ESPN2

[WichitaSooner]

Yes, and we've also been outscored in all of our losses. Thanks for the insight! What a crazy concept that when we lose, our opponents have better numbers.

On the flip side, we've outscored our opponents in all of our wins. We're giving up only 62 per game in our conference wins.

Houston is giving up under 68 pts in their losses. Baylor, who people on this board have faded for their defense all season, is allowing 69 in their three regular season regulation league losses. Iowa State has allowed more than 73 once all season. So I would say that really good defenses can play good defense more than half their games, even when they lose.

 

[skyvue]

If anyone is looking to get rid of the bad taste left by the loss to Baylor, watch Wednesday night's Sooner women's game against Baylor. It was a hardfought and very exciting victory--their ninth in a row--with some sequences that were downright thrilling. I didn't get to watch it live, so I knew OU had won when I started watching, but I was hooting and hollering and clapping as if I were watching it live. Just a great game.

 

[Eielson]

Houston is giving up under 68 pts in their losses. Baylor, who people on this board have faded for their defense all season, is allowing 69 in their three regular season regulation league losses. Iowa State has allowed more than 73 once all season. So I would say that really good defenses can play good defense more than half their games, even when they lose.

Again, this is a truly pathetic attempt at cherry-picking. Like I said, if you're going to pick a team's worst games of the seasons, their numbers are going to look worse. That's common sense. If their defensive numbers look okay, as is the case with Houston, then that means their offensive numbers are bad. Otherwise they wouldn't have lost.

Your Baylor take is even more pathetic. I just checked and in the games they've lost this year, they gave up 88, 78, 68, 75, 105, and 64. This rounds to 80 points a game. Apparently you only want to count their three best defensive performances in losses, but unfortunately that's now how the world works. I can understand excluding OT scores, but that's still 75 points. At least try to use real numbers.

 

[TEvans4Three]

Again, this is a truly pathetic attempt at cherry-picking. Like I said, if you're going to pick a team's worst games of the seasons, their numbers are going to look worse. That's common sense. If their defensive numbers look okay, as is the case with Houston, then that means their offensive numbers are bad. Otherwise they wouldn't have lost.

Your Baylor take is even more pathetic. I just checked and in the games they've lost this year, they gave up 88, 78, 68, 75, 105, and 64. This rounds to 80 points a game. Apparently you only want to count their three best defensive performances in losses, but unfortunately that's now how the world works. I can understand excluding OT scores, but that's still 75 points. At least try to use real numbers.

Agree, you cannot cherry-pick data to prove your point. Show one, show all.

Baylor's regular season REGULATION losses is the most misleading thing you could ever cite. You just don't think OT games count? Come on man.

KSU - 68
Texas - 75
TCU - 105* (we see why you left this one out)
KU - 64

That averages out to 78 ppg in losses.

Include all their losses, 79.6. Again, you were just trying to shave off those 1.6 points...to prove a point? So silly.

OU's ppg in their conference regular season losses: 78.5 ppg. 78.85 if you count all 7 losses.

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Here is a weird twist on losses (dismissing the margin of error):

Average rank of Baylor's losses: 29.17
Average rank of Oklahoma's losses: 26.71

Both per KenPom Rank. Not that it means anything, but a silly look at data.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Agree, you cannot cherry-pick data to prove your point. Show one, show all.

Baylor's regular season REGULATION losses is the most misleading thing you could ever cite. You just don't think OT games count? Come on man.

KSU - 68
Texas - 75
TCU - 105* (we see why you left this one out)
KU - 64

That averages out to 78 ppg in losses.

Include all their losses, 79.6. Again, you were just trying to shave off those 1.6 points...to prove a point? So silly.

OU's ppg in their conference regular season losses: 78.5 ppg. 78.85 if you count all 7 losses.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is a weird twist on losses (dismissing the margin of error):

Average rank of Baylor's losses: 29.17
Average rank of Oklahoma's losses: 26.71

Both per KenPom Rank. Not that it means anything, but a silly look at data.

That game went to 3 overtimes. They allowed 76 in regulation. Counting the points they gave up in 15 extra minutes of play increases their average by more than 7 pts per game. How is it cherry picking to not count those points? I mean, there is a reason reputable analytic sites calculate stats on a per possession basis.

The purpose of the discussion is to see whether we have been playing consistently good defense in league play. Comparing us to our peers in the same category seems like a directly relevant comparison. Points per minute or, even better, per possession is the best gauge.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

i don't get including the OT portion of the game

 

[TEvans4Three]

That game went to 3 overtimes. They allowed 76 in regulation. Counting the points they gave up in 15 extra minutes of play increases their average by more than 7 pts per game. How is it cherry picking to not count those points? I mean, there is a reason reputable analytic sites calculate stats on a per possession basis.

The purpose of the discussion is to see whether we have been playing consistently good defense in league play. Comparing us to our peers in the same category seems like a directly relevant comparison. Points per minute or, even better, per possession is the best gauge.

Then let's do that properly, shall we?



Oklahoma's last 10 games:


Baylor's last 10 games:


You have to look beyond the score. It goes into shooting %, rebound %, everything. So more holistically, let's break it down.

Again, I am going to include the outliers for both, so it will skew that data slightly.

OU - Offense (102.84), Defense (105.7), (5-5)
BU - Offense (112.3), Defense (105.08), (6-4)

Lower number is better for defense, higher for offense.

Those are the overall view over the last 10 games via efficiencies. If we omit the last game they played against eachother, it looks like this:

OU - Offense (103.00), Defense (101.48), (5-5)
BU - Offense (108.82), Defense (105.48), (6-4)

OU, has been a much better team in conference play. Our offense has been our downfall. I can look at losses alone if you like.

Evan Miya for Data Ref

Edit to add: If you want to use reputable sources that use PPP...then do that, don't just omit games just bc.

 

[BoulderSooner]

Houston is giving up under 68 pts in their losses. Baylor, who people on this board have faded for their defense all season, is allowing 69 in their three regular season regulation league losses. Iowa State has allowed more than 73 once all season. So I would say that really good defenses can play good defense more than half their games, even when they lose.

3 top 10 teams are better then OU wow .. that is amazing

 

[Eielson]

That game went to 3 overtimes. They allowed 76 in regulation. Counting the points they gave up in 15 extra minutes of play increases their average by more than 7 pts per game. How is it cherry picking to not count those points? I mean, there is a reason reputable analytic sites calculate stats on a per possession basis.

The purpose of the discussion is to see whether we have been playing consistently good defense in league play. Comparing us to our peers in the same category seems like a directly relevant comparison. Points per minute or, even better, per possession is the best gauge.

Like I said, Baylor has lost six games. You arbitrarily cherry-picked 3 games to exclude the other three where they gave up an average of 90 points per game. I understand if you want to exclude OT points, but it's silly to throw out the entire game.

Picking 3 games out of a team's 24 to prove a point is silly at best.

 

[TEvans4Three]

3 top 10 teams are better then OU wow .. that is amazing

Houston is the best rated defense in the nation as well.

Here is a breakdown of KenPom/EvanMiya/Massey/Barttorvik on each team's efficiencies and I added an average of all the sites at the end.

Team

KP Rank

BPR

Movr

BarOvr

KPOff

OBPR

Moff

BarOff

KPDef

DBPR

Mdef

BarDef

OVR AVG

OVR OFF

OVR DEF

Houston

1​

4​

3​

1​

16​

28​

62​

16​

1​

1​

1​

1​

2.3​

30.5​

1.0​

Iowa St.

9​

12​

12​

6​

45​

40​

59​

36​

3​

3​

8​

2​

9.8​

45.0​

4.0​

Baylor

13​

17​

11​

16​

5​

4​

8​

6​

66​

79​

44​

80​

14.3​

5.8​

67.3​

Texas Tech

22​

22​

17​

24​

12​

15​

36​

11​

67​

63​

28​

75​

21.3​

18.5​

58.3​

Kansas

19​

14​

6​

12​

44​

21​

19​

25​

17​

12​

21​

16​

12.8​

27.3​

16.5​

BYU

14​

18​

18​

9​

8​

14​

17​

8​

31​

36​

56​

27​

14.8​

11.8​

37.5​

TCU

33​

31​

27​

35​

28​

32​

22​

28​

51​

38​

64​

66​

31.5​

27.5​

54.8​

Oklahoma

31​

34​

19​

34​

55​

54​

63​

64​

22​

25​

22​

24​

29.5​

59.0​

23.3​

Texas

25​

21​

24​

21​

18​

27​

33​

15​

54​

26​

25​

46​

22.8​

23.3​

37.8​

Kansas St.

71​

66​

49​

71​

161​

143​

74​

163​

20​

20​

36​

19​

64.3​

135.3​

23.8​

Cincinnati

36​

36​

50​

42​

77​

76​

55​

92​

19​

21​

37​

20​

41.0​

75.0​

24.3​

UCF

65​

63​

73​

60​

165​

171​

143​

179​

11​

7​

19​

7​

65.3​

164.5​

11.0​

West Virginia

143​

139​

112​

144​

189​

151​

87​

178​

124​

149​

85​

126​

134.5​

151.3​

121.0​

Oklahoma St.

119​

118​

102​

111​

172​

157​

118​

169​

84​

80​

38​

72​

112.5​

154.0​

68.5​

OU is 8th in Offense and 5th in Defense.

 

[WichitaSooner]

3 top 10 teams are better then OU wow .. that is amazing

Again, that isn’t the debate. This whole thing started because someone claimed the OP was wrong in saying our defense has declined relative to early in the season.

And I fully agree that defense isn’t our main concern. Our offense is easily the biggest culprit. But the defense also has tailed off a bit and isn’t the strength some have suggested. We are elite at defending the three, no question. But we don’t turn teams over at all, which really hurts us since our halfcourt offense is rough. We could really use more open court opportunities.

 

[TEvans4Three]

And I fully agree that defense isn’t our main concern. Our offense is easily the biggest culprit. But the defense also has tailed off a bit and isn’t the strength some have suggested. We are elite at defending the three, no question. But we don’t turn teams over at all, which really hurts us since our halfcourt offense is rough. We could really use more open court opportunities.

This is almost spot on.

I think the disagreement comes where you say we have tailed off a bit. But at the same time we had 2 of our best defensive performances against a Top15 team in BYU and @KSU. Excluding the Baylor game, which was bad, we had 3 games with solid defensive numbers and 3 out of the last 4 games with sub-70 scores.

Again, all to be taken with the context that OSU, KSU are not good on offense, and BYU is where we are truly hanging our hat there.

We are rated top-25 in defense at almost every analytical site. I don't think we were ever a top-10, so the tail off may just be subjective and based on watching the games/frustrations. Which are understood.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Again, that isn’t the debate. This whole thing started because someone claimed the OP was wrong in saying our defense has declined relative to early in the season.

Wrong again. That isn't what the OP claimed.