About all this questioning substitution patterns and such

[coolm]

Same logic racists use.

we're not talking about an immutable trait so your tainted comparison is completely apples to oranges.

WE are talking about some piss poor fans who CHOOSE to be constant debbie downers. THEIR discussion deals with bad attitudes over an issue with which one has NO control. You choose to be a poor fan. They dont choose to be any particular race.

now L2Fan

 

[chuckb]

Same logic racists use.

Care to explain?

It seems as if you're trying to do to me the exact thing that I commented on so I'll say this as calmly as I can. If I am bothered by your ridiculous ad hominem comparing me to (and possibly suggesting that I am) a racist, that's on me. Your clearly personal attack says everything about you, and nothing about me. If I get upset about it, that's on me. I can't control what you say or do. The only thing I can control is how I react to it. Thus, if I feel "trolled" by any comment you or any other poster make, that's on me.

If you feel that somehow makes me a racist or justifies racism, not only is that a bizarre and ridiculous suggestion, but I'm not going to take your bait. The only thing in life we control is ourselves. There are those here who annoy me. I've chosen to put them on my ignore list. Perhaps you or hoopsaustin or say one else who feels "trolled" by coolm or me or anyone else should do the same. Or, alteratively, you could just choose not to be annoyed by comments made by coolm or any other poster. If you feel you're unable to control that, I believe you're wrong. Your reaction or how you are affected by comments made by ANYONE EVER are your own. And you can control them. You cannot control what anyone else will say.

Maybe you don't believe that, but it's true. I've spent some time both in individual and group therapy and that belief was my greatest takeaway. Too often I've taken other people's comments or actions personally and it's only served to make me feel worse. There's no question that my life is better and I am a better person knowing that I, and no one else, controls how I react to what others say.

So if you think that somehow makes me a racist or that I am somehow rationalize racism, enjoy that belief. But I'd suggest you work on some logic puzzles or something to improve your ability to think and develop coherent arguments.

 

[stormspencer]

Wow.....this thread has evolved into a cathartic "airing of grievances".....sorta like "Festivus" from Seinfeld.

 

[TheGimper]

we're not talking about an immutable trait so your tainted comparison is completely apples to oranges.

WE are talking about some piss poor fans who CHOOSE to be constant debbie downers. THEIR discussion deals with bad attitudes over an issue with which one has NO control. You choose to be a poor fan. They dont choose to be any particular race.

now L2Fan

Eh, I was being hyperbolic if anything. But it's ignorant to tell people not be bothered by the words of others. Words have power, can be impactful, damaging, etc. That can be applied to something as large as diminutive language towards anyone who wasn't born into privledge and it can be applied to something as small as a message board for the second class sport at the University of Oklahoma.

It's not as simple as people choosing to be bothered by something. It's an instinctual reaction and telling someone to ignore it doesn't solve the problem.

 

[TheGimper]

Care to explain?

It seems as if you're trying to do to me the exact thing that I commented on so I'll say this as calmly as I can. If I am bothered by your ridiculous ad hominem comparing me to (and possibly suggesting that I am) a racist, that's on me. Your clearly personal attack says everything about you, and nothing about me. If I get upset about it, that's on me. I can't control what you say or do. The only thing I can control is how I react to it. Thus, if I feel "trolled" by any comment you or any other poster make, that's on me.

If you feel that somehow makes me a racist or justifies racism, not only is that a bizarre and ridiculous suggestion, but I'm not going to take your bait. The only thing in life we control is ourselves. There are those here who annoy me. I've chosen to put them on my ignore list. Perhaps you or hoopsaustin or say one else who feels "trolled" by coolm or me or anyone else should do the same. Or, alteratively, you could just choose not to be annoyed by comments made by coolm or any other poster. If you feel you're unable to control that, I believe you're wrong. Your reaction or how you are affected by comments made by ANYONE EVER are your own. And you can control them. You cannot control what anyone else will say.

Maybe you don't believe that, but it's true. I've spent some time both in individual and group therapy and that belief was my greatest takeaway. Too often I've taken other people's comments or actions personally and it's only served to make me feel worse. There's no question that my life is better and I am a better person knowing that I, and no one else, controls how I react to what others say.

So if you think that somehow makes me a racist or that I am somehow rationalize racism, enjoy that belief. But I'd suggest you work on some logic puzzles or something to improve your ability to think and develop coherent arguments.

To clear the air, I was never trying to infer that you are racist in anyway. I was merely pointing out that it's flawed logic like I detailed in my previous post. Sorry if it caused you any duress.

 

[coolm]

I dont care if I annoy you. So whatever you're trying to accomplish is essentially moot. I speak up because you and your ilk annoy me and I will be the squeaky wheel until you learn to be a more gentler, kinder soul or I decide to stop paying any attention to it. But I like verbal confrontation because it lets me sow my oats so I squeak up instead of mousing myself away. You can either accept the challenge or buckle under my extreme ideological pressure. That choice is yours.

 

[WaymanFan]

I personally think that is a terrible way to run OU's basketball program. We should be better than that. We have been better than that with past coaches.

But it's LK's MO. Go back and look at the other teams he coached. Almost always a massive fall off after the first really good season.

WT, I'm not any happier than you the way this season played out. I particularly hated seeing the same mistakes in February that were being made in November. That said, you've mentioned Coach Kruger's pattern / MO on other threads as well as this, but it has been broken. Yes, in the past, Coach Kruger teams would generally peak by Year 3 and then taper off. At OU, his teams got better with each of his first 5 seasons. Also, he had never been to the Sweet 16 more than once at any school...until he came to Norman. He's also been in Norman longer than any other school save UNLV. He'll retire at the school which provided him with a higher recruiting budget than anywhere else he has coached. The pattern / MO was broken. One bad season does not change that.

Each of our last 5 head coaches have had one (and only one) bad coaching season. A bad coaching season to me has less to do with the team's record itself, but more to do with the record vs. expectations for that team. Since Coach has his bad season out of the way (like Bliss in '80, Tubbs in '93, Sampson in '06 and Capel in '10), I'm expecting things to be back to normal next year.

 

[TheGimper]

I dont care if I annoy you. So whatever you're trying to accomplish is essentially moot. I speak up because you and your ilk annoy me and I will be the squeaky wheel until you learn to be a more gentler, kinder soul or I decide to stop paying any attention to it. But I like verbal confrontation because it lets me sow my oats so I squeak up instead of mousing myself away. You can either accept the challenge or buckle under my extreme ideological pressure. That choice is yours.

Just curious, what do you assume is my ilk? I'm generally not one of the negative posters, so I wonder what box you've put me in?

 

[coolm]

Since Coach has his bad season out of the way (like Bliss in '80, Tubbs in '93, Sampson in '06 and Capel in '10), I'm expecting things to be back to normal next year.

I wouldnt mind at all if it was cyclical. Every few years we have a down year as we get a new core to grow up with.

Why are you people so offended by that?

 

[coolm]

Just curious, what do you assume is my ilk? I'm generally not one of the negative posters, so I wonder what box you've put me in?

you guys take it all as personal grouping or something. it's a venn diagram labeled "people being negative". so whoever is being negative.
if that wasn't you then thats not you. I dont pay much attention to the names ... just the vibe. I am here to enjoy myself and some of these people harsh my mellow.

 

[chuckb]

To clear the air, I was never trying to infer that you are racist in anyway. I was merely pointing out that it's flawed logic like I detailed in my previous post. Sorry if it caused you any duress.

That's the point. It didn't. And the flawed logic was yours. If you feel angry, annoyed, trolled, whatever...those feelings are yours. Own them. Nobody made you that way.

 

[OUReality]

I posted on the TCU game thread a comment complimenting Coach Kruger for keeping this young team focused and playing hard during such a dismal season. To keep 19-21-year-olds playing hard with nothing on the line is almost miraculous.

I also commented that Lon's substitution pattern was confusing. While I agree that Lon has been experimenting to see what combination of players work well together and looking forward to the future, those excuses still fall short of explaining the inconsistency of minutes for guys like Buford, Freeman, & Shepherd during league play. I think Lon is a great coach & OU is fortunate to have him, that doesn't mean he is infallible and it doesn't mean that when someone questions him they are less of a basketball expert or loyal fan.

 

[SoonerinNC]

Those who spew out constant criticism seem to be very bothered when criticized. A familiar pattern.

 

[WTSooner]

WT, I'm not any happier than you the way this season played out. I particularly hated seeing the same mistakes in February that were being made in November. That said, you've mentioned Coach Kruger's pattern / MO on other threads as well as this, but it has been broken. Yes, in the past, Coach Kruger teams would generally peak by Year 3 and then taper off. At OU, his teams got better with each of his first 5 seasons. Also, he had never been to the Sweet 16 more than once at any school...until he came to Norman. He's also been in Norman longer than any other school save UNLV. He'll retire at the school which provided him with a higher recruiting budget than anywhere else he has coached. The pattern / MO was broken. One bad season does not change that.

Each of our last 5 head coaches have had one (and only one) bad coaching season. A bad coaching season to me has less to do with the team's record itself, but more to do with the record vs. expectations for that team. Since Coach has his bad season out of the way (like Bliss in '80, Tubbs in '93, Sampson in '06 and Capel in '10), I'm expecting things to be back to normal next year.

WAY too early to make that statement, IMO.

Yes, he has done some things at OU that he hasn't done elsewhere. But he has also been at OU longer. I hope this is the ONE year we miss the Dance under LK. I really do. But if he misses again in 3-4 years, it'll be the same old song. I hope this is his one bad year. But Kelvin and Billy were both around a pretty long time to only have those 1 bad years (seems like Billy might have had more than just the one, but I don't know for sure off the top of my head).

So again, we'll see. LK was hired to do one thing at OU, and he's done that really well. But he has his short comings. Always has. Likely always will. Will be interesting to see what the next several seasons brings.

 

[WTSooner]

I wouldnt mind at all if it was cyclical. Every few years we have a down year as we get a new core to grow up with.

Why are you people so offended by that?

Because most of us want better for OU basketball.

Can't stand people like you that talk out of both sides of their mouth. You can't have it both ways. You can't talk about what you want and hope for OU basketball, then ask why OU fans aren't "okay with" missing the Dance every 4 years.

 

[WaymanFan]

WAY too early to make that statement, IMO.

Yes, he has done some things at OU that he hasn't done elsewhere. But he has also been at OU longer. I hope this is the ONE year we miss the Dance under LK. I really do. But if he misses again in 3-4 years, it'll be the same old song. I hope this is his one bad year. But Kelvin and Billy were both around a pretty long time to only have those 1 bad years (seems like Billy might have had more than just the one, but I don't know for sure off the top of my head).

So again, we'll see. LK was hired to do one thing at OU, and he's done that really well. But he has his short comings. Always has. Likely always will. Will be interesting to see what the next several seasons brings.

If we have occasional deep runs in the Tourney, I can live with not making the Dance one out of every four years...heck, we've only made it 6 out of the last 11 counting this year. Yes, I realize both Billy and Kelvin made it to 9 straight, but I'm not sure that's realistic any longer for non blue bloods. Plus, Billy started a JUCO connection which Kelvin was smart enough to stay with. OU was THE school to go to if you were a JUCO star. JUCO talent is now an oxymoron.

For the record, Billy only had one bad year based on his talent. His first team went 9-18, but they had far less talent than the current OU team. He also barely squeaked into the NIT with his last team, but that was his worst team since his first year. He was obviously burned out at OU. The worst coaching year of the previous four coaches was either the last year they were there or the second-to-last. Hopefully, that will be another trend that is broken by Coach Kruger.

 

[Big Old Booger]

If we have occasional deep runs in the Tourney, I can live with not making the Dance one out of every four years...heck, we've only made it 6 out of the last 11 counting this year. Yes, I realize both Billy and Kelvin made it to 9 straight, but I'm not sure that's realistic any longer for non blue bloods. Plus, Billy started a JUCO connection which Kelvin was smart enough to stay with. OU was THE school to go to if you were a JUCO star. JUCO talent is now an oxymoron.

For the record, Billy only had one bad year based on his talent. His first team went 9-18, but they had far less talent than the current OU team. He also barely squeaked into the NIT with his last team, but that was his worst team since his first year. He was obviously burned out at OU. The worst coaching year of the previous four coaches was either the last year they were there or the second-to-last. Hopefully, that will be another trend that is broken by Coach Kruger.

I believe Sampson's worst year was his 3rd year to the last, which was 04 after the Final 4 with a young team. 05 and 06 were big disappointments though. 04 was disappointing but it was immediately after a final 4 and elite 8 and probably the best 3-4 year run of Sampson's tenure. Then 04 came about with a young team but most of those guys never panned out due to grades or just being knuckleheads. So, 05 was a decent year but ended disappointingly with an early loss in the Big 12 tournament to Texas Tech and then a 2nd round loss in the dance to Utah. 06 was a 1 and done in both the Big 12 and Dance. Everyone saw both of them coming.

So, if Lon takes this young team to the dance next year -- say a sweet 16 -- he will buck a trend by both the previous 2 OU coaches which is taking a young team and forming them into a good tournament team. Neither Sampson or the other coach were capable of that.

 

[coolm]

Because most of us want better for OU basketball.

Can't stand people like you that talk out of both sides of their mouth. You can't have it both ways. You can't talk about what you want and hope for OU basketball, then ask why OU fans aren't "okay with" missing the Dance every 4 years.

so you ADMIT that what you're striving for is an ideological goal.

a "dream" of yours.

and you consistently bash this coach and program for not meeting your dream.

I choose to find happiness in the now. My view has been on this Earth as a discipline for almost 3,000 years. More people on this planet believe as I do than you. So if my views make you sick then I suggest your own standard is askew.

And I can't stand people who lack the vision to see past the end of their own nose. grow up.

Oh, and dont challenge me to debate. I do this for a living and I am way out of your league.

 

[Sooner04]

I believe going 11-19 sucks.

I hope we're better next year.

 

[hoopsaustin]

so you ADMIT that what you're striving for is an ideological goal.

a "dream" of yours.

and you consistently bash this coach and program for not meeting your dream.

I choose to find happiness in the now. My view has been on this Earth as a discipline for almost 3,000 years. More people on this planet believe as I do than you. So if my views make you sick then I suggest your own standard is askew.

And I can't stand people who lack the vision to see past the end of their own nose. grow up.

Oh, and dont challenge me to debate. I do this for a living and I am way out of your league.

:ez-roll: derp