Attendance today - factor?

[WTSooner]

I have heard Bailey Ranch in Owasso, Meadowbrook CC in Tulsa, and a few others are operating in the red as well.

Unless something has changed, I thought I heard that Meadowbrook has already announced they are closing at some point and selling so the property can't be turned into houses.

 

[thebigabd]

Unless something has changed, I thought I heard that Meadowbrook has already announced they are closing at some point and selling so the property can't be turned into houses.

It is up in the air... they announced plans to sell it and is not profitable, last I heard.

Here is the official list... this all happened within a few years.

• Whitehawk in Bixby.... closed
• Clary Fields in Sapulpa.... closed
• Emerald Falls in Broken Arrow.... closed
• Scissortail in Claremore..... closed
• Okmulgee Country Club... closed
• Cotton Creek in Glenpool.... closed
• Meadowbrook CC in Tulsa... closing down

 

[sheepdogs1]

Unless something has changed, I thought I heard that Meadowbrook has already announced they are closing at some point and selling so the property can't be turned into houses.

It is a done deal and a sad one at that for members got a bang for their buck. With respect to golf, the golf swing is something which takes most players years to groove and the youth of today are not willing to put forth the effort to master the game. I blame the participation trophy crowd for drilling it into the head of young people that things are given as opposed to earned. This pot mark started close to 20 years ago and golf has
been in decline for practically all of that span.

 

[AdaSooner]

I haven't seen any posters deny that other schools have issues with attendance. My personal feeling is that just because other schools have bad fans/attendance issues, doesn't mean that fans on an OU message board aren't entitled to point out how disheartening it is to see our arena half empty and as quiet as a library for a lot of games.

Poor attendance at OU basketball games has been a topic of discussion on this board for more than a decade. I’m shocked you haven’t seen any posts that say or imply OU has attendance problems other schools don’t have to deal with. Must be nice to have a selective memory to fit any occasion.

I have never said OU fans don’t have a right to complain about empty seats in the LNC. I have been part of those discussions over the years. Declining attendance is real. The point I was trying to make is that we’re not alone in those concerns. Sorry I failed in my attempt to be clear about where I was coming from.

 

[thebigabd]

It is a done deal and a sad one at that for members got a bang for their buck. With respect to golf, the golf swing is something which takes most players years to groove and the youth of today are not willing to put forth the effort to master the game. I blame the participation trophy crowd for drilling it into the head of young people that things are given as opposed to earned. This pot mark started close to 20 years ago and golf had been in decline for practically all of that span.

Hmmmm, interesting take on that.

I agree with you about the golf swing, and maybe the youth in this country aren't willing to invest in it. But all these area courses don't shut down because of that... People don't have the money to spend $45 regularly to play, plain and simple. The only courses surviving are the ones that live on tax dollars.

The owner at Whitehawk said he needed 30,000 rounds to stay afloat and he got 13,000 rounds... When you factor in ancillary costs its $50+ to play golf at regular municipal courses. People don't have it.

There are lots of factors, but I still think the bottom line is people don't have the money to play.

 

[sheepdogs1]

Hmmmm, interesting take on that.

I agree with you about the golf swing, and maybe the youth in this country aren't willing to invest in it. But all these area courses don't shut down because of that... People don't have the money to spend $45 regularly to play, plain and simple. The only courses surviving are the ones that live on tax dollars.

The owner at Whitehawk said he needed 30,000 rounds to stay afloat and he got 13,000 rounds... When you factor in ancillary costs its $50+ to play golf at regular municipal courses. People don't have it.

There are lots of factors, but I still think the bottom line is people don't have the money to play.

Anything is possible except for "Nanook of the North," but the struggling courses lowered their rates to a fraction to increase patrons but the number of rounds still dropped. Another obvious factor are $500 drivers, $200 putters and so on.

 

[thebigabd]

Anything is possible except for "Nanook of the North," but the struggling courses lowered their rates to a fraction to increase patrons but the number of rounds still dropped. Another obvious factor are $500 drivers, $200 putters and so on.

Agree.... I started to write something up on the equipment industry. Hell, a 12 pack of Titleist or Srixon golf balls is $45. Most amateur players probably lose half that every round. Of course, you can buy cheaper balls at probably $15 per box.

Between green fees, food/beverage, equipment, balls, practice, etc... its an expensive hobby for sure.

Also, the rounds dropping despite a price decrease still tells me its economic distress... When you are spending up to 25% of your income on health insurance, paying off student loans, have a car payment of $350 per month, bills, mortgage/rent, etc golf just ranks WAY down the radar. So does OU basketball, especially when you can watch on TV. Thats the whole point.

Young people especially just don't have the means to play golf, and probably don't have the means to go watch OU basketball.

 

[Darwin]

If 5000 people attend a game in a multipurpose 10,000 seat arena, it's unlikely that the atmosphere with be thick with excitement. If that 10k arena is designed for basketball and the 5000 attendees are in the 6000 seats closest to the floor, that same 5k will be a "factor".

..Many points can be made about why this won't happen but if the AD focused on the programs future presentation on TV and the product that encourages people to attend and support, the AD would have this very high on the wish list.

 

[WTSooner]

Agree.... I started to write something up on the equipment industry. Hell, a 12 pack of Titleist or Srixon golf balls is $45. Most amateur players probably lose half that every round. Of course, you can buy cheaper balls at probably $15 per box.

Between green fees, food/beverage, equipment, balls, practice, etc... its an expensive hobby for sure.

Also, the rounds dropping despite a price decrease still tells me its economic distress... When you are spending up to 25% of your income on health insurance, paying off student loans, have a car payment of $350 per month, bills, mortgage/rent, etc golf just ranks WAY down the radar. So does OU basketball, especially when you can watch on TV. Thats the whole point.

Young people especially just don't have the means to play golf, and probably don't have the means to go watch OU basketball.

All good points. Golf is certainly not cheap. You mentioned a bunch of other entertainment options vying for those dollars, plus everybody today thinks they need a new(er) car, a new iPhone every year, and a list of other items that used to be wants, but are now considered needs.

The other problem golf has is how long it takes to play a round, especially on a Saturday. Factoring in drive time, a round of golf can pretty easily take 5-6 hours. That is nearly a full work day.

I love golf. Wish I got the chance to play more. The game has a lot of issues, many we've touched on. I think some of it is cyclical too. Seems like golf just isn't as big right now. Maybe b/c Tiger was away and is now just an average pro. Who knows.

 

[thebigabd]

All good points. Golf is certainly not cheap. You mentioned a bunch of other entertainment options vying for those dollars, plus everybody today thinks they need a new(er) car, a new iPhone every year, and a list of other items that used to be wants, but are now considered needs.

The other problem golf has is how long it takes to play a round, especially on a Saturday. Factoring in drive time, a round of golf can pretty easily take 5-6 hours. That is nearly a full work day.

I love golf. Wish I got the chance to play more. The game has a lot of issues, many we've touched on. I think some of it is cyclical too. Seems like golf just isn't as big right now. Maybe b/c Tiger was away and is now just an average pro. Who knows.

Agree in full.

And every one of those things you mentioned, and more, cause OU basketball (or golf, etc) to drop down the list and "just watch it on TV". Then young people don't have a tradition of taking their kids to basketball games, their kids grow up not interested or less interested, and the cycle continues.

As for your comment about golf, pace of play is a gigantic problem. I play golf very regularly, and nothing pisses me off more than pace of play. I have a rule now..... I am either going to be the first person on that course, or the last... If I am not the first person to tee off or the last person, I won't play. Period.

It is the only way I can guarantee to play at my pace and not spend the whole day waiting.

 

[soonertravis]

Another issue for golf is that if I don't have the time to dedicate to a round I will go to Flying T in Jenks. They serve me food and drinks and it is climate controlled.

Like with OU basketball, I have to prioritize activities. Kids activities, other entertainment options(Thunder), etc. all factor in. And as others have pointed out it is not just OU. It is almost every basketball program in the country, even the "basketball school" in our state to the north. With that said, people will come watch a winner, especially if there is a buzz. We had 10,000 people watch the Women's Gymnastics team. There is a spot, but it is much more competitive than it was 10, 20 or 30 years ago.

We have to stop worrying about it. We have been competitive over the last several years and are recruiting at a solid level. Let's see what this next group does and then we can see if large attendance is necessary to have a successful program or if attendance responds once there is more excitement around the program.

 

[BoulderSooner]

Hmmmm, interesting take on that.

I agree with you about the golf swing, and maybe the youth in this country aren't willing to invest in it. But all these area courses don't shut down because of that... People don't have the money to spend $45 regularly to play, plain and simple. The only courses surviving are the ones that live on tax dollars.

The owner at Whitehawk said he needed 30,000 rounds to stay afloat and he got 13,000 rounds... When you factor in ancillary costs its $50+ to play golf at regular municipal courses. People don't have it.

There are lots of factors, but I still think the bottom line is people don't have the money to play.

or golf courses were massivly overbuilt nation wide over a period of about 30 years

 

[sheepdogs1]

Agree in full.

And every one of those things you mentioned, and more, cause OU basketball (or golf, etc) to drop down the list and "just watch it on TV". Then young people don't have a tradition of taking their kids to basketball games, their kids grow up not interested or less interested, and the cycle continues.

As for your comment about golf, pace of play is a gigantic problem. I play golf very regularly, and nothing pisses me off more than pace of play. I have a rule now..... I am either going to be the first person on that course, or the last... If I am not the first person to tee off or the last person, I won't play. Period.

It is the only way I can guarantee to play at my pace and not spend the whole day waiting.

Or tee off the back nine to avoid slow play.

 

[WTSooner]

As for your comment about golf, pace of play is a gigantic problem. I play golf very regularly, and nothing pisses me off more than pace of play. I have a rule now..... I am either going to be the first person on that course, or the last... If I am not the first person to tee off or the last person, I won't play. Period.

Where do you play most often?

 

[thebigabd]

Where do you play most often?

Bailey Ranch in Owasso and Battle Creek in Broken Arrow. They have a membership deal that allows you to play unlimited golf at both courses, so I have had that for a few years.

I sprinkle in LaFortune, South Lakes, and Whitehawk occasionally.

You?

 

[WTSooner]

Bailey Ranch in Owasso and Battle Creek in Broken Arrow. They have a membership deal that allows you to play unlimited golf at both courses, so I have had that for a few years.

I sprinkle in LaFortune, South Lakes, and Whitehawk occasionally.

You?

I play out south and west mainly. Page. Sapulpa Muni. South Lakes. I played some at Clary Fields the two years or so before it closed, as I live very near there. Going to try to play LaFortune some this year.

 

[Eielson]

Poor attendance at OU basketball games has been a topic of discussion on this board for more than a decade. I’m shocked you haven’t seen any posts that say or imply OU has attendance problems other schools don’t have to deal with. Must be nice to have a selective memory to fit any occasion.

That selective memory even includes posts in the thread he's posting in.

 

[AdaSooner]

That selective memory even includes posts in the thread he's posting in.

I noticed that too.

 

[WichitaSooner]

I noticed that too.

I have never said OU fans don’t have a right to complain about empty seats in the LNC. I have been part of those discussions over the years. Declining attendance is real. The point I was trying to make is that we’re not alone in those concerns. Sorry I failed in my attempt to be clear about where I was coming from.[/QUOTE]

Find me examples of posts where credible posters said that no other schools have attendance problems. We have seen many people point out that we aren't alone in that department. We have seen people debate tickets sold versus butts in seats. We have seen discussions about golf and how "kids these days" don't have the patience to stick with things. I don't find a single post where anyone said that we are the only school dealing with the issue.

My point all along is that a lot of the schools that have attendance problems don't have anything close to our history of success. And the fact that Duke or some other elite programs might have a couple games where they don't fill 100% of seats isn't nearly the same thing that we face. I don't expect us to ever be KU or UK and fill the place for preseason scrimmages and exhibition games. I do think it is reasonable for the place to be nearly full, and loud, for the majority of conference games, at a minimum. And our attendance has been a problem far longer than just the past decade. People can complain all they want about our arena and the administration, but the bottom line is, for just about any game of any season, an OU fan can get in the building for about $10 and watch a top 25 quality program play teams in the best conference in America. I was just out of school and has started my first job in the fall of 2002. So, I decided to buy a season ticket. I was shocked that I was able to buy a seat on the eighth row, with little if any annual donation, for a team coming off a Final Four and with the core of the team back. I was even more shocked when I would show up for games that season and find that unless we were playing KU, OSU, Texas, and maybe one or two others, the place was a morgue. Again, this predates the Thunder, HDTV, and the days of every game being televised. I just don't get why so many people seem unwilling to call a spade a spade and admit that we haven't had a big, devoted fanbase for decades.

As far as selective memory, Eielson -- how many wins will it take for us to make the tourney as of now? Do we still need to finish 8-10, then win at least a game in KC? I'm not the one who changes my take day by day. You're also the same one who cuts off block quotes midway through to try to hide what a fool you are after calling out Ghost for responding to a specific question posed by another poster. Keep up the personal attacks, though, even though my comment on this thread had nothing to do with anything you posted.

 

[Eielson]

As far as selective memory, Eielson -- how many wins will it take for us to make the tourney as of now? Do we still need to finish 8-10, then win at least a game in KC? I'm not the one who changes my take day by day. You're also the same one who cuts off block quotes midway through to try to hide what a fool you are after calling out Ghost for responding to a specific question posed by another poster. Keep up the personal attacks, though, even though my comment on this thread had nothing to do with anything you posted.

There were no personal attacks until this post. And I'm not going to give you the satisfaction of addressing your made up claims.