Troubling Trend for Lon

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I really like Lon. Above all else he is a great guy and has been a great representative for the school and the program coming off a very embarrassing low point at the end of the Capel era. LK took over a program really in shambles. Five years later he was in the Final Four. So through his first five years in Norman I would say Lon did a great job. Not perfect of course, there have always been some game-day things that frustrate me, even with the F4 team, but big picture through five years Lon had done about as well as I think is reasonable for OU basketball. That team got better every year, earned a higher seed every year, and ended with a Sweet 16 and Final 4 in back to back years. The players also developed well under his tutelage and the teams were fun to watch and generally played hard and with good energy.

If you wanted to nit-pick maybe you give Lon an “A-“ through those first five years depending on how much you take off for the North Dakota State loss in the Tourney and/or generally not playing well in B12 Tourney. For me, I’m fine calling that five year stretch a solid “A.”

Since then, it’s been rough. I’ve defended Lon for two and a half years now based largely on the equity he built with me during that run. I was OK with a clunker season in 2017 after the Final Four team left. I figured they were due for a downturn and didn’t stress much about that season. However, it was a REALLY BAD season and part of me likes to think OU should never be that bad. But again, I chalked that up to a mulligan and didn’t lose sleep or faith over it. I told a few of my buddies who started grumbling after that season to chill out and have some perspective.

Then, along comes TY and last year and for six weeks it looks like we are going to be the biggest story in college hoops. I never thought we’d maintain that Top 5 pace or that TY would stay THAT hot, but I also did not foresee that absolute collapse that was to follow. I’m telling you, by the end of last year, that was one of the worst basketball teams I’ve ever seen— I say that only with some slight hyperbole. That wasn’t a “team” at all actually. It was a train wreck. I’ll admit I put most of the blame on TY for just not buying in or being the type of talent that could mesh with his athletically inferior teammates, but it obviously had to come back on Lon and staff as well. They had no answers at all as things just got worse and worse and worse. Yes, on paper I thought we earned our Dance bid, but we were absolutely NOT actually one of the 68 best teams in the field by that time. I’m pretty sure any team in the Top 150 would have taken us down. Rhode Island wasn’t really good and they didn’t even play all that well and they still beat us. Last year was a year that on paper was OK, but anyone with eyes knew something was very very wrong with that team from the midway point on. But still, I chalked it up to more of it being a bad fit with a five star guy and gave Lon another pass (although less of one than the year before).

Now, here were are... third season removed from the F4 and I think Lon is in a precarious spot. Now, I’m NOT saying I actually think his job is on the line. It’s not and it shouldn’t be because of the class coming in next year. It’s one of the highest rated classes in OU history and we have some talented returning players too— so no matter what, I want Lon coaching that team and would fear any change could run off the recruits.

But what is happening right now is very troubling to me. Again, on paper it’s OK. Had you told me before the year we’d be 15-6 at this point I would have taken that without question. But context matters. One very important thing for any team in any sport on any level is in-season improvement. Or at least avoiding in-season regression. Our non Con schedule doesn’t look nearly as tough as it did earlier, but we still clearly played well to start the season. Team was composed and played efficiently on both ends. I was impressed. It’s not a very talented group, but there is a little depth there and lots of experience. Looked like guys had found roles and players had confidence. I didn’t expect us to keep up that pace once B12 play started, but I was really confident that this was going to be a tough bunch and one that could at least go 9-9 in conf and wind up over-achieving on their Dance seed.

But what we’ve seen in conference play is not good. 3-5 isn’t good on its own, but if not for OSU (and both of those wins were ugly) we are sitting at 1-5. Most damning is that we’ve lost back to back home games (against decent but not great teams) in blowout fashion. We were totally non-competitive against KSU and Baylor. The Baylor game in particular was humiliating. Absolutely no answers anywhere on the floor. It felt like Baylor could have defended us 2 on 5 and we wouldn’t have scored. It was one of the worst games I’ve seen OU play at home since, well, ever. All of a sudden guys look lost and those defined roles from earlier in the year are all now scrambled and disheveled. A guy like Freeman for example who was contributing in December is now a total non-factor, or worse. Sure, competition goes up once conf play starts. But we see teams like Baylor and KSU doing the reverse of what we are doing. Their early season was meh, but they’ve gotten better and better. Even with our experience, we are going backwards.

I know this team has a ceiling. This was another transition-type year to bridge us to that big class next year. A Tourney appearance would be a good accomplishment. And frankly, an unexpected one for me based on my pre season thoughts. However, they earned the right for those expectations to change and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect far better than what they put on the floor so far in B12 play.

It’s not over yet by any means. The WVU game Saturday is merely the midway point in conf play. They could still turn it around quickly. Get to 5-5 and you are back on track. But right now it seems more likely they are headed towards 6-12 in conf than they are 9-9. And if they dip THAT low their Tourney dreams are probably going to be dashed. And considering where they started Jan that would be a real disappointment. More importantly, it would be a bad, bad look for LK. It would be the third straight year he winds up with a team not playing well at all come March. That is really troubling to me and doesn’t get me all warm and fuzzy heading into next year with the incoming class. I really need to see something over these next several weeks to ease my concerns. I’ve been a pretty loyal Lon fanboy and apologist, but I’ve begun to waver and need him to reel me back in a bit.
 
my concern is what looks like a complete lack of discipline.

I keep wanting to post something but I dont know if this isn't how they all coach these days. Maybe this carefree atmosphere is all the rage and I am a dinosaur. I just know that some of the effortless jogs and failures to get back in transition I have seen would have had me, my kids, and my players off the floor in a heartbeat back in the day. But I acknowledge that discipline in that manner might not be the new thing.

I see some other stuff too. But I'm not out to pick on anyone. I just expect kids to play hard. I know they have other stuff going on as well - but the very first component of their job is to play hard and I dont think we're always seeing that. We certainly didnt see it yesterday.
 
I have only seen lethargic play in a couple of home games with yesterday being the worse. I wonder whether the team has an attitude at home where they think they can get away with a more lax attitude and that the home crowd can still lift them? Obviously it will not do that in most home games. The crowd was more lively in the Vandy game and the team acknowledged that. I also wonder the team probably had a different attitude because Vandy had just taken #1 to OT.

The team has played hard in all of the road games IMO. They need to take that underdog mentality with them in every game no matter where it is played. They should really only be favored in maybe two more games if Vegas is really paying attention. Play like there is nothing to lose now and attack the darn rim.


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we have some legit struggles with this roster on O and we ran into a very hot team in baylor ...

next year will be the most talented roster OU has had under lon
 
Agree with your comment on our offense. But they’ve allowed their poor offense to bleed into their defense. It was horrible versus Baylor. This team can turn this around but it’s gonna start with their effort on the defensive end. Key word being effort.
 
Agree with your comment on our offense. But they’ve allowed their poor offense to bleed into their defense. It was horrible versus Baylor. This team can turn this around but it’s gonna start with their effort on the defensive end. Key word being effort.

I agree completely. The Sooners got to 11-1 by playing better defensively than they've played in a few years. And the hard-nosed play (effort) on the defensive end is exactly what made the offense click. Get back to that mind-set and the wins will come again.
 
we have some legit struggles with this roster on O and we ran into a very hot team in baylor ...

next year will be the most talented roster OU has had under lon

I don't know how you can say that over our final 4 team. But i hope you're right
 
I don't know how you can say that over our final 4 team. But i hope you're right

Because that was a 4 man roster. Dante Buford and Dijynl Walker were the first two guys off the bench lol.
 
we have some legit struggles with this roster on O and we ran into a very hot team in baylor ...

next year will be the most talented roster OU has had under lon

Agreed. Next year’s roster upgrade starts with a do-it-all point guard in De’Vion Harmon. Think Quannas White in size, physicality and ability to run the show. Our offense will not stall out with De’Vion in control. He can also play defense.

He’s really good at breaking down defenders with the dribble drive and finishing at the rim. But, he’s even better at driving the lane and dishing to open teammates on the perimeter. Players like Manek, Bieniemy, and Freeman for that matter, who can shoot it from deep when they’re open, are going to love our new point guard. With all due respect to Calixte, driving and dishing to open teammates is not one of his strengths.

WSU transfer, Austin Reaves, who is a proven shooter from deep with a 45% average from behind the arc will give us a 6’ 5” wing who can rain threes. He made seven threes in one half the season before he transferred to OU. Newcomers Alondes Williams any Jalen Hill, who can shoot it from the perimeter and score in a variety of ways will also be in the mix.

I get excited just thinking about an offense with more shooters and scorers than we have seen in sometime. Better than our Final Four team? That may be a bit of a stretch. But I do think next year’s team has the potential to make a deep run in March if the team chemistry and the new pieces fall in place the way I hope they will.

And, that’s just our guards, wings and stretch fours. I’m exhausted! I’ll let someone else talk about our bigs and anyone I might have missed
 
Because that was a 4 man roster. Dante Buford and Dijynl Walker were the first two guys off the bench lol.

But still.. that 4, plus a lattin that was in his perfect role basically making him a legit 5th man on the roster.. would be tough to out weigh
 
I don't think Boulder is predicting next year's team will be better, i.e., more wins and deeper tourney run, than 2016, he is just saying there will be more pure talent. If the new kids are as good as advertised, I think he's right. And if they stay together for multiple years and have guys who work like Buddy and Isaiah, they can hopefully do great things.
 
I don't think Boulder is predicting next year's team will be better, i.e., more wins and deeper tourney run, than 2016, he is just saying there will be more pure talent. If the new kids are as good as advertised, I think he's right. And if they stay together for multiple years and have guys who work like Buddy and Isaiah, they can hopefully do great things.

It might be all semantics. I just hope hes right and we start competing for conference championships and overall in March
 
I don't think Boulder is predicting next year's team will be better, i.e., more wins and deeper tourney run, than 2016, he is just saying there will be more pure talent. If the new kids are as good as advertised, I think he's right. And if they stay together for multiple years and have guys who work like Buddy and Isaiah, they can hopefully do great things.

very much this i expect to be a tourny team next year (they likely will be one this year as well)

and then they have a chance to be special the year after that
 
Agreed. Next year’s roster upgrade starts with a do-it-all point guard in De’Vion Harmon. Think Quannas White in size, physicality and ability to run the show. Our offense will not stall out with De’Vion in control. He can also play defense.

He’s really good at breaking down defenders with the dribble drive and finishing at the rim. But, he’s even better at driving the lane and dishing to open teammates on the perimeter. Players like Manek, Bieniemy, and Freeman for that matter, who can shoot it from deep when they’re open, are going to love our new point guard. With all due respect to Calixte, driving and dishing to open teammates is not one of his strengths.

WSU transfer, Austin Reaves, who is a proven shooter from deep with a 45% average from behind the arc will give us a 6’ 5” wing who can rain threes. He made seven threes in one half the season before he transferred to OU. Newcomers Alondes Williams any Jalen Hill, who can shoot it from the perimeter and score in a variety of ways will also be in the mix.

I get excited just thinking about an offense with more shooters and scorers than we have seen in sometime. Better than our Final Four team? That may be a bit of a stretch. But I do think next year’s team has the potential to make a deep run in March if the team chemistry and the new pieces fall in place the way I hope they will.

And, that’s just our guards, wings and stretch fours. I’m exhausted! I’ll let someone else talk about our bigs and anyone I might have missed

First off I always hate “the guy on the bench is always better “talk . I also hate even more the “ I have connections to the team BS”

Saying that I DO know someone close to the team who is around them a lot and it has been said Reaves is the BEST player on the team this year.

Again everyone on here knows that I’m pessimistic the last few years when it comes to OU , so it’s not like I’m just throwing around a bunch of homer hype .

Again that’s what has been said to many on many occasions the last couple months
 
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First off I always hate “the guy on the bench is always better “talk . I also hate even more the “ I have connections to the team BS”

Saying that I DO know someone close to the team who is around them a lot and it has been said Reaves is the way player on the team this year.

Again everyone on here knows that I’m pessimistic the last few years when it comes to OU , so it’s not like I’m just throwing around a bunch of homer hype .

Again that’s what has been said to many on many occasions the last couple months

The thing that makes me so confident about Reaves is that he has already shown that he is a good player in high level Division 1 games. I think he probably would be a 15+ point guy for WSU this season had he stayed, and that would be playing in a system that doesn't really allow players to flourish offensively. He will have a lot more freedom playing for Lon than he did Marshall, so I have no doubt he will be able to show even more of his offensive skills.
 
Reaves is very good, will likely be one of the best shooters in program history.
 
Wasn't much focus on Lon's coaching ability after we destroyed Vanderbuilt who had just come off an overtime loss to #1 Tennessee.

I guess most of our perspective is just one game wide and for some one play wide.

Vanderbuilt was possibly the best game we have played this year. Baylor on the other hand is clearly the worst.

Several reasons

Vandy was slow and inexperienced. Baylor was much quicker.

Baylor hit over 50% of thier shots and over 50% from three. We have consistently held teams around 30% and several games under 30% from behind the arc. Baylor could have probably thrown up one when exiting from the bus and it probably would have gone in. While there were too many open shots there were also many well contested that went in.

We probably had the poorest shooting night of the year. Seemed that every thing rimmed out, even the close in shots. Baylor's defense seemed to befuddle our offense and we did not get a lot of open shots.

Most important Baylor appears to have the best point guard in the conference. And he just decimated our defense. He is a grad transfer. Wish we had picked him up. But Baylor seems to get a lot of high profile transfers as does Iowa State.

We have no easy games left. Every game could be a loss as well as a win. Frankly I think we are capable of winning all of them or losing all of them. Either way, we will see the character of this team emerging in the final weeks of the regular season. Hope they start going our way.
 
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Wasn't much focus on Lon's coaching ability after we destroyed Vanderbuilt who had just come off an overtime loss to #1 Tennessee.

I guess most of our perspective is just one game wide and for some one play wide.

Vanderbuilt was possibly the best game we have played this year. Baylor on the other hand is clearly the worst.

Several reasons

Vandy was slow and inexperienced. Baylor was much quicker.

Baylor hit over 50% of thier shots and over 50% from three. We have consistently held teams around 30% and several games under 30% from behind the arc. Baylor could have probably thrown up one when exiting from the bus and it probably would have gone in. While there were too many open shots there were also many well contested that went in.

We probably had the poorest shooting night of the year. Seemed that every thing rimmed out, even the close in shots. Baylor's defense seemed to befuddle our offense and we did not get a lot of open shots.

Most important Baylor appears to have the best post guard in the conference. And he just decimated our defense. He is a grad transfer. Wish we had picked him up. But Baylor seems to get a lot of high profile transfers as does Iowa State.

We have no easy games left. Every game could be a loss as well as a win. Frankly I think we are capable of winning all of them or losing all of them. Either way, we will see the character of this team emerging in the final weeks of the regular season. Hope they start going our way.

I still think the Texas Tech game ,even in loss was our best game . We won almost every stat other than FG% ( Tech does that to everyone ) and FF% which was they difference and the reason they won .
You shoot 100% ( 17-17) you deserve to win a close game. That had nothing to do with us losing , tech just was just perfect .
What I’m saying we actually outplayed a final four type team on their home court , and should have won ....credit tech.
I was proud of that loss , and I’m not into moral victories
 
Reaves is very good, will likely be one of the best shooters in program history.

Interesting to think about -- who was the most recent OU player who showed up on campus and you knew (knock on wood) that he would be a very good to great shooter from day one? We've had some great guards and some guys who turned into very good shooters, but not many guys who I would consider pure, knockdown shooters. And some of the best ones we had even going back 20 years were guys who were limited athletically and couldn't really get their own shot (Heskett, Newton, Neal). I think Reaves will surprise a lot of people who think of him as only a shooter.
 
Reaves is very good, will likely be one of the best shooters in program history.

Careful now. I said the same thing about Steven Pledger. He was a good player and a decent shooter, but he was a long ways from being one of the best in program history. Lesson learned.

I agree with you about Reaves. The difference, of course, is that Pledger was a high school recruit, Reaves proved he is an above average player and three point shooter at a high level D-1 school. I also think it’s safe to assume he took advantage of his year off to get even better. I can’t wait to see what he can do next season!
 
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