Big 12 shaking out...

[DenverSooner]

OU has never played in the 8/9 game, so if it's going to happen, this would be the perfect year for it. There is no dominant team in college basketball - no 2012 Kentucky or 2009 North Carolina types to worry about. A team with an elite bench coach and a boatload of hungry seniors will be a tough out.

I still think we need 21 wins to get in the 8/9 range. Anything north of 21 wins and the seed gets better.

Wasn't the Temple game an 8 v. 9 game?

 

[WTSooner]

Wasn't the Temple game an 8 v. 9 game?

Nope. 7 vs 10.

 

[WTSooner]

Funny but a cousin of mine, a big OState fan, and I usually do this exact thing each year (combining the teams). You're right about recent teams, especially last year.
Here would be my combined team, assuming starters stay starters and bench players stay on the bench:

Starters
PG - Smart, OState
SG - Brown, OState
OG/SF - Hield, OU (if healthy))
PF - MBaye, OU
PF/C - Osby, OU

Bench
PG - Grooms, OU( starting now)
SG - Forte, OState
OG/SF - Williams, OState
F - Clark, OU
PF/C - Fitzgerald, OU

Coach
Kruger, OU (easiest pick)

Hield does not start over Pledger. Hield wasn't even starting this year at OU over Pledger.

 

[KBaden145]

Hield does not start over Pledger. Hield wasn't even starting this year at OU over Pledger.

You're right. I have Brown starting over Pledger.

 

[WTSooner]

You're right. I have Brown starting over Pledger.

It's the same position. Neither OU nor OSU have a guy that qualifies as a true SF. Maybe Cam. Pledger has played the "3" spot for OU most of the year, even though like I said, the 2/3 is basically the same position in college.

It's absurd to suggest Hield would start over Pledger.

Edit: Actually, you said that was YOUR team, not the team LK, Ford, or a rational coach would choose. You can start who you want if that is what you are doing.

 

[KBaden145]

It's absurd to suggest Hield would start over Pledger.

No it's not. It's my team. Pick your own. Hield is my pick over Nash, who is starting at SF for OState. Every mock NBA draft I've seen with him in it lists him as a SF. Sorry. Buddy can guard multiple positions, which is what I want. Pledger and Nash can't.

Rational coach? WT, relax... Just throwing it out there. Be nice.

 

[TheGimper]

It's the same position. Neither OU nor OSU have a guy that qualifies as a true SF. Maybe Cam. Pledger has played the "3" spot for OU most of the year, even though like I said, the 2/3 is basically the same position in college.

It's absurd to suggest Hield would start over Pledger.

Edit: Actually, you said that was YOUR team, not the team LK, Ford, or a rational coach would choose. You can start who you want if that is what you are doing.

It's also absurd to think Forte would get the backup shooting guard spot over Pledge.

 

[KBaden145]

It's also absurd to think Forte would get the backup shooting guard spot over Pledge.

I agree but my premise was I would only put guys on my bench who are reserves right now. May not have explained that very well. This is how I made my choices:

Smart over any OU point guard
Brown over Pledger
Hield over Nash
MBaye over Cobbins
Osby over Jurick

Just the way I look at the teams and/or matchups.

 

[oSuJeff97]

We are a completely different team than we were prior to conference play.

Well, that doesn't mean that those games don't count. They're still part of your "body of work."

I believe our SOS and RPI speaks very well to our body of work.

Indeed. OU has a very strong SOS that is built on playing a large number of teams in the 51-199 range in RPI during non-conference play. What that translates to is a strong SOS/RPI from avoiding playing lots of bad (RPI 200+) teams.

OU has played and beaten lots of "good" teams, but not many "quality" (RPI top 50) teams.

I have seen multiple mocks with us listed higher than 8/9. We are not an 8/9 seed right now.

Where are these "multiple mocks?" The three most often quoted and reliable bracket projectors all have OU as 8/9:

• Jerry Palm/CBS: 8
• Joe Lunardi/ESPN: 9
• Andy Glockner/SI: 9

I didn't start the comparisons between the 2 teams. I'm just saying one school is a solid 5 seed and one is an 8/9. There is no difference between the 2 teams except one game in the conference (@ KU). That one game isn't worth 3 to 4 seeds.

Ummm... that's exactly what you're doing. You're directly comparing OU to OSU. It's not about how two particular teams look compared with each other, it's about each individual team's body of work.

And as much as you want to ignore the first half of the season, that's not the way it works. But if you want to compare the two, here's why their respective seeds are where they are...

With the road win at Kansas, OSU has one of the best wins in the entire field. It also has two more wins away from home against RPI top 50 teams.

OU doesn't have a single win away from home aganinst and RPI top 50 team.

Like it or not, these things matter to the Committee, which is why OSU is a solid 5-seed and OU is currently projecting to the 8/9 line.

That said, OU still has time to collect a few quality wins away from Norman. Obviously, a nice run in the Big 12 tournament could provide a significant boost to your seed.

 

[DenverSooner]

Funny but a cousin of mine, a big OState fan, and I usually do this exact thing each year (combining the teams). You're right about recent teams, especially last year.
Here would be my combined team, assuming starters stay starters and bench players stay on the bench:

Starters
PG - Smart, OState
SG - Brown, OState
OG/SF - Hield, OU (if healthy))
PF - MBaye, OU
PF/C - Osby, OU

Bench
PG - Grooms, OU( starting now)
SG - Forte, OState
OG/SF - Williams, OState
F - Clark, OU
PF/C - Fitzgerald, OU

Coach
Kruger, OU (easiest pick)

I don't see how you leave off Pledger, Nash or Cobbins from your bench. Actually I don't see how you don't start Nash or Pledger (one of them, the other is the 6th man). I think you take Brown, Smart, Pledger or Nash, Osby and M'Baye as starters. I think the Bench is Fitzgerald, Cam Clark, Sam Grooms, Cobbins, Forte, Pledger or Nash, Hield and Jurrick.

 

[KBaden145]

Jeff, I'm not ignoring the first half of the season. I'm just saying what we have since the first of the year will matter more leading into the tourney. Regardless of how it was accomplished, our RPI against the schedule we have played plus a good finish will carry the day.

I agree OState's win at KU was fantastic but it is the only real legit difference between either school's resume. Agree?

I just said I didn't start the comparison but I'm only comparing our schools bc I know them best. Pick another 5 seed and I bet we compare very well with them.

I have seen Lunardi put us at 7. A mock selection Seth Davis was involved in using the actual system the NCAA uses had us as a 6. They had OState as a 5 I believe. It was just prior to Bedlam in Stillwater. Thought at one point Palm had us at 7, as well. I have seen other experts project us as a 6 or 7, depending on our finish.

I agree we need to win out and do well in KC to get a 6th seed.

 

[KBaden145]

I don't see how you leave off Pledger, Nash or Cobbins from your bench. Actually I don't see how you don't start Nash or Pledger (one of them, the other is the 6th man). I think you take Brown, Smart, Pledger or Nash, Osby and M'Baye as starters. I think the Bench is Fitzgerald, Cam Clark, Sam Grooms, Cobbins, Forte, Pledger or Nash, Hield and Jurrick.

Denver, read some of my other posts on how I picked the team. I had a rhyme to my reason.

I can see starting Pledger over Hield or Nash at a wing. I was just going for a little more versatility and defense. My team, again not any of yours.

 

[oSuJeff97]

I agree OState's win at KU was fantastic but it is the only real legit difference between either school's resume. Agree?

No - I don't agree. I've brought this up multiple times. Here is the primary difference:

OU vs. RPI Top 50: 2-6 (0-6 in R+N)
OSU vs. RPI Top 50: 5-4 (3-4 in R+N)

When teams have similar overall profiles, as OSU and OU do, you look at (a) who'd you beat and (b) where'd you beat 'em.

Obviously there is still a few weeks of the season to play out. I'm just talking about the "right now" difference. As of right now, OSU has the slightly stronger overall profile, which is why every bracketologist has us seeded higher.

That doesn't mean this is the way it'll shake out on Selection Sunday. It just means that right now OSU has the stronger profile.

 

[KBaden145]

No - I don't agree. I've brought this up multiple times. Here is the primary difference:

OU vs. RPI Top 50: 2-6 (0-6 in R+N)
OSU vs. RPI Top 50: 5-4 (3-4 in R+N)

When teams have similar overall profiles, as OSU and OU do, you look at (a) who'd you beat and (b) where'd you beat 'em.

Obviously there is still a few weeks of the season to play out. I'm just talking about the "right now" difference. As of right now, OSU has the slightly stronger overall profile, which is why every bracketologist has us seeded higher.

That doesn't mean this is the way it'll shake out on Selection Sunday. It just means that right now OSU has the stronger profile.

I agree with that. My thing is there almost no difference between these teams on the court and not much difference in their resumes. I am also having trouble with how OState is getting voted in the top 15 and we only got 5 votes.

However, as frustrated as that makes me, I understand everything that has happened to this point does matter (to different degrees) and OStates resume is a bit stronger. Never argued that. I was trying to make the point that there is not much difference between OU between OState or anyone else who might be considered to be on the 5 line. We don't have to beat certain teams of a certain RPI to move up to say a 7 or 6, IMO. We just need to keep winning, period.

 

[WTSooner]

I think it is much simpler than that. The biggest difference is simply that OSU has two more wins than OU has. Replace one of those KSU games, and either Arkansas or SFA with a Sooner victory, and our profile is probably right in line with OSU's.

 

[oSuJeff97]

I agree with that. My thing is there almost no difference between these teams on the court and not much difference in their resumes. I am also having trouble with how OState is getting voted in the top 15 and we only got 5 votes.

Well... you know the polls... they often don't make sense. It's as much about when you win and lose games as anything.

Luckily... this isn't college football, so the polls don't really mean anything.

However, as frustrated as that makes me, I understand everything that has happened to this point does matter (to different degrees) and OStates resume is a bit stronger. Never argued that. I was trying to make the point that there is not much difference between OU between OState or anyone else who might be considered to be on the 5 line. We don't have to beat certain teams of a certain RPI to move up to say a 7 or 6, IMO. We just need to keep winning, period.

Very true. And if you think about it, there is very often little-to-no difference between the teams once you get outside of the top 4 seeds in any given year.

Look how many times the 5/12, 6/11 and 7/10 upsets happen. Those games have become as much of a toss up as the 8/9 games in recent years.

So yeah, minor differences in overall profiles may determine seeding, but really there isn't much difference in teams once you get past the top 4 seeds.

 

[KBaden145]

I believe in the 7-10 matchup, the 10 seed has won more. Seems to always be where the committee makes some seeding errors.

 

[skyvue]

oswho got on the map early with their strong win over NC State and they've not had any kind of serious slide since. The hype surrounding Smart has helped them as well.

 

[DenverSooner]

Look how many times the 5/12, 6/11 and 7/10 upsets happen. Those games have become as much of a toss up as the 8/9 games in recent years.

I wouldn't say recent years. It has been that way ever since I went to college in the mid 80s.

 

[oSuJeff97]

I wouldn't say recent years. It has been that way ever since I went to college in the mid 80s.

Good point.

I believe in the 7-10 matchup, the 10 seed has won more. Seems to always be where the committee makes some seeding errors.

Well, I don't think it's seeding errors so much as it was what I was saying earlier... once you get past the top 4 seeds, there isn't much difference between the teams.

Or perhaps more accurately, the teams that are seeded past the top 4 seeds are all going to have some kind of weakness or vulnerability... and so it becomes all about matchups.