By itself, not a terrible loss...

[bocabull]

Cam Clark was a stud athlete who was throwing down alley oops from a foot above the rim. A physical mismatch for a lot of teams. The highest rated talent on the team last year. Thomas is a nice player but don't mistake his height for how high he plays. Clark got up higher.

Thinking Thomas was an upgrade over Clark was very optimistic.

 

[sheepdogs1]

Cam Clark was a stud athlete who was throwing down alley oops from a foot above the rim. A physical mismatch for a lot of teams. The highest rated talent on the team last year. Thomas is a nice player but don't mistake his height for how high he plays. Clark got up higher.

Thinking Thomas was an upgrade over Clark was very optimistic.

Thomas averaged 1 rebound per 9 minutes played tonight, 4 rebounds in 36 minutes played. Where is the desire?

 

[WTSooner]

Cam Clark's biggest contributions last year had little to do with athleticism. He made 3 pointers. The same open 3 pointers our guards have been getting all season.

 

[slappy in OP]

Knowing that we don't / can't win any close games has me worried. Is it possible this team goes 5-4 through the next 9 games (or 4-5) and really becomes in jeopardy for a NCAA bid? I never would have thought that was even a possibility after the UT game, but we have been pretty bad since.

They have to find a way to turn this around. Fingers crossed. :OUbball-logo:

 

[garyeb2]

Cam was a nice player and probably even a nicer guy. But, this, if we only had Cam back argument just won't float.

Firstly, if M'Baye had stayed, Cam would have come off the bench for spot duty as a senior just like he did as a Jr. Secondly, as a senior, Cam vanished for complete games and stretches of games just like he always did. Thirdly, when the opponents got an easy basket, it was always Cam that blew the defensive rotation.

We got some streaky offensive production out of Cam. That was a good thing. But, that was about all there was to it. On Thomas's good days, we are a better team than we could have ever been with Cam. Thomas is just not stringing together enough good days. That could change at any time.

 

[WTSooner]

Cam was a nice player and probably even a nicer guy. But, this, if we only had Cam back argument just won't float.

Firstly, if M'Baye had stayed, Cam would have come off the bench for spot duty as a senior just like he did as a Jr. Secondly, as a senior, Cam vanished for complete games and stretches of games just like he always did. Thirdly, when the opponents got an easy basket, it was always Cam that blew the defensive rotation.

We got some streaky offensive production out of Cam. That was a good thing. But, that was about all there was to it. On Thomas's good days, we are a better team than we could have ever been with Cam. Thomas is just not stringing together enough good days. That could change at any time.

Agreed.

 

[SOONERREDDOG]

I agree......Additionally, I believe this team has a very low BB I. Q. they do not play smart. Is ego or just dumb? maybe both, still think this is a sweet sixteen team with good matchups. But, they lack leadership and IQ.

Dawg

 

[DenverSooner]

I like Lon, and I'm glad that he is at OU.

That said, there is a reason Lon has only reached the Sweet 16 or past that 3 times in 29 years of D1 coaching (4 of those with Pan American).

This is Lon's ceiling. This is the kind of team he builds. Good, solid teams. Teams that will place 3-5 in good conferences. Teams that will make the Dance most years. Teams that might even win a game in the Dance most years. But that's about it, save some luck or a transcendent player.

And I'm not really complaining about that. It is what it is at this point. But it's a little frustrating.

I don't see how you can say this. Lon has had three recruiting classes. A big problem with this team is no bench production. OU got screwed with Buford and didn't have much of a recruiting class Capels last year. Next season OU will lose two players and add five. That should make a big difference for the bench.

 

[WTSooner]

I don't see how you can say this. Lon has had three recruiting classes. A big problem with this team is no bench production. OU got screwed with Buford and didn't have much of a recruiting class Capels last year. Next season OU will lose two players and add five. That should make a big difference for the bench.

I can say it b/c I have 29 seasons of Lon Kruger coaching achievements to support it. That's how.

And part of the bench struggles go against LK as well. He recruited most of those guys. I know he can't help that Buford isn't eligible. But he recruited Booker. He recruited Walker. He recruited Lattin. He recruited Bennett. He recruited all 4 of those guys that aren't playing very well. He also recruited McNeace, knowing a redshirt was likely. And he gave Cole a scholarship, which in theory kept LK from bringing another player on board.

I'm happy with Lon, just pointing out that the bench is entirely his at this point.

 

[tycat947]

I like Lon, and I'm glad that he is at OU.

That said, there is a reason Lon has only reached the Sweet 16 or past that 3 times in 29 years of D1 coaching (4 of those with Pan American).

This is Lon's ceiling. This is the kind of team he builds. Good, solid teams. Teams that will place 3-5 in good conferences. Teams that will make the Dance most years. Teams that might even win a game in the Dance most years. But that's about it, save some luck or a transcendent player.

And I'm not really complaining about that. It is what it is at this point. But it's a little frustrating.

I tend to agree. This program is not the embarrassment it was before Lon arrived and he's improved program tremendously. But this team isn't going to sniff the Sweet 16 this year. They just don't have "it", whatever "it" is.

 

[DenverSooner]

I can say it b/c I have 29 seasons of Lon Kruger coaching achievements to support it. That's how.

And part of the bench struggles go against LK as well. He recruited most of those guys. I know he can't help that Buford isn't eligible. But he recruited Booker. He recruited Walker. He recruited Lattin. He recruited Bennett. He recruited all 4 of those guys that aren't playing very well. He also recruited McNeace, knowing a redshirt was likely. And he gave Cole a scholarship, which in theory kept LK from bringing another player on board.

I'm happy with Lon, just pointing out that the bench is entirely his at this point.

He is still short players. To me it is a bit early to criticize Kruger. He is doing a good job in my opinion. With that said I don't like the trend of losing close games.

 

[garyeb2]

Trotting out Kruger's career stats is misleading at best. His life's work is taking over dumpster fires and returning them to respectability. Then, moving on. It has to be at the very least half of his years coached were with teams that had no chance of accomplishing much of anything. His current job might be a good example of that.

Turn around specialist, in any field, are a different breed than take them to the next level guys. OU needed a turn around specialist badly when Kruger was hired. There may be a point when a take us to the next level guy is needed. But, not yet. Kruger's job isn't finished.

It was at least going be a 4 or 5 year project to build a solid foundation under this program. He is ahead of schedule. There is plenty of season left and this edition still has a chance to keep us ahead of schedule.

 

[bgrch1350]

I like Lon, and I'm glad that he is at OU.

That said, there is a reason Lon has only reached the Sweet 16 or past that 3 times in 29 years of D1 coaching (4 of those with Pan American).

This is Lon's ceiling. This is the kind of team he builds. Good, solid teams. Teams that will place 3-5 in good conferences. Teams that will make the Dance most years. Teams that might even win a game in the Dance most years. But that's about it, save some luck or a transcendent player.

And I'm not really complaining about that. It is what it is at this point. But it's a little frustrating.

Great post.

His coaching isn't the problem, it's his recruiting. He's brought in 3 solid transfers but he's yet to bring in consistent top 100 players. And he's also not using all of his scholarships. I don't think he's had one year here where all scholarships were used. I'm not going to hate on Bennett but he brings this juco kid in to redshirt him and then he only gets 4 mins against Baylor. Tyler Neal could have used a redshirt year not Bennett.

 

[bgrch1350]

Trotting out Kruger's career stats is misleading at best. His life's work is taking over dumpster fires and returning them to respectability. Then, moving on. It has to be at the very least half of his years coached were with teams that had no chance of accomplishing much of anything. His current job might be a good example of that.

Turn around specialist, in any field, are a different breed than take them to the next level guys. OU needed a turn around specialist badly when Kruger was hired. There may be a point when a take us to the next level guy is needed. But, not yet. Kruger's job isn't finished.

It was at least going be a 4 or 5 year project to build a solid foundation under this program. He is ahead of schedule. There is plenty of season left and this edition still has a chance to keep us ahead of schedule.

I'm not going to defend Capel bc his last 2 years were bad. But ou was 2 years removed from an elite 8 and all Capel talked about in his last year was how good Osby was and Osby backed it up. This program wasn't in near as bad shape as some of you claim it to have been.

 

[Sooner04]

I'm not going to defend Capel bc his last 2 years were bad. But ou was 2 years removed from an elite 8 and all Capel talked about in his last year was how good Osby was and Osby backed it up. This program wasn't in near as bad shape as some of you claim it to have been.

From a support standpoint, both physically with fans in the seats and fiscally with donor dollars, I'm not sure there's a word to convey just how BAD it had become.

That was the main reason Ca$tiglione cut bait.

 

[sdcloud9]

I'm not going to defend Capel bc his last 2 years were bad. But ou was 2 years removed from an elite 8 and all Capel talked about in his last year was how good Osby was and Osby backed it up. This program wasn't in near as bad shape as some of you claim it to have been.

The program was a dumpster fire due to JC's recruiting of players who were trying to use OU as a stepping stone to the league. That experiment failed miserably and OU suffered the consequence.

JC spent too much time recruiting the Harrison Barnes players of the world (kids who weren't coming here) and not enough time on players he could sign and develop.

 

[bocabull]

Kruger inherited Osby, Clark & Pledger who all ended up making All Big XII. He also inherited Newell, Fitzgerald & Neal who were good enough to contribute on NCAA tournament teams. That's far from a "dumpster fire". It was actually a solid foundation that didn't require much additionally to become a 20 win NCAA tournament team.

Fast forward 4 years and the talent level has not improved. We are 7-7 against top 150 teams this season.

I keep hoping for tangible improvement but the ceiling for these guys has probably been reached. As Parcells says "You are what you are".

 

[sdcloud9]

Kruger inherited Osby, Clark & Pledger who all ended up making All Big XII. He also inherited Newell, Fitzgerald & Neal who were good enough to contribute on NCAA tournament teams. That's far from a "dumpster fire". It was actually a solid foundation that didn't require much additionally to become a 20 win NCAA tournament team.

Fast forward 4 years and the talent level has not improved. We are 7-7 against top 150 teams this season.

I keep hoping for tangible improvement but the ceiling for these guys has probably been reached. As Parcells says "You are what you are".

Bull, I respect your knowledge of the game and you make solid points but why didn't Capel make the NCAA Tournament with this solid foundation of players?

 

[AdaSooner]

I can say it b/c I have 29 seasons of Lon Kruger coaching achievements to support it. That's how.

And part of the bench struggles go against LK as well. He recruited most of those guys. I know he can't help that Buford isn't eligible. But he recruited Booker. He recruited Walker. He recruited Lattin. He recruited Bennett. He recruited all 4 of those guys that aren't playing very well. He also recruited McNeace, knowing a redshirt was likely. And he gave Cole a scholarship, which in theory kept LK from bringing another player on board.

I'm happy with Lon, just pointing out that the bench is entirely his at this point.

Nothing here I disagree with, WT. Buford would have been a nice piece this season. He was being counted on to replace Cam. Nearly everyone here, including me, thought Bennett would be much improved this year. That's the usual MO for juco players their senior season. Thomas was a good addition, but he has been far more inconsistent than I could have imagined. By all accounts, Buddy was going to be the go-to player on this team. But while he has been really good in some games, he has all but disappeared in others. When arguably the best player on the team and a projected high draft pick goes 0-7 from three and commits 5 turnovers, winning on the road in the Big 12 is a major task at best.

I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet, but I can't deny that I am disappointed as well as baffled by the up and down performances we have seen since our win on the road in Austin. I wish someone would explain how this team could run UT out of their own gym by playing superb defense for nearly 40 minutes on the road at Texas, only to try and coast to a win against K-State on their own floor the following week?

That's not the only thing that has had me frustrated lately, but it's a good place to start.

 

[bocabull]

Bull, I respect your knowledge of the game and you make solid points but why didn't Capel make the NCAA Tournament with this solid foundation of players?

He never got to coach the solid foundation he put together to recover from what truly was a dumpster fire ... The WW, TMG, Tiny Gallon implosion. But history shows he had put together a foundation to quickly overcome that mess.

X&O's coaching is pretty overrated in college sports. It really is the jimmys and the joes.