Discuss Porter Moser thread DON'T DO IT ANYWHERE ELSE

[WichitaSooner]

False. The reason Tech was worse was because they lost two key players to the portal that Beard had gifted him. We're not talking about guys who had good years in midmajor -- McCullar started all year for a 1 seed and Shannon was the best player on a tournament team. So much for mastering the portal.

Try again.

You’re so clueless sometimes. They started 0-8 in conference when they were hurt. Then significantly improved after they got healthy before fading again late. I’m sure you wouldn’t have used injuries as an excuse for Moser if we had them.

 

[Eielson]

You’re so clueless sometimes. They started 0-8 in conference when they were hurt. Then significantly improved after they got healthy

Who are you referring to?

Pop Isaacs was healthy for 13 conference (reg + tourney) games: 2-11
Fardaws Aimaq was healthy for 11 conference games: 4-7

Their record with Isaacs was actually worse, but if we completely ignore that, and just use the wonderous 36% winning percentage with Aimaq (which seems generous considering they lost their final four games), that still only translates to 6 or 7 conference wins.

6 or 7 isn't much higher than 5, though it's a lot lower than 14. But yeah, it was definitely those two guys' injuries and not the two all-conference guys that transferred out. I'm embarrassed for you.

 

[Dr Sleep]

I agree that 2 years is a short time to fully evaluate a new coach.

Several things I look for in a coach.

Do they recruit well. Porter seemed to get a couple of good players in Usan and Oweh. I felt Schroeder should have played more because it looked like he had the ability but the skills were shaky at times. Playing time is the way to fix that.
I would not be suprised to see Benny thrive at his new location.

Do the players improve. Appeared that Cortes and Hill were just as off and on this year as last year. Jacob showed early improvement but faded as the season went on. Noland a definite dropoff from his freshman year. Can't say I saw much improvement in any player.

Offensive and defensive schemes. Hardest part. Those things are far more complicated than when I played and coached. But an semi-educated guess I would give Porter a B on defense and a C- on offense. We seemed befuddlesdon offense at times. Even the defense seemed to drop off late in the season.

Game strategy and adjustments. The number of close losses seem to indicate Porter may have been outcoached a bit at crucial times. Playing time seemed to be inconsistent. Noland way too long as a starter with significant minutes with little or no contribution. And suddenly almost disapeared. Oweh with minimal minutes for much of the season and suddenly a starter. Joe Bam invisible for game after game and suddenly he appears for good playing time. Benny never many minutes but looked really good and athletic for his size at times. Seemed inconsistent and uncertain who would be on the floor and for how long.

Next season is important for Porter. Will he improve on his weaknesses or will we see the same thing next season. Some people have the ability to grow others don't.

Great post. I don’t understand his substitutions and how he decides who plays and doesn’t.

I am likely in the minority, but I am fine with the offensive scheme. Many many times they would run the offense and get a great look only to miss the shot.

He has got to develop the players better.

 

[WTSooner]

Great post. I don’t understand his substitutions and how he decides who plays and doesn’t.

I am likely in the minority, but I am fine with the offensive scheme. Many many times they would run the offense and get a great look only to miss the shot.

He has got to develop the players better.

Or run stuff to get open looks for the players that can make those shots?

If you run a set to get Hill and open 3, knowing the D probably wants him taking 10 of those a game, did your offense really "work"?

Edit: Hill took nearly as many 3 point shots this year as he had the two previous seasons combined. And he did that while shooting 29.1%.

 

[SoonerinNC]

Hill's problem is not ability but attitude. He doesn't constantly look to score.It is like "oh Im open" or "time is running out". Hard to get a good percentage that way. Good shooters are always ready to score when they get the ball in a position that they can hit a good percentage of their shots. They look to score first. Being ready to shoot also improves rythm which is important in shooting. Hill usually looks to pass and misses opportunities to take a good open shot.

Then at times, particularly when inside he tries to score no matter how outmanned he is. Leads to a lot of turnovers.

 

[inoref]

Not to bash or talk down to anyone but PM is lucky that none of the higher ups really cares about basketball.

 

[Seymore Cox]

Hill's problem is not ability but attitude. He doesn't constantly look to score.It is like "oh Im open" or "time is running out". Hard to get a good percentage that way. Good shooters are always ready to score when they get the ball in a position that they can hit a good percentage of their shots. They look to score first. Being ready to shoot also improves rythm which is important in shooting. Hill usually looks to pass and misses opportunities to take a good open shot.

Then at times, particularly when inside he tries to score no matter how outmanned he is. Leads to a lot of turnovers.

Hill’s problem is he plays for a terrible coach….. Is he gonna keep Doc Sadler as an assistant? That would be a mistake.

 

[TEvans4Three]

Re: MBB TPT2 TRANSFER PORTAL THREAD 2

We should still be able to field a good program. What recruits did FAU buy this year? How about Creighton, St Mary's, and SDS, three top 15 teams on Ken Pom?

Good coaches will still find a way to get good players into the program, develop them, and put them in a position to win. OU football wants to call itself a development program too. If we can't buy the very best recruits, BV and his staff better be able to find and develop kids. He (they) did that pretty well at Clemson, so hopefully its something he can do at OU as well.

Great.. Glad you support giving Porter Moser more time and years to do it.

St Mary's - Randy Bennett (there forever)
FAU - Dusty May (5 years - this is his first 20+ win season)
Creighton - Doug McDermott - 12 years
SDSU - Brian Dutcher - 6 years

Do you want good recruits or to give the coach a chance or have us in a weak conference? I can never tell where you're points are. Citing examples for an outlier year bc of covid + portal rules is a weird wagon to hitch to.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Re: MBB TPT2 TRANSFER PORTAL THREAD 2

Great.. Glad you support giving Porter Moser more time and years to do it.

St Mary's - Randy Bennett (there forever)
FAU - Dusty May (5 years - this is his first 20+ win season)
Creighton - Doug McDermott - 12 years
SDSU - Brian Dutcher - 6 years

Do you want good recruits or to give the coach a chance or have us in a weak conference? I can never tell where you're points are. Citing examples for an outlier year bc of covid + portal rules is a weird wagon to hitch to.

Hard to know where to even start with this post. There of the four coaches you list have been very successful at their respective programs even before this year, whereas Moser has pretty much sucked at OU. And did those coaches inherit jobs at P5 programs that made the tourney basically every year before they got hired?

I don’t see how you can dispute his point, which is that it’s certainly possible to succeed even if you don’t coach at a place with huge NIL funds. Hell, I’d argue OU was in a tougher spot before NIL, because other programs were doing stuff under the table, while Lon was as clean as it gets. Yet he still built a really good team very quickly. Of course it would help to be able to throw a ton of money at guys, but there are plenty of good programs that manage to get players and win without massive money.

 

[TEvans4Three]

Re: MBB TPT2 TRANSFER PORTAL THREAD 2

Hard to know where to even start with this post. There of the four coaches you list have been very successful at their respective programs even before this year, whereas Moser has pretty much sucked at OU. And did those coaches inherit jobs at P5 programs that made the tourney basically every year before they got hired?

I don’t see how you can dispute his point, which is that it’s certainly possible to succeed even if you don’t coach at a place with huge NIL funds. Hell, I’d argue OU was in a tougher spot before NIL, because other programs were doing stuff under the table, while Lon was as clean as it gets. Yet he still built a really good team very quickly. Of course it would help to be able to throw a ton of money at guys, but there are plenty of good programs that manage to get players and win without massive money.

Really really hard to know where to start when you post sometimes...

I am not sure how you can miss a post's point so many times. He mentioned 4 programs who, aside from Creighton, are G5 programs. The coaches at those schools have given them time to build. Much like Moser got at LC.

I am actually not disputing his point at all and AGREE with him, but I was trying to acknowledge the context of those coaches and their tenure + conferences + COVID years.

Hard to not see the irony when you complete miss the point, so many times. All of those coaches have been given time to build, where more than half this board wanted Moser fired midway through season 2. That was the only true point I was trying to get across.

SDSU saw resounding success in year 3 under Dutcher.
McDermott was garbage at ISU but found success in year 2 at Creighton. (souring with the admins there tho)
St. Mary's coach has had a roller coaster tenure but success in a weak conf + Zags.
Dusty May was meh until this lightning in a bottle year (5).

(Boulder, this should probably go in another thread, I don't want to derail the Portal thread - sorry.)

 

[WichitaSooner]

Re: MBB TPT2 TRANSFER PORTAL THREAD 2

Really really hard to know where to start when you post sometimes...

I am not sure how you can miss a post's point so many times. He mentioned 4 programs who, aside from Creighton, are G5 programs. The coaches at those schools have given them time to build. Much like Moser got at LC.

I am actually not disputing his point at all and AGREE with him, but I was trying to acknowledge the context of those coaches and their tenure + conferences + COVID years.

Hard to not see the irony when you complete miss the point, so many times. All of those coaches have been given time to build, where more than half this board wanted Moser fired midway through season 2. That was the only true point I was trying to get across.

SDSU saw resounding success in year 3 under Dutcher.
McDermott was garbage at ISU but found success in year 2 at Creighton. (souring with the admins there tho)
St. Mary's coach has had a roller coaster tenure but success in a weak conf + Zags.
Dusty May was meh until this lightning in a bottle year (5).

(Boulder, this should probably go in another thread, I don't want to derail the Portal thread - sorry.)

I didn’t miss the point at all. Your point is just wrong and ridiculous on many levels.

 

[TEvans4Three]

Re: MBB TPT2 TRANSFER PORTAL THREAD 2

I didn’t miss the point at all. Your point is just wrong and ridiculous on many levels.

K.:ez-roll:

 

[WTSooner]

Re: MBB TPT2 TRANSFER PORTAL THREAD 2

I can never tell where you're points are.

Really really hard to know where to start when you post sometimes...

Ever think maybe the problem is you and your ability to comprehend?

 

[TEvans4Three]

Re: MBB TPT2 TRANSFER PORTAL THREAD 2

Ever think maybe the problem is you and your ability to comprehend?

Joke ----->








You <-----

 

[WTSooner]

Re: MBB TPT2 TRANSFER PORTAL THREAD 2

You can’t compare OU football and OU basketball. The donors are mobilized to do everything possible for OU football. I’m not worried about that. Our recruiting is ramping up to levels we haven’t seen in at least 20 years. The basketball program, on the other hand, has much less support. We can’t compete in recruiting with our regional rivals as of right now. Programs that are historically much lesser than OU. If that doesn’t change, we will sink even further.

I do agree that a much better coach would make a big difference and could get us farther with lesser talent. A better coach could find overlooked talent and piece together a competitive team, like the schools you mentioned.

I can compare what I want to compare. My point stands. BV has said that OU needs to be a developmental program to have long-term success from here out. I believe OU basketball must do the same thing to have long-term success from here out as well. THAT was the point. Not that the two programs are the same. Not that what being a developmental program means they will go about it the same way. Just that if OU football is positioning itself that way for a number of reasons, good chance OU basketball will need to as well.

As for football recruiting, let's wait and see what it looks like over the next 5 years. I'm certainly optimistic, but suggesting we're about to recruit better than Bob ever did, that is premature. We were 8th or worse in terms of average recruit ranking for the 2023 class, and that was with landing two of the top 11 prospects in the country. Something that won't happen most years.

 

[WTSooner]

Re: MBB TPT2 TRANSFER PORTAL THREAD 2

I didn’t miss the point at all. Your point is just wrong and ridiculous on many levels.

Yep. People want to pick apart what I said, but the point remains.....there are a lot of programs around the country that aren't buying top talent that are putting consistently good basketball teams on the floor year after year. So crying that OU isn't in a position to pay $500k for a Portal guard shouldn't damn us to the Big 12 cellar.

 

[TEvans4Three]

Re: MBB TPT2 TRANSFER PORTAL THREAD 2

Yep. People want to pick apart what I said, but the point remains.....there are a lot of programs around the country that aren't buying top talent that are putting consistently good basketball teams on the floor year after year. So crying that OU isn't in a position to pay $500k for a Portal guard shouldn't damn us to the Big 12 cellar.

Wasn't picking apart what you said.

To break my comment down for you all to understand.

I wasn't disagreeing with your point. I actually agree with your point WT.
Wichita, your post made no sense to what I was saying.

My post was piggybacking on the teams you brought up. An ulterior point if you well. Not relating to NIL funds or bagmen, but instead about how those coaches have longer tenure than 2 years. A jab to those who want Moser fired during year 2. That is it, not that hard of a point to comprehend. I believe I did follow up discussing tournament luck and season schedules of G5. So it does relate to season success in that way.

Breakdown:
WT posts - I agree
TEvans post - about coaching tenure (longevity at those programs)
Wichita post - Mars atmosphere

If you want to argue G5 weak schedules of those teams to Big12, we could do that and talk consistency as well. Bc that is very apples and oranges.

 

[WTSooner]

Re: MBB TPT2 TRANSFER PORTAL THREAD 2

Wasn't picking apart what you said.

To break my comment down for you all to understand.

I wasn't disagreeing with your point. I actually agree with your point WT.
Wichita, your post made no sense to what I was saying.

My post was piggybacking on the teams you brought up. An ulterior point if you well. Not relating to NIL funds or bagmen, but instead about how those coaches have longer tenure than 2 years. A jab to those who want Moser fired during year 2. That is it, not that hard of a point to comprehend. I believe I did follow up discussing tournament luck and season schedules of G5. So it does relate to season success in that way.

Breakdown:
WT posts - I agree
TEvans post - about coaching tenure (longevity at those programs)
Wichita post - Mars atmosphere

If you want to argue G5 weak schedules of those teams to Big12, we could do that and talk consistency as well. Bc that is very apples and oranges.

So you'd prefer a name the schools with coaches in their first 2-3 years that are also not buying players that are having success? Because I can do that as well. My point stands, even if you don't love the examples I used.

 

[NorthCarolinaSooner]

Re: MBB TPT2 TRANSFER PORTAL THREAD 2

Yep. People want to pick apart what I said, but the point remains.....there are a lot of programs around the country that aren't buying top talent that are putting consistently good basketball teams on the floor year after year. So crying that OU isn't in a position to pay $500k for a Portal guard shouldn't damn us to the Big 12 cellar.

Here is my thought...and that plus 50 cents will get you a couple of gumballs.

In today's game, with NIL and the portal, which is still pretty new...the game is still learning and adjusting, all coaches are having to do it. BV is a good example because he talked about not using the portal much but he definitely has. I fully expect a lot of coaches to be learning how to navigate the portal and the NIL game for a couple of years. Yes, the ones who were already cheating just have a legal way to do it now. I think the guys who have been REALLY successful with it so far probably already had a leg up with under the table type shenanigans (a lot of guys on here want to use Tang as a model example of navigating the portal, etc but Baylor was WAY ahead of the cheating game/paying players in my opinion)...

Could PM have done better with this? absolutely!

Could OU have done better with this? without a doubt!

But I also think there is a little bit of a learning curve. You see some schools get lucky with a couple of transfers but that doesn't mean everyone will immediately. I think we have done fine with guards...and better luck with posts the first year.....I like Godwin and think he is a solid backup.....I expected more from Groves but he was decent. I'll be patient enough to see who we end up adding this year.

I think PM has done a solid job with HS recruiting....and expect that will continue.

I don't think all of the complaints on here have been unwarranted but I think some of them are. It is what it is.


That said...I would be thriled with Denver Jones and Collins....we may not get either but I'd be pleased with them.

 

[TEvans4Three]

Re: MBB TPT2 TRANSFER PORTAL THREAD 2

I can compare what I want to compare. My point stands. BV has said that OU needs to be a developmental program to have long-term success from here out. I believe OU basketball must do the same thing to have long-term success from here out as well. THAT was the point. Not that the two programs are the same. Not that what being a developmental program means they will go about it the same way. Just that if OU football is positioning itself that way for a number of reasons, good chance OU basketball will need to as well.

As for football recruiting, let's wait and see what it looks like over the next 5 years. I'm certainly optimistic, but suggesting we're about to recruit better than Bob ever did, that is premature. We were 8th or worse in terms of average recruit ranking for the 2023 class, and that was with landing two of the top 11 prospects in the country. Something that won't happen most years.

Exactly, we need to give a coach time to develop players and shouldn't expect a quick turnaround in 2 years. Couldn't agree more. Just like BV, let him get his recruits in and develop them over 3 to 4 years to fit his scheme. Well said.