ESPN Says Martin to South Carolina

I'm talking strictly about their resumes prior to being hired. Quin at the time was considered a good hire (considered among the top assistants in the country), and while it ended horribly he was not that bad through the first four years (overall success comparable to Martin). Anderson was a great hire at the time. He'd been to a sweet 16 (if you're using tournament success as a measuring stick, which for these purposes I am*) and had a good pedigree as an assistant at one of the best programs in the 90s (I believe they won more games in that decade than anyone else). And although an argument could be made that this year's national coach of the year still has a lot to prove, and although he wasn't hugely successful at Miami, he did at least have an NCAA tournament win before MU hired him.

But that really isn't the point. The point is ksu has a history stretching back multiple decades of hiring mediocre candidates. They're in decent shape now, but I doubt whoever they hire will be someone inspiring excitement around the program. They might end up with someone competent by chance. They've done it before (Kruger, Martin). But they won't end up with anyone who has other major options.




Typical MU fan, US Basketball Writers Association... either way. Clearly Haith's only supporters are homers.

Haith won 30 games with seven scholarship players. Yes, those were players someone else signed. But that prior coach won only 22 games with the same group (plus four additional players). It remains to be seen what Haith will do when these players are gone, but it's pretty clear that given the right players and resources the guy is a hell of a coach.

Kruger had a losing record at Pan-American before getting the ksu job. The only reason he was even considered at ksu is because of his ties to the program as a player/assistant. As a head coach he'd done nothing to merit being hired by a Big 8 team (one that was, at the time, a pretty solid program).

Altman had done nothing to distinguish himself, either. His only noteworthy accomplishment at that point was bringing Mitch Richmond with him when Kruger hired him as an assistant.


Both guys ended up being good coaches with long careers. But at the time they were hired, neither had done anything to indicate the success they'd eventually have (mostly after ksu) would be likely. They may end up with someone like that again. John Groce at Ohio, for example, seems like a hell of a coach. But he's not someone who'd bring instant buzz or credibility to their program. And IMO that's a best-case scenario for them. Ohio returns every single player from their sweet 16 team this year. I expect him to return to Ohio for one last run before taking a job at a bigger program next year (at the earliest).

But honestly... I don't care who they hire. It'll be fun to watch their fans set their sights high only to end up with a fourth-tier choice (and again... I'm aware of the irony).

Edit: just saw that rumors are circulating about Groce to Illinois (a top 25 type job... and significantly better than ksu). Guess I could be wrong about him staying at Ohio one more year (and wrong that he'd be the type of guy ksu would end up with... they might have to go a step lower).

Kruger won 20+ games at UT-PanAm before going to KSU. OU used to play UT-PanAm every year when Tubbs was here and we always beat them by 50. For him to win 20+ games there is an accomplishment. I'm sure his success there had something to do with KSU hiring him.

Say what you want about both Kruger and Altman, but somebody in Manhattan saw the potential in both of them. The same way they saw potential in Bill Snyder who was a career asst coach and high school coach before KSU gave him a chance. I'm by no means a KSU fan, but you have to give them credit for seeing something when they made the hire.

I will admit, Asbury and Wooldridge were terrible hires, but Asbury had won some games at Pepperdine (before going to KSU) so it's not like they found somebody from East Popcorn State. They took a chance and it didn't work out.

IMO, KSU is always going to have to find a diamond in the rough for a HC. They don't have the benefits of MU or OU or even ISU (IMO).
 
Haith won 30 games with seven scholarship players. Yes, those were players someone else signed. But that prior coach won only 22 games with the same group (plus four additional players). It remains to be seen what Haith will do when these players are gone, but it's pretty clear that given the right players and resources the guy is a hell of a coach.

You can say that about a hell of a lot of coaches!
 
I would never take the South Carolina job, that is just me though.....
 
Haith won 30 games with seven scholarship players. Yes, those were players someone else signed. But that prior coach won only 22 games with the same group (plus four additional players). It remains to be seen what Haith will do when these players are gone, but it's pretty clear that given the right players and resources the guy is a hell of a coach.

Jeff Capel won 30 games one year too. How has that worked out for OU?
 
Kruger won 20+ games at UT-PanAm before going to KSU. OU used to play UT-PanAm every year when Tubbs was here and we always beat them by 50. For him to win 20+ games there is an accomplishment. I'm sure his success there had something to do with KSU hiring him.

Say what you want about both Kruger and Altman, but somebody in Manhattan saw the potential in both of them. The same way they saw potential in Bill Snyder who was a career asst coach and high school coach before KSU gave him a chance. I'm by no means a KSU fan, but you have to give them credit for seeing something when they made the hire.

I will admit, Asbury and Wooldridge were terrible hires, but Asbury had won some games at Pepperdine (before going to KSU) so it's not like they found somebody from East Popcorn State. They took a chance and it didn't work out.

IMO, KSU is always going to have to find a diamond in the rough for a HC. They don't have the benefits of MU or OU or even ISU (IMO).

I won't disagree that someone saw something in Kruger/Altman. Whoever hired them does deserve credit for that (same for Snyder).

I also will add that I don't necessarily have anything against taking a chance on a guy who hasn't proven much. Going for a top assistant (Quin... or Roy a decade earlier) is risky, but it can pay off if you find the right guy. Mid-majors (or a guy like Haith) can also work out.

ksu is certainly not the only program that ends up settling for less than their top choice. But IMO it will be less surprising when they end up well down the list than it would for most programs replacing a coach.
 
I won't disagree that someone saw something in Kruger/Altman. Whoever hired them does deserve credit for that (same for Snyder).

I also will add that I don't necessarily have anything against taking a chance on a guy who hasn't proven much. Going for a top assistant (Quin... or Roy a decade earlier) is risky, but it can pay off if you find the right guy. Mid-majors (or a guy like Haith) can also work out.

ksu is certainly not the only program that ends up settling for less than their top choice. But IMO it will be less surprising when they end up well down the list than it would for most programs replacing a coach.

I would agree with this. I would say KSU and ISU are probably the toughest places to hire a solid coach. Normally, I would throw OSU into that mix, but they have quite a bit of recent success (2 final fours in the last 20 years) and they can pay crazy money with T Boone's backing.
 
You can say that about a hell of a lot of coaches!

True.

But I don't think there are a hell of a lot of coaches who would've won 30 games at MU this year.


Jeff Capel won 30 games one year too. How has that worked out for OU?

That's reasonable.

That said, I don't ever see Haith ever having to settle for...

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Capel's biggest problem was his inability to keep talent coming to Oklahoma after Griffin left, a problem Haith doesn't seem to have (on paper at this point, but still... )
 
sys - What do you know about Robert Upshaw, I read where it never actually signed his LOI. Any idea if he would try to get out of his commitment?

i am sure he will. kstate will not be retaining any of the asst coaches, so he will not have any continuing connection with the program.
 
True.


Capel's biggest problem was his inability to keep talent coming to Oklahoma after Griffin left, a problem Haith doesn't seem to have (on paper at this point, but still... )

You mean, outside of the 3 McDonald's All Americans who were recruited after Griffin signed with 2 of those coming after Griffin left OU?

Unfortunately, the implosion of Gallon and Mason-Griffin was ultimately Capel's undoing IMO. And it should be noted that a good portion of that appears to have been Capel's fault for not being a disciplinarian and trying to buddy up with his team.
 
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