Forte

[uberjamb]

Forte is closer to a Hollis Price than a Cade Davis. Come on guys. He's a great shooter. I love Cousins, and wouldn't trade him for Forte, but the kid can ball.

 

[allday92]

Forte could start for this OU team over Woodard. Woodard does nothing spectacular. Forte is the better shooter, averages almost twice as many steals per game, averages less turnovers and his assists numbers would go up, if he had better teammates to pass it to.

As for the NBA, Forte can make it. Have you seen JJ Barea play? All it takes is the proper system and a good pick n roll teammate for a player like Forte to thrive. He already has a NBA ready jumpshot and his handle will only improve. Size in the NBA doesn't matter at times. Barea started at the SF position last time they played OKC.

 

[DenverSooner]

I see what you are doing there.... trying to put Forte in the same class as Cade Davis. Forte is a different level player than Cade, no offense to Cade, but he just wasnt nearly as good as Forte.

No. I started this conversation saying forte was really good. I listed those two guys because they were insulted in this thread. Forte is a much better shooter than Cade Davis

 

[DenverSooner]

Forte could start for this OU team over Woodard. Woodard does nothing spectacular. Forte is the better shooter, averages almost twice as many steals per game, averages less turnovers and his assists numbers would go up, if he had better teammates to pass it to.

As for the NBA, Forte can make it. Have you seen JJ Barea play? All it takes is the proper system and a good pick n roll teammate for a player like Forte to thrive. He already has a NBA ready jumpshot and his handle will only improve. Size in the NBA doesn't matter at times. Barea started at the SF position last time they played OKC.

Do you understand that Jordan is not expected to score. At Texas he had 10 points, six assists, plus a steal and about four rebounds. That is a great game.

Got lies was all big 12 and he couldn't hit free throws. PGs do not have to score.

 

[coolm]

I like Forte and enjoy watching him play. That said ...
1. He is in no way, shape, or form an NBA player. please.
2. I'd LOVE to see him in C&C. Would he start here over Jordan? uhm, I don't know. I tend to think Jordan would keep his spot due to physical attributes and propensity to drive a semi-open lane. But I wouldn't put anything past a kid with heart and a high basketball IQ. But to me Forte's skills are more geared to the 2.
3. Is he better than Cousins? Different players. Cousins is by far the better defender and IMO that gives him the nod ... but Forte would be a stellar 6th man with minutes like a 6th starter.
4. Forte would have a nice impact on this team. He'd get plenty of minutes and fans would love him. Running him down is silly.

 

[usedtobe1]

Forte could start for this OU team over Woodard. Woodard does nothing spectacular. Forte is the better shooter, averages almost twice as many steals per game, averages less turnovers and his assists numbers would go up, if he had better teammates to pass it to.

I'm mixed on your post. I agree with some of it and adamantly disagree with other parts. If Forte were at OU the player he would most likely displace is Woodard .... not Cousins or Buddy. Woodard's overall play has improved a lot this year. His turnovers are down and assists are up. I've seen him make a couple of passes this year that made me rewind my DVR because I couldn't believe he saw the open man (e.g. the pass he made to Spangler on the break for OU's first points against Texas .... Ryan got fouled and hit the FT's so Jordan didn't "officially" get an assist). I think his defense is a lot better, too. He's lost a little weight and I don't see people blowing by him off the dribble like they did at times last year. I commend Jordan for improving his game in a lot of areas this year.

However, Woodard is not a very complete offensive player right now, which makes him the most likely starter on OU to be displaced. He can shoot free throws well in the clutch. He does take the ball inside if a defense goes to sleep. I do agree with DenverSooner when he says PG's are not "expected" to score, but they have to make the defense respect their ability to score and sometimes defenses double up other players and almost dare Jordan to shoot from the perimeter. You can see that he is tentative and doesn't have confidence in his outside shot, but as well as he shoots free throws some of those open 3's are going to start dropping.... he's overdue for a hot streak. He's a lot better offensively than he's shown so far this season. Anyway, I believe that

Here's the deal on Forte: I'm not sure he can play point guard. I know he does an adequate job in order to give Hickey a blow. He doesn't usually guard the other team's quickest and best ball handler. Hickey does. If Forte were on OU and started, it's likely Cousins would play the PG position .... not Forte. While Forte isn't slow and hustles a lot, I'm not sure he has the elite quickness to guard PG's consistently. It's not just about containing someone's point production, but it also means being able to disrupt a PG enough to keep him from getting to a spot and delivering a pass to an open player. A good defensive PG can keep that from happening sometimes and it never shows up in the box score. Those are the kind of intangible things that a Cousins or Woodard or Hickey can do. Maybe Forte can, too, but I haven't watched him that closely defensively..... but he usually guards a 2 or 3 guard who isn't the primary ball handler. The other thing a PG does is look to pass first, and shoot second. They become a facilitator. It's a whole different mindset..... one that both Forte and Cousins might struggle with at times. Dinjyl Walker, too. Woodard and Hickey have that mindset.

This is no knock on Forte.... or Woodard or Cousins. I would love it if he were on the Sooners roster. He would be a welcomed addition primarily for his offensive contributions. He also has a lot of "court sense". A lot of these points are nit-picky personal opinions of mine for the sake of argument. This is an interesting hypothetical discussion, but it's one that nobody can answer or win on a message board. JMHO.

 

[TINY]

I like Forte and enjoy watching him play. That said ...
1. He is in no way, shape, or form an NBA player. please.
2. I'd LOVE to see him in C&C. Would he start here over Jordan? uhm, I don't know. I tend to think Jordan would keep his spot due to physical attributes and propensity to drive a semi-open lane. But I wouldn't put anything past a kid with heart and a high basketball IQ. But to me Forte's skills are more geared to the 2.
3. Is he better than Cousins? Different players. Cousins is by far the better defender and IMO that gives him the nod ... but Forte would be a stellar 6th man with minutes like a 6th starter.
4. Forte would have a nice impact on this team. He'd get plenty of minutes and fans would love him. Running him down is silly.

/thread

 

[StatGeek]

I like Forte and enjoy watching him play. That said ...
1. He is in no way, shape, or form an NBA player. please.
2. I'd LOVE to see him in C&C. Would he start here over Jordan? uhm, I don't know. I tend to think Jordan would keep his spot due to physical attributes and propensity to drive a semi-open lane. But I wouldn't put anything past a kid with heart and a high basketball IQ. But to me Forte's skills are more geared to the 2.
3. Is he better than Cousins? Different players. Cousins is by far the better defender and IMO that gives him the nod ... but Forte would be a stellar 6th man with minutes like a 6th starter.
4. Forte would have a nice impact on this team. He'd get plenty of minutes and fans would love him. Running him down is silly.

nailed it!

 

[allday92]

Do you understand that Jordan is not expected to score. At Texas he had 10 points, six assists, plus a steal and about four rebounds. That is a great game.

Got lies was all big 12 and he couldn't hit free throws. PGs do not have to score.

Jordan is not expected to score, because he can't score. He's a liability at times. I'm saying Forte could do everything Woodard does, plus score. So he would start over him.

 

[BoulderSooner]

Jordan is not expected to score, because he can't score. He's a liability at times. I'm saying Forte could do everything Woodard does, plus score. So he would start over him.

and you would be wrong

 

[MNsooner]

6 pages on an OSU guard? I thought this stuff might end after Smart left. I guess too many of us are easily baited into arguments with OSU fans.

 

[AdaSooner]

Jordan is not expected to score, because he can't score. He's a liability at times. I'm saying Forte could do everything Woodard does, plus score. So he would start over him.

Nonsense! Jordan is averaging 8.3 ppg this season. His average is down from 10.3 ppg last year (fourth best on the team), because he doesn't need to score as much. He also averaged 37% from three, a very respectable average from behind the arc. Would it be better if he improved his average from three point range? That's a given not worthy of further comment. Aside from his poor shooting from deep so far, Jordan is doing exactly what he needs to do in running our offense.

Woodard's role is entirely different than Forte, which is why you can't really compare the two. OSU is in big trouble when Forte fails to score enough points to keep them in the game. Their loss at home to Maryland when he scored 13 points on 4 of 11 shooting from the field is a good example of that. Why was it important for him to at least carry his weight in the scoring column in that game? Nash and Hickey scored 17 and 16 points respectively. No one else had more than 8.

Jordan is surrounded by starters who average between 9.4 and 15.8 ppg. Those numbers climb higher depending on the match ups and the player(s) who need to see the ball more in our offense for each game. For example, the scoring was balanced in the Texas game, with five players scoring in double figures; Spangler had 9. Thomas had 24, Buddy scored 20 and Cousins 19 in the Baylor game. And so it goes in nearly every game.

OSU doesn't have that luxury, which is why Forte has to score to give OSU the best chance to win in every game they play. If you can't see that, I don't know what else to say.

 

[garyeb2]

6 pages on an OSU guard? I thought this stuff might end after Smart left. I guess too many of us are easily baited into arguments with OSU fans.

I'm with you on this one. Every top 50-75 team in the country has a kid that is their best guard. Their best guard will make some nice plays and score some points just like Forte does.

There may be less than 15 guards in the country that could come in and knock Buddy or Cousins over to the bench and even fewer shooting guards that could come in and play point guard for us.

That small group of really outstanding players does not include some undersized, hasn't accomplished anything yet, and a tick too slow kid from OSU. Geez.

 

[DenverSooner]

Jordan is not expected to score, because he can't score. He's a liability at times. I'm saying Forte could do everything Woodard does, plus score. So he would start over him.

A liability? Is Hickey a liability for OSU? Hickey averages 1 point a game more than Jordan but Jordan has way more assists, has hit way more free throws and I think is a better PG. Late in a game you cannot foul Jordan Woodard. That is an invaluable skill for you starting PG. late in a game you shoukd foul Hickey.

I just don't get why my daying Forte is a really good player causes OU fans to insult OU payers.

 

[thebigabd]

Jordan is not expected to score, because he can't score. He's a liability at times. I'm saying Forte could do everything Woodard does, plus score. So he would start over him.

Exactly right... if Jordan was capable of scoring 20 ppg he would be. Anyone with the ability to put up those numbers will be asked/required to do so.

"Sure, Jordan could average 22 a game but we prefer it when he scores 6 and shoots 13% from the 3pt line... its all part of the plan"

 

[JBaker]

Exactly right... if Jordan was capable of scoring 20 ppg he would be. Anyone with the ability to put up those numbers will be asked/required to do so.

"Sure, Jordan could average 22 a game but we prefer it when he scores 6 and shoots 13% from the 3pt line... its all part of the plan"

So you would take an excellent distributing PG who averages 5 assists per game, on a team that has 3 other guys that can go off for 20+ points on any given night, and bench him in favor of a guy that has fewer assist than ALL THREE starting guards on our team? Well, that would just be a bad basketball move.

 

[DenverSooner]

Exactly right... if Jordan was capable of scoring 20 ppg he would be. Anyone with the ability to put up those numbers will be asked/required to do so.

"Sure, Jordan could average 22 a game but we prefer it when he scores 6 and shoots 13% from the 3pt line... its all part of the plan"

Nobody said they were holding him back. The primary job of the PG is to get the team in its offensive sets and play defense. Doug Gotlieb was All Conference and he could not hit a fre throw let alone a shot from the floor.

I am sure fans like you defended his all conference status to no end but when it is an OU guy you have to be "Objective".

 

[thebigabd]

Nobody said they were holding him back. The primary job of the PG is to get the team in its offensive sets and play defense. Doug Gotlieb was All Conference and he could not hit a fre throw let alone a shot from the floor.

I am sure fans like you defended his all conference status to no end but when it is an OU guy you have to be "Objective".

Woodard shoots 32% from the field and 12% from the 3pt line... He does a good job at getting to the foul line though. Other than that, his offensive numbers are pretty bad. If he could get that up to 40% and 30% he would probably average 12-14 a game.

 

[scrybe]

I just don't get why my daying Forte is a really good player causes OU fans to insult OU payers.

So, you're saying allday92 is an OU fan?

 

[BigTime]

Coolm wins the thread.