Grading the Coaching Carousel

[SoonerinNC]

Doyle Parrack had to be one of the worst coaches in OU history as well as one of the best in OCU history. He was the one that brought them to national prominence.

But the end of the Drake era had OU in the tank and Parrack's hard discipline drove even lower. He ran off so many players they suited up the manager who was probably a solid Intramural player. I think they ended up with 7 players counting the manager.

Parrack's asistant John Grayson followed him with no more success. Grayson was a real nice person but the program was maybe at an all time low.

I never was comfortable with Capel though I thought he was going to be a very good recruiter. His uptempo offense never got uptempo and his defense was off and on. His half court offense was almost totally dependent on Blake Griffin and contested treys. Worse still, even in the best years they had some really bad games.

It is a danger signal when a team is so inconsistent.

 

[WaymanFan]

Almost as sad as misspelling Alvan's first name.

Leaving the program in worse shape than when you found it is a bad cross to bear. Unfortunately, it has Jeff's name written all over it.

Oops...got me there.

Good point about leaving the program in worse shape than he got it...no argument from me. I was simply responding to the utterly ridiculous comment that he was the worst coach in the history of the school.

 

[sooneronas]

 

[Mr.B!!!]

The national media sees in Capel a guy that was just two years ago in the Elite Eight and coaching one of the best basketball players on the planet. Our fan base sees a guy that lucked in to said player and once that player left, the program fell apart in two years.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but from where we were two months ago to where we are now, I feel much, much better about the future of the Oklahoma basketball program. Without seeing the product on the floor, everything CLK has done to date would earn him an "A" in my book, and I honestly expected Capel to get another year and would not have been upset if he had).

I agree with the OP, I think grade given was an inflated opinion of Capel, not necessarily a swipe at CLK.

 

[SoonerinNC]

I really expected that the late wins over OSU and Baylor would grant Capel another year but was not confident that we were going to be any better in 11-12.

I am more confident now with Kruger but not expecting championship basketball next year. I will settle for a solid team identity, consistent play and improvement in the existing players and solid contributions from the newcomers and a solid recruiting class for the next year.

Kruger's track record suggests that those are realistic expectations.

 

[thebigabd]

Once again, ABD shows how little he really knows about OU's basketball history. Off the top of my head, I can name three coaches far worse than Jeff Capel - 1) Doyle Parrack, 2) Bob Stevens and 3) Joe Ramsey. Heck, Ramsey won 31 games in two years coaching Alvin Adams...how sad was that? The other two didn't come close to winning half their games.

With a 4-2 NCAA Tournament record, one could argue Jeff Capel was the 4th most successful OU men's basketball coach in school history...but no one can argue he was the worst, and actually have a leg to stand on.

Hahaha... 4-2 record in the NCAA Tournament with literally one of the best basketball players alive. Havent you noticed Blake Griffin going for 30/15 on people night in and night out in the NBA? Come on man, get with it.

Best case scenario, Capel is the worst coach OU has had since the 1960's. Given the modern success of OU basketball over the past 25 years, the facilities, the post-season streak, the money, etc I will go ahead and stick to my claim that he is the worst coach in the history of the program.

 

[thebigabd]

Also, that 4-2 record would be better if it wasnt all done in one season. The guy was here for 5 years and we saw no post-season in 3 of them. He was brutal and the school/program got a massive upgrade with Lon Kruger.

 

[DenverSooner]

Once again, ABD shows how little he really knows about OU's basketball history. Off the top of my head, I can name three coaches far worse than Jeff Capel - 1) Doyle Parrack, 2) Bob Stevens and 3) Joe Ramsey. Heck, Ramsey won 31 games in two years coaching Alvin Adams...how sad was that? The other two didn't come close to winning half their games.

With a 4-2 NCAA Tournament record, one could argue Jeff Capel was the 4th most successful OU men's basketball coach in school history...but no one can argue he was the worst, and actually have a leg to stand on.

Joe Ramsey had a higher winning percentage in all games and in conference games than Jeff Capel. http://soonerstats.com/basketball/men/coaches/index.cfm

I am not sure how you argue he did a far worse job than Capel.

 

[WaymanFan]

Joe Ramsey had a higher winning percentage in all games and in conference games than Jeff Capel. http://soonerstats.com/basketball/men/coaches/index.cfm

I am not sure how you argue he did a far worse job than Capel.

I'm well aware of Ramsey's slightly higher winning percentage, but you can't have it both ways. Many here have no problem arguing that whatever Coach Capel's success he achieved was due to Blake Griffin. Well, Ramsey inherited the (to this day) third best player in school history and couldn't do anything with those teams. So, yes, 4-2 with Blake Griffin easily destroys 0-0 with Alvan Adams...not a real tough call.

 

[thebigabd]

I'm well aware of Ramsey's slightly higher winning percentage, but you can't have it both ways. Many here have no problem arguing that whatever Coach Capel's success he achieved was due to Blake Griffin. Well, Ramsey inherited the (to this day) third best player in school history and couldn't do anything with those teams. So, yes, 4-2 with Blake Griffin easily destroys 0-0 with Alvan Adams...not a real tough call.

When Capel is involved in a serious debate with the other bad regimes OU has had, what does that tell you about Jeff Capel?

He is being compared to other failures. Its like argueing about who is hotter between Rosie O'Donnell and Greta Van Susteren.

 

[skyvue]

I'm well aware of Ramsey's slightly higher winning percentage, but you can't have it both ways. Many here have no problem arguing that whatever Coach Capel's success he achieved was due to Blake Griffin. Well, Ramsey inherited the (to this day) third best player in school history and couldn't do anything with those teams. So, yes, 4-2 with Blake Griffin easily destroys 0-0 with Alvan Adams...not a real tough call.

Blake aside, the top contrbutors in 2007 and '08 were all Sampson recruits. Despite what the members of the Bare Cupboard Club have insisted for years, we had decent -- not great, but decent -- talent on hand and a winning tradition behind us after a quarter century of success under Tubbs and Sampson.

When Ramsey took over, we hadn't been to the tourney in 27 years and we'd only been to the NIT twice in our history. When Capel took over, we hadn't missed postseason play (including a handful of NIT appearances) in 25 years.

That's not even factoring in how much more difficult it was to get into the tourney in the mid-'70s.

For OU to miss postseason play entirely at the point in our history when Capel took over required some seriously bad seasons; the default was for us to be playing in the postseason, not missing it -- and we rarely had to settle for the NIT. And yet we managed to miss out on postseason play entirely not once, not twice, but three times on Capel's watch.

So I say, welcome aboard, Coach Kruger!

 

[thebigabd]

Blake aside, the top contrbutors in 2007 and '08 were all Sampson recruits. Despite what the members of the Bare Cupboard Club have insisted for years, we had decent -- not great, but decent -- talent on hand and a winning tradition behind us after a quarter century of success under Tubbs and Sampson.

When Ramsey took over, we hadn't been to the tourney in 27 years and we'd only been to the NIT twice in our history. When Capel took over, we hadn't missed postseason play (including a handful of NIT appearances) in 25 years.

That's not even factoring in how much more difficult it was to get into the tourney in the mid-'70s.

For OU to miss postseason play entirely at the point in our history when Capel took over required some seriously bad seasons; the default was for us to be playing in the postseason, not missing it -- and we rarely had to settle for the NIT. And yet we managed to miss out on postseason play entirely not once, not twice, but three times on Capel's watch.

So I say, welcome aboard, Coach Kruger!

 

[DenverSooner]

I'm well aware of Ramsey's slightly higher winning percentage, but you can't have it both ways. Many here have no problem arguing that whatever Coach Capel's success he achieved was due to Blake Griffin. Well, Ramsey inherited the (to this day) third best player in school history and couldn't do anything with those teams. So, yes, 4-2 with Blake Griffin easily destroys 0-0 with Alvan Adams...not a real tough call.

I disagree that it is not a tough call. I think Capel was the worst coach at OU since the 1960s and truly deserves serious consideration for the worst of all time. I think Skyview makes a pretty good case for why this is a reasonable position. Jeff Capel was horrible and I am very glad he is gone.

 

[WaymanFan]

When Ramsey took over, we hadn't been to the tourney in 27 years and we'd only been to the NIT twice in our history. When Capel took over, we hadn't missed postseason play (including a handful of NIT appearances) in 25 years.

That's not even factoring in how much more difficult it was to get into the tourney in the mid-'70s.

So I say, welcome aboard, Coach Kruger!

No excuses. He inherited Alvan Adams, and completely squandered those two years. That's why he was fired. Again, 4-2 beats 0-0. I do agree with your last statement, though.

Starting with Bruce Drake, the top three head coaches are clear, but the order is debatable: Tubbs, Sampson, and Drake (as discussed in a separate thread). The next three are clear, though the order is debatable (Bliss, MacLeod and Capel); and the last three are clear, and the order is debatable (Parrack, Stevens and Ramsey). At worst, Jeff Capel #6 out of 9. Nothing said to make him lower has made any sense because 4-2 trumps any argument to the contrary.

 

[skyvue]

Nothing said to make him lower has made any sense because 4-2 trumps any argument to the contrary.

Well, if one cared only about the NCAA tourney, your argument might hold some water, but in-season results matter, too.

The fact is, Capel added the best player in the country (who happened to live down the block and whose brother was at OU, but still, he gets a little credit) to a solid supporting cast he had little to nothing to do with bringing in. And he was building on a quarter century of success.

That situation contrasts drastically with what Ramsey had to deal with (and, btw, I have no interest in defending Ramsey one way or the other -- this is about assessing Capel), no matter how many times you state, "No excuses."

You're also not telling the whole story about Ramsey -- in his first season, the Sooners finished 18-8 (69%) overall and 9-5 (64%) in conference, which was good enough for third place.

Capel's first team with Griffin went 23-12 (66%) overall and 9-7 (56%) in conference, which left us tied for fourth. So Ramsey's 1974 squad had a better season than Capel's '08 team, but they didn't make the tourney, which was much tougher to do in those days. And guess what -- if, in 2008, the NCAA tournament has been formatted as it was in 1975, OU wouldn't have gotten a bid, either.

You can't just ignore all the extenuating circumstances and pretend they're equivalent situations. Well, you can, but not if you want to be taken seriously.

 

[DenverSooner]

Well said. I don't really care who is better between Ramsey and Capel. They were both fired because they sucked.

 

[thebigabd]

Well said. I don't really care who is better between Ramsey and Capel. They were both fired because they sucked.

Bottom line.

 

[jerry]

Well said. I don't really care who is better between Ramsey and Capel. They were both fired because they sucked.

That is really the story.

 

[Big Old Booger]

No excuses. He inherited Alvan Adams, and completely squandered those two years. That's why he was fired. Again, 4-2 beats 0-0. I do agree with your last statement, though.

Starting with Bruce Drake, the top three head coaches are clear, but the order is debatable: Tubbs, Sampson, and Drake (as discussed in a separate thread). The next three are clear, though the order is debatable (Bliss, MacLeod and Capel); and the last three are clear, and the order is debatable (Parrack, Stevens and Ramsey). At worst, Jeff Capel #6 out of 9. Nothing said to make him lower has made any sense because 4-2 trumps any argument to the contrary.

Danny Nee, Wayne Morgan, Tony Barone, Harry Miller, Parrack, Stevens and Ramsey all could have coached a team with Blake Griffin to a 4-2 tourney record and to an elite 8. The fact he had the opportunity to coach BG shouldn't skew the fact he was just not a good coach.

As for the coaching carousel, I think of all the teams we had the biggest upgrade.

 

[artvandelay]

interesting that he gave UNLV a higher grade than OU. looks like we should've hired Dave Rice! lol