I apologize to Trae Young

thebigabd

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As I was watching Trae Young go for 22 points, 14 assists, and 6 rebounds last night against Lebron James.... and 20 points and 11 assists against Kemba Walker.... and 28 points and 9 assists against Utah... and 27 points and 8 assists against PHX.... and so on and so forth...it occured to me.... Last year wasn't his fault. Not when the same exact thing is happening this year.. And the year before TY got to Norman the team went 11-20.

Maybe I didn't want the problem to be Lon Kruger, or the problem to be systemic within the program... all the pre-season hype on this forum was "now that TY is gone we will play more team basketball", and for some of the games that seemed true but it was fools gold. It's just a different type of trash basketball, the kind being played without a star player.

Anyway... I digress.
 
As I was watching Trae Young go for 22 points, 14 assists, and 6 rebounds last night against Lebron James.... and 20 points and 11 assists against Kemba Walker.... and 28 points and 9 assists against Utah... and 27 points and 8 assists against PHX.... and so on and so forth...it occured to me.... Last year wasn't his fault. Not when the same exact thing is happening this year.. And the year before TY got to Norman the team went 11-20.

Maybe I didn't want the problem to be Lon Kruger, or the problem to be systemic within the program... all the pre-season hype on this forum was "now that TY is gone we will play more team basketball", and for some of the games that seemed true but it was fools gold. It's just a different type of trash basketball, the kind being played without a star player.

Anyway... I digress.

I, too, thought it was a lot of Trae's fault. I remember reading on another site that Trae really felt like he was a good teammate, and kind of blowing it off when I read it.

But after the way this season has gone, it's becoming more apparent to me that these senior and junior classes that were supposed to lead the team last year and this year are just mentally weak and really poor leaders.

Yes, you can blame Lon for recruiting them, but at some point the players have to get some of the responsibility. When Kruger had another class that was experienced and was in the system for years, they did great (Buddy, Cousins, and Spangler). So I think that's why I don't put as much of this on Lon as a lot of people. He's shown what he can do with hard working, mentally tough, experienced players.

This senior (and junior) class is missing some of those, and that's what's killing this team. Poor attitudes. Constantly getting mad at themselves and/or each other.

I'm really anxious to see what Kruger can do with next year's class. I would give Kruger two more years. If things haven't gotten better with the class that's coming in next year, then I will say it's probably time to start looking elsewhere.

I think the most frustrating thing about Kruger's tenure is the fact that he wasn't really able to capitalize off of the Final Four run. I mean a lot of coaches could turn that into a few really good recruiting classes, and instead we got Doolittle (Edmond), McGusty, Freeman, Manek (Harrah), Polla (Project), and Lazenby (JuCo project) in the years following that run.

Some of those were decently highly rated players out of high school, but none that could really come in and be highly competitive in the Big 12 for a few years. I just would've hoped we could have gotten some players that could come in and immediately contribute on a high level in conference play.

And obviously Trae, which this years team was supposed to be built around with McGusty too. But if Trae had been here this year, we wouldn't be any better because the same Junior and Senior classes would be leading this team.

Anyway, congratulations to Trae for his success in the NBA. Glad he's proving a lot of people wrong.
 
Eh, I still don't think he was a very good teammate or overall player last year, but I agree that he wasn't the only problem.
 
Eh, I still don't think he was a very good teammate or overall player last year, but I agree that he wasn't the only problem.

You don't think the national leader in points and assists was a good overall player?
 
You don't think the national leader in points and assists was a good overall player?

Didn't realize that points and assists were all that mattered. That is why I said OVERALL. You might look up the meaning of that word. It means "all aspects of being a basketball player."

Must be exhausting being the defender of all things OU. Good grief.
 
Didn't realize that points and assists were all that mattered. That is why I said OVERALL. You might look up the meaning of that word. It means "all aspects of being a basketball player."

Must be exhausting being the defender of all things OU. Good grief.

Lol.. but seriously? :ez-roll:
 
What's crazy, is if you add the records together from this team and last years team of all out of conference games...what would our record be, like what 26-3?? And it's not like we have played nothing but patsies!! The conference games have just ate our lunch.

I do agree that I feel a lot of this is in the players. CJ has GOT to hit those FT's after that flagarant was called...we ended up with ZERO points on that possession....and that was the ball game.
 
As I was watching Trae Young go for 22 points, 14 assists, and 6 rebounds last night against Lebron James.... and 20 points and 11 assists against Kemba Walker.... and 28 points and 9 assists against Utah... and 27 points and 8 assists against PHX.... and so on and so forth...it occured to me.... Last year wasn't his fault. Not when the same exact thing is happening this year.. And the year before TY got to Norman the team went 11-20.

Maybe I didn't want the problem to be Lon Kruger, or the problem to be systemic within the program... all the pre-season hype on this forum was "now that TY is gone we will play more team basketball", and for some of the games that seemed true but it was fools gold. It's just a different type of trash basketball, the kind being played without a star player.

Anyway... I digress.


Guilty!

I’m one who bought into the theory that team basketball and better defense was alive and well at OU again. And, in the non-con portion of our season I was right. There were more posters bragging on our defense than we have seen in sometime.

But when the wheels came off, they didn’t just wobble and shake like a wheel out of balance, they came off hubcap, rim and all. I’m still in shock about how quickly our success went south. Some said the non conference was fools gold. Maybe it was, but I still believe this team has enough talent to be more competitive.

The pattern this season has been all too similar to the collapse we saw last season. Three straight disappointing years following a final four finish was more than I could handle. Frustration like I had never experienced before began to set in.

The players and the make up of the teams each of those seasons were different. But one thing remained the same. I would love to be proven wrong that coaching was not the problem. If the players weren’t good enough, that’s on the coaching staff. They’re being paid well to evaluate, recruit, develop and motivate our players. Their job is to put our players in the best possible position to win games. I don’t expect Us to win every game. I do expect an OU team to be competitive.

Sorry, bigabd! I know this is not the path you wanted this thread to take. Rant over!. I’ll be fine when I have my second cup of coffee.
 
We have a very similar team (roster) this year as we had last year, minus Trey. We are trending towards a VERY similar record as last year as well, achieved in about the same way (ie, a bunch of OOC wins and a poor Big 12 record).

So how much of a difference in terms of team success did Young really have? I feel like I can make a pretty strong argument that it wasn't much. Some of you will object to that. I don't care. Basketball history is full of players that put up great stats but don't make their teammates, and thus their team, better.
 
What's crazy, is if you add the records together from this team and last years team of all out of conference games...what would our record be, like what 26-3?? And it's not like we have played nothing but patsies!! The conference games have just ate our lunch.

I do agree that I feel a lot of this is in the players. CJ has GOT to hit those FT's after that flagarant was called...we ended up with ZERO points on that possession....and that was the ball game.

CJ does need to hit those FTs, but Manek missed the front end of a 1 and 1 a possession or two prior. And then Manek's lack of rebounding killed the team at the end of the game.
 
As I was watching Trae Young go for 22 points, 14 assists, and 6 rebounds last night against Lebron James.... and 20 points and 11 assists against Kemba Walker.... and 28 points and 9 assists against Utah... and 27 points and 8 assists against PHX.... and so on and so forth...it occured to me.... Last year wasn't his fault. Not when the same exact thing is happening this year.. And the year before TY got to Norman the team went 11-20.

Maybe I didn't want the problem to be Lon Kruger, or the problem to be systemic within the program... all the pre-season hype on this forum was "now that TY is gone we will play more team basketball", and for some of the games that seemed true but it was fools gold. It's just a different type of trash basketball, the kind being played without a star player.

Anyway... I digress.

Thank you for having the gall to admit it. Big props to you.
 
We have a very similar team (roster) this year as we had last year, minus Trey. We are trending towards a VERY similar record as last year as well, achieved in about the same way (ie, a bunch of OOC wins and a poor Big 12 record).

So how much of a difference in terms of team success did Young really have? I feel like I can make a pretty strong argument that it wasn't much. Some of you will object to that. I don't care. Basketball history is full of players that put up great stats but don't make their teammates, and thus their team, better.

Yes, but you cannot control for the improvement (no matter slight) that the players had from last year to this year. Despite the results of the games, to say the players are exactly the same as last year would be a fallacy.
 
We have a very similar team (roster) this year as we had last year, minus Trey. We are trending towards a VERY similar record as last year as well, achieved in about the same way (ie, a bunch of OOC wins and a poor Big 12 record).

So how much of a difference in terms of team success did Young really have? I feel like I can make a pretty strong argument that it wasn't much. Some of you will object to that. I don't care. Basketball history is full of players that put up great stats but don't make their teammates, and thus their team, better.

Petty jealousy also set in and helped snowball last year's team. And I've yet to hear a Hawk player say anything but how great of a teammate Young is.
 
Didn't realize that points and assists were all that mattered. That is why I said OVERALL. You might look up the meaning of that word. It means "all aspects of being a basketball player."

Must be exhausting being the defender of all things OU. Good grief.

No, it must be exhausting for you. Accolades alone suggests he was more than a good "overall" player. You look up the definition. Did you ever stop to consider maybe it is you that is the dummy?:facepalm
 
Didn't realize that points and assists were all that mattered. That is why I said OVERALL. You might look up the meaning of that word. It means "all aspects of being a basketball player."

Must be exhausting being the defender of all things OU. Good grief.

Really? I didn't know that the dictionary definition of "overall" included a reference to basketball. Man I wish I had your knowledge.
 
Yes, but you cannot control for the improvement (no matter slight) that the players had from last year to this year. Despite the results of the games, to say the players are exactly the same as last year would be a fallacy.

I get that, but I'm not seeing enough improvement, and we lost McGusty and Lattin also, to offset what we lost and brought in. I feel like the two teams are pretty darn similar. You can disagree. That is what I see.
 
Must be exhausting being the defender of all things OU. Good grief.

Is it exhausting being negative regarding all things OU? It must be, because you were completely silent for two-plus months when things were going well for the team and only returned when it was clear that a repeat of last season's collapse was underway.

Good grief.
 
Is it exhausting being negative regarding all things OU? It must be, because you were completely silent for two-plus months when things were going well for the team and only returned when it was clear that a repeat of last season's collapse was underway.

Good grief.

I'm not negative about all things OU. I'm plenty happy with the state of our football program. But our bball program is TERRIBLE.

And I was around before the collapse. But I saw this coming. Maybe not to this extent, you but can bet your backside I saw it coming. Folks had blinders on and didn't want to see it, so I stayed quiet.
 
I get that, but I'm not seeing enough improvement, and we lost McGusty and Lattin also, to offset what we lost and brought in. I feel like the two teams are pretty darn similar. You can disagree. That is what I see.

I agree. I don't know how you can look at last years team and this & not see the similarities on how the team trended throughout the year. Other than style of play it's almost the same except last year had more talent & this year has more toughness.

I still feel like this years team is about where most of us thought they'd be. Just that the OOC got everyone excited and the expectations blew up, and now conference play is balancing it out. This team doesn't have anybody that can break down the defense consistently and go make a play for himself and his teammates every game.

I still believe next years team will be good and easily get OU in the dance.
 
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