Is Cade Davis more than a role player?

[thebigabd]

20 points, 10 rebounds against Texas.
13 points, 1 rebound against Nebraska (only player in double figures).
24 points, 3 rebounds against Iowa State.
9 points, 7 rebounds at A&M.
15 points, 11 rebounds against Mizzou.
9 points, 4 rebounds against OSU.

Those look more like "primary" player numbers than role player numbers to me. Plus the guy is OU's best defender.

He got a lot better this year, which bodes well for the rest of the season and especially next season.

 

[Seymore Cox]

http://ouhoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11876&page=4


That debate is over. Everyone now knows that Cade is a good player, regardless of what his stat lines read.

 

[SoonerfanTU]

To soon to tell. Let's see how the season finishes up, and to some degree, lets see what happens next year.

It wasn't long ago the guy was shooting something in the 20% range. He's had a nice run of games. He is CERTAINLY a good role player. No doubt about that at this point. Way too soon to say he is a one, two, or three option on a good team though. Heck, when healthy, he is probably the 4th or 5th option on this OU team.

 

[Shooterms]

TU, you truly amaze me. :ez-laugh:

Here is 2 of Cade's 20. If only he were athletic.

 

[Seymore Cox]

To soon to tell. Let's see how the season finishes up, and to some degree, lets see what happens next year.

It wasn't long ago the guy was shooting something in the 20% range. He's had a nice run of games. He is CERTAINLY a good role player. No doubt about that at this point. Way too soon to say he is a one, two, or three option on a good team though. Heck, when healthy, he is probably the 4th or 5th option on this OU team.

There's a big misconception about what makes a player. Alot of guys look at a statline and say well he scored twenty points, he must be good. That has never defined Cade to me. I've alway said I felt Cade is the second best overall player on this team outside of TC. That is very evident now. The biggest thing Cade did yesterday was being able to help Crock defend James yesterday. James would have had a field day on anyone else on our roster besides those guy. James would have had a field day on James Anderson, Munelo, and alot of good players in this league.

There's no denying that Cade has evolved offensively. He stopped being just a spot up shooter and started attacking the rim. And yes, he's not as good offensively as TMG, Warren, Gallon, and Crocker. But his versatylity, his athleticism, and his hard nose way to go about things, warrant his pt. I guarantee you all the coaches in this league have a ton of respect for him. Next year Cam Clark is going to come in and get major pt. It won't come from Cade's minutes.

 

[SoonerfanTU]

I've alway said I felt Cade is the second best overall player on this team outside of TC.

I agree. But that is also this team's problem. If Willie and Tiny live up to standards.....or if we have that other "go to" player, we're a better team, and Davis is our 3rd or 4th best overall player. Goes back to the whole debate we had yesterday. I still don't think you can have a legit top 25 team with Cade as your best or second best player. The guy was getting RIPPED for his offense until the last couple of weeks. And he still isn't shooting it all that well. His points are going up b/c he is getting more shots. When Willie comes back healthy, if he doesn, Cade's numbers should go down. None of that is a diss on Cade.

And I'm sorry, but you can't be a great player based on intangibles alone, unless you play out of this world defense. Cade plays very good D, but he isn't a lock down guy that specializes. Eduardo wasn't a great player b/c he hustled. He was a great player b/c he hustled and put up good offensive numbers. Hollis wasn't a great player b/c he was tough. He was a great player b/c he was tough and put up good offensive numbers. Cade has shown flashes, especially of late. Let's see what happens when we go on the road again though. Let's see what happens when Willie comes back. Let's see what happens when he shoots his 2.5 year average from 3, and doesn't hit 4 of his first 6. Yes, the hustle and the defense and the intangibles will be there.....just like many a good role player at OU.

 

[SoonerfanTU]

Next year Cam Clark is going to come in and get major pt. It won't come from Cade's minutes.

Where are those minutes going to come from then? Either Cam won't play as much, or Cade won't. Cade will not start as the 2 guard next year, IMO. He might get back up minutes there, but he won't start there. My money, at this point, is actually on Cam getting relatively limited minutes, especially if we only lose Willie and Crocker from the guards, and we sign a JUCO 2 guard that comes in and plays. There just aren't enough minutes to go around any other way.

 

[MsProudSooner]

Where are those minutes going to come from then? Either Cam won't play as much, or Cade won't. Cade will not start as the 2 guard next year, IMO. He might get back up minutes there, but he won't start there. My money, at this point, is actually on Cam getting relatively limited minutes, especially if we only lose Willie and Crocker from the guards, and we sign a JUCO 2 guard that comes in and plays. There just aren't enough minutes to go around any other way.

Are you saying that you don't think Cade will start at all next year? Or just that he won't start at the 2?

If you think he won't start at all, who will do all the things he does this year?

 

[Seymore Cox]

Are you saying that you don't think Cade will start at all next year? Or just that he won't start at the 2?

If you think he won't start at all, who will do all the things he does this year?

Coventional thinking is that Willie Warren goes pro. If that isn't the case, Cam would get minutes from Warren or whoever is at the four before Cade IMO. Of course Cam has to come in here and earn PT.

 

[ou10304]

Where are those minutes going to come from then? Either Cam won't play as much, or Cade won't. Cade will not start as the 2 guard next year, IMO. He might get back up minutes there, but he won't start there. My money, at this point, is actually on Cam getting relatively limited minutes, especially if we only lose Willie and Crocker from the guards, and we sign a JUCO 2 guard that comes in and plays. There just aren't enough minutes to go around any other way.

If you think a JUCO 2 guard is gonna come in and start in place of Cade....well that's laughable. And unbelievable.

 

[SoonerfanTU]

My last post on this for today, b/c I feel like I'm pointing to a few of Cade's weaknesses to make my point, which I think is valid, but that is taking away from alot of the good that Cade is doing.

My entire point is that on a legit top 25 team, Cade probably shouldn't be one of the top 2-3 players. I really believe that. Now.....on this team, this year, should Cade be playing as many minutes as anybody not named TMG? Absolutely. This year, he should. Is Davis one of our top 2-3 players this year? To date, absolutely. But you can put Cade Davis on, say, Tulsa's team, and he is arguably their best guard. Does that make him a great player? I don't think so. Just b/c OU's stars aren't playing well, and just b/c OU is having a down year, doesn't make the best players comparable to the best players on the good teams. That has been my entire point. If OU wants to be a top 25 team next year.....and we want to finish 1-3 in the conference.....and we want to get a top 5-6 seed in the Dance.....I don't think Cade Davis can play as big a role as he's been forced to play this year. You need your best players, offensively, to be more effecient scorers then Davis has been at any point while at OU. He scores the ball with the effeciency of a very good role player. His other attributes.....his D, his toughness, his hustle.....top notch. And that helps the team a tremendous amount. But good teams don't have guys that score the ball at his percentages taking the most, the second most, or the third most number of shots during a game or season. IMO, of course.

I love Cade, and I'm glad he is finally doing what alot of us begged him to do in taking the ball to the hole. He has never been a true shooter, that isn't his game. Not sure what has clicked, but for the time being, it is working. And when he is on a good streak and the shots are falling too, he is pretty salty. Gotta know when to stop shooting though. Gotta know when to give the shots to the guys that shoot it "better".

 

[SoonerfanTU]

Are you saying that you don't think Cade will start at all next year? Or just that he won't start at the 2?

If you think he won't start at all, who will do all the things he does this year?

At this point, I think he starts at the 3, and Cam comes off the bench. Coach learned this year that you have to have a couple of experienced guys on the court. We'll likely start two sophs in TMG and Tiny, and two newcomers (hopefully) at SG and C. And that should be fine. Depending on who those players end up being, Cade shouldn't be a top 3 offensive option on that team. But his leadership, experience, and D at the 3 spot will be VERY helpful. And it'll be nice to not through Cam to the fire. I think he'll be more like Tiny then TMG, in that he'll have alot to learn, b/c right now he gets by on his height/athletic ability, but that will be somewhat neutralized in college. He'll have a learning curve, and it'll be nice to not have to rely on him to start.

 

[SoonerfanTU]

Coventional thinking is that Willie Warren goes pro. If that isn't the case, Cam would get minutes from Warren or whoever is at the four before Cade IMO. Of course Cam has to come in here and earn PT.

Cam isn't a 4. He can play there ala TC and Davis, but asking a frosh to come in and guard big time college PF's isn't a smart move. I doubt we see that. And I think, unless we strike out big time on recruits, that we'll have enough able bodies to not have to use Cam as a 4, unless the other team goes very small. In which case Cade might be the 4 before Cam.

 

[SoonerfanTU]

If you think a JUCO 2 guard is gonna come in and start in place of Cade....well that's laughable. And unbelievable.

I didn't say that.

And if we sign a JUCO 2 guard, it isn't going to be for bench depth.

 

[Seymore Cox]

Cam isn't a 4. He can play there ala TC and Davis, but asking a frosh to come in and guard big time college PF's isn't a smart move. I doubt we see that. And I think, unless we strike out big time on recruits, that we'll have enough able bodies to not have to use Cam as a 4, unless the other team goes very small. In which case Cade might be the 4 before Cam.

You don't know what Cam can do. He's an inch taller than Tony and alot more capable of playing the hybrid 4 than Cade Davis, who is doing it at times for us this year. Secondly, just as many thought that Pledger and Willis were going to take Cade and TC's minutes this year, the same will be false for next year. Cam's going to be good. But Cade will be a four year guy in the system and a team leader. He's not riding the bench for anyone and that's including the Smith Juco guy, Poland, or anyone else OU is recruiting at this point. Anybody that can play like he played against Texas and defenders like Mason, Bradley, Balbay, and James has to be pretty good. I'd take him over Muenelo, Tairu, Anthony Jones, Walkup, the stiffs at Nebraska, etc.

 

[BanjoCharley]

I agree. But that is also this team's problem. If Willie and Tiny live up to standards.....or if we have that other "go to" player, we're a better team, and Davis is our 3rd or 4th best overall player. Goes back to the whole debate we had yesterday. I still don't think you can have a legit top 25 team with Cade as your best or second best player. The guy was getting RIPPED for his offense until the last couple of weeks. And he still isn't shooting it all that well. His points are going up b/c he is getting more shots. When Willie comes back healthy, if he doesn, Cade's numbers should go down. None of that is a diss on Cade.

And I'm sorry, but you can't be a great player based on intangibles alone, unless you play out of this world defense. Cade plays very good D, but he isn't a lock down guy that specializes. Eduardo wasn't a great player b/c he hustled. He was a great player b/c he hustled and put up good offensive numbers. Hollis wasn't a great player b/c he was tough. He was a great player b/c he was tough and put up good offensive numbers. Cade has shown flashes, especially of late. Let's see what happens when we go on the road again though. Let's see what happens when Willie comes back. Let's see what happens when he shoots his 2.5 year average from 3, and doesn't hit 4 of his first 6. Yes, the hustle and the defense and the intangibles will be there.....just like many a good role player at OU.

TU your argument seems to be that if we had five players better than Cade he would be a bench player. That's true of anyone. If the Lakers had five players better than Kobe he'd be a bench player. They don't and we don't, moot point. (or mute point as some insist on saying incorrectly.)

 

[SoonerfanTU]

You don't know what Cam can do.

Yet you do? I've seen enough basketball that I can make an informed decision. You probably thought Taylor could play the 3, huh? You can't plug a square peg into a round hole. Cam, as a true frosh, would get torn up at the 4 spot. That is my opinion, and I'd bet Jeff Capel would agree.

Secondly, just as many thought that Pledger and Willis were going to take Cade and TC's minutes this year, the same will be false for next year. Cam's going to be good.

You can't have it both ways. Is Cam going to be good like Pledger and Tiny were going to be good? Or is Davis going to play b/c he is better, and has more experience? I never thought Pledger would get minutes from Willis. Willis is a project. And who knows what Pledger's minutes would be like if his shot was falling. But he is a perfect example of over-hyping recruits. All I heard is that he was a great defender, did the little things, and could put the ball on the ground. I couldn't form my own opinion, b/c I hadn't seen him play. But that description, based on what I've seen, isn't accurate at all. So when you say Cam is going to be good, forgive me if I take that to mean IN TIME he'll be good. He is a perfect example of the type of player that struggles right off the bat in college. Not b/c he isn't good. Not b/c he doesn't have the talent. But b/c he needs to hone his skills, and not just use his size, like he has in HS.

 

[Seymore Cox]

You know what, Why am I listening to a guy that said Cade isn't very good very often and another guy that said Cade couldn't start for any other big12 team. That says enough in it's self. It baffles me how some can go overboard about some guy that puts up 15pts in the Jayhawk league or some guy averaging 10pts for lower half big12 teams that haven't went to the tourney in years, but then turn basketball skills analyst on a three year contributor (twice on tournament teams) and team leader.

 

[Sam]

Just my personal take on the Cam at the 4 debate, I don't think he could do it for extended periods vs teams with big 4s. Cam has a finesse game more so then power and right now doesn't seem that strong when compared to some of the Big 12 posts. I think against teams that have smaller 4s he could give solid time at the 4 in a pinch but overall as a young freshman adjusting to the college game he wold struggle vs some of the more physically mature bigs in conference play. He might work best in some zones downlow as a low post helpside defender with his hops, but given his tweener size (6'6, 6'7 is small for a 4) and being a skinny guy in 1 on 1 situations there would be issues on defense.

 

[Seymore Cox]

Yet you do? I've seen enough basketball that I can make an informed decision. You probably thought Taylor could play the 3, huh? You can't plug a square peg into a round hole. Cam, as a true frosh, would get torn up at the 4 spot. That is my opinion, and I'd bet Jeff Capel would agree.

I've watched enough non youtube live action to make a good assessment. And since I have, I do believe that Cam can do what Tony is doing this year at that position. Now do I want him to play it, no. As for thinking Taylor can play the three? Where did you get that from?

You can't have it both ways. Is Cam going to be good like Pledger and Tiny were going to be good? Or is Davis going to play b/c he is better, and has more experience? I never thought Pledger would get minutes from Willis. Willis is a project. And who knows what Pledger's minutes would be like if his shot was falling. But he is a perfect example of over-hyping recruits. All I heard is that he was a great defender, did the little things, and could put the ball on the ground. I couldn't form my own opinion, b/c I hadn't seen him play. But that description, based on what I've seen, isn't accurate at all. So when you say Cam is going to be good, forgive me if I take that to mean IN TIME he'll be good. He is a perfect example of the type of player that struggles right off the bat in college. Not b/c he isn't good. Not b/c he doesn't have the talent. But b/c he needs to hone his skills, and not just use his size, like he has in HS

.

As I mentioned three post earlier, Cam has to come in and earn it. Go check.