Is Cade Davis more than a role player?

[SoonerfanTU]

You know what, Why am I listening to a guy that said Cade isn't very good very often and another guy that said Cade couldn't start for any other big12 team. That says enough in it's self. It baffles me how some can go overboard about some guy that puts up 15pts in the Jayhawk league or some guy averaging 10pts for lower half big12 teams that haven't went to the tourney in years, but then turn basketball skills analyst on a three year contributor (twice on tournament teams) and team leader.

Yet most fans were saying much worse about Cade a few weeks ago.

Again, as has been my point on nearly every argument on this board, two weeks, or three weeks worth of games doesn't change my opinion of someone. Cade isn't going to start burying threes at a 40% clip. Wright isn't goint to start throwing double-doubles out every game. I DON'T THINK. I hope they do, especially Cade since he'll be around next year. But I tend to value what I've seen for 2+ years moreso then a couple of weeks.

And the proof will be in the pudding when Willie comes back. Let's see who loses shots.

 

[SoonerfanTU]

As I mentioned three post earlier, Cam has to come in and earn it. Go check.

That isn't an answer. Because if he does come in and play, then you could have been right. And if he comes in and comes off the bench, you could have been right. At least I'm willing to put my prediction.....my thoughts at this time out there. You want to blast me for having an opinion, then you want to give a vague, open-ended response to cover your backside.

 

[Seymore Cox]

Just my personal take on the Cam at the 4 debate, I don't think he could do it for extended periods vs teams with big 4s. Cam has a finesse game more so then power and right now doesn't seem that strong when compared to some of the Big 12 posts. I think against teams that have smaller 4s he could give solid time at the 4 in a pinch but overall as a young freshman adjusting to the college game he wold struggle vs some of the more physically mature bigs in conference play. He might work best in some zones downlow as a low post helpside defender with his hops, but given his tweener size (6'6, 6'7 is small for a 4) and being a skinny guy in 1 on 1 situations there would be issues on defense.

It's not really a debate. The point I was trying to make Sam is that It's alot more likely for Cam to get minutes at the four position which is still void and or the two position which will be up for grabs than an established guy like Cade. If we don't solidfy that position in recruiting, we're looking at Fitz at the four and Honore. I see Cam cutting into those minutes before Cade's minutes. As always, I respect your opinion Sam. You're a true Sooner fan.

 

[Seymore Cox]

That isn't an answer. Because if he does come in and play, then you could have been right. And if he comes in and comes off the bench, you could have been right. At least I'm willing to put my prediction.....my thoughts at this time out there. You want to blast me for having an opinion, then you want to give a vague, open-ended response to cover your backside.

It's not a prediction, you have to come in and earn every thing. Nobody is an automatic starter. Wheter it be a Juco AA or a McD's AA. Just as we all were guilty of pegging guys as automatic minutes. Who would have thought the points leader in last year's McD's AA game is losing minutes to Ryan Wright? That's college basketball. It's alway been that way.

 

[SoonerfanTU]

Who would have thought the points leader in last year's McD's AA game is losing minutes to Ryan Wright? That's college basketball. It's alway been that way.

Which is a perfect example of why I'm trying not to pin high hopes on Cam as a true frosh. Much like Tiny, he dominates b/c of size and athleticism. He won't be able to do that at OU, not even against the bad teams. That is why I think, or one reason I think, Cade has the starting spot locked up at the 3 next year, save some major recruiting blunders/pickups.

 

[Sam]

Which is a perfect example of why I'm trying not to pin high hopes on Cam as a true frosh. Much like Tiny, he dominates b/c of size and athleticism. He won't be able to do that at OU, not even against the bad teams. That is why I think, or one reason I think, Cade has the starting spot locked up at the 3 next year, save some major recruiting blunders/pickups.

Unlike Tiny, Cameron won't have to adjust to playing a position he isn't familiar with. I think some of his driving might be limited, but his midrange game is still going to be there as his high release point plus size will allow him to get it off vs most college defenders. I think Cam's adjust will be similar to TMG, not saying he will be going off for a bunch of 20+ games like TMG has been recently but it won't be as difficult as Tiny's or Pledgers. I think Cade has the starting spot locked up at 2.

 

[Seymore Cox]

Which is a perfect example of why I'm trying not to pin high hopes on Cam as a true frosh. Much like Tiny, he dominates b/c of size and athleticism. He won't be able to do that at OU, not even against the bad teams. That 'is why I think, or one reason I think, Cade has the starting spot locked up at the 3 next year, save some major recruiting blunders/pickups.

I'll pin high hopes on Cam. Especially two to three years down the line. He is that talented. But As we've seen, you can't just go out on the court and be talented. That's why I've been pumping up the guy who's been here and the guy who is evolving into a complete player. Who knows where Cade plays, the 2, 3, or 4. I don't think that has been determined yet. But he'll play, he'll play alot, and he'll be an on the court leader.


It's funny, because One of my favorite sooners of all time is Dave Sieger. He's known in Sooner basketball history as a Sooner great. What if him and Cade traded places in era?

 

[Darwin]

If Cade shoots the 3 at close to 40% avg. then he will be a top 3 option next year. Everything else he brings makes him a starter as a senior and a leader, role players don't usually start. If Cade gets only 22mpg next year, it means the team is a lot deeper and who wouldn't want that. Too bad he didn't redshirt as a freshman because I'd love to have him 2 more years.

 

[Seymore Cox]

If Cade shoots the 3 at close to 40% avg. then he will be a top 3 option next year. Everything else he brings makes him a starter as a senior and a leader, role players don't usually start. If Cade gets only 22mpg next year, it means the team is a lot deeper and who wouldn't want that. Too bad he didn't redshirt as a freshman because I'd love to have him 2 more years.

I was thinking the same thing. Only thing about it was he contributed as a freshman. About on the same clip as Pledger. Next year we'll be good if not better on the perimeter.

 

[SoonerfanTU]

It's funny, because One of my favorite sooners of all time is Dave Sieger. He's known in Sooner basketball history as a Sooner great. What if him and Cade traded places in era?

I loved Sieger, but wasn't he the ultimate team guy? A role player? Guy didn't start until his senior year, for the most part, and played the least amount of minutes of all the starters.

Also, here are the lifetime 3 point averages for Cade and Dave:

Sieger: 40%
Davis: 32%

That difference may seen relatively small, but it's actually the difference between and okay shooter, and a very good shooter. Dave shot 41% as a junior. Hard to compare other stats b/c of the difference in offense, but Dave had better secondary stats as well.

The best recent player that describes Cade to me is Detrick offensively, but with better intangibles and defense.

 

[SoonerfanTU]

role players don't usually start.

I disagree. Role players are the players outside of the top group of guys. Usually the top three or so. They tend to be counted on more for one thing. Rebounding. Or defense. Or ball handling. Or shooting. Wouldn't you say that Cade specializes in defense and intangibles, such as hustle and leadership? I would. Quannas White was a role player. He didn't have to be, but on that team he was. You can't have too many Chiefs, and not enough Indians. Unless you are Duke/NC and running 5 starters out there that can all score it the same, most years, then you need the top 2-3 guys taking most of the shots. That makes the rest of the guys role players. And that has been part of this team's problems.....players not knowing their roles. That is why several of us commented last night that alot of the guys played within themselves. Meaning.....they didn't try to do more than they are capable of. They played their role.

 

[buttermaker1]

He is a primary player at home, needs to pick up his road performances as does the entire team. Cade seems to excel at home but struggle on the road.

If we have to play Cam at the 4 next year we are not a top 25 team.

 

[thebigabd]

If Cade shoots the 3 at close to 40% avg. then he will be a top 3 option next year. Everything else he brings makes him a starter as a senior and a leader, role players don't usually start. If Cade gets only 22mpg next year, it means the team is a lot deeper and who wouldn't want that. Too bad he didn't redshirt as a freshman because I'd love to have him 2 more years.

Sampson used to say that you need 3 primary players and the rest to fill certain roles. Rebounders, shooters, defense, leaders, etc.

 

[gspence]

I haven't been on here much at all this year, but I have to say that Cade has been one of the main reasons to watch Sooner basketball this season. I love the way he and TMG are playing right now. They are undoubtedly are two best and most valuable players. Cade is far from perfect, he's still had some poor games here and there, but you can never fault his effort and he is really playing up to his capability.

When a kid gives max effort and his mistakes are made while playing hard, it's easy to accept. Cade is getting the minutes he gets because he leads by example and he doesn't multiply mistakes, he makes up for them. One of the big problems with this team has been guys like Tiny and WW making mistakes and then multiplying them. And what I mean by that is turning the ball over and not hustling back on defense, or taking a bad shot and then pouting because the coach yelled at you and then not blocking out.

You don't have to worry about this kind of stuff with Cade and really not with TMG anymore either.

On that note, TMG has become the best freshman in the Big 12 IMO. I wish the player he is right now would have been on last years team.

 

[BigTime]

I haven't been on here much at all this year, but I have to say that Cade has been one of the main reasons to watch Sooner basketball this season. I love the way he and TMG are playing right now. They are undoubtedly are two best and most valuable players. Cade is far from perfect, he's still had some poor games here and there, but you can never fault his effort and he is really playing up to his capability.

When a kid gives max effort and his mistakes are made while playing hard, it's easy to accept. Cade is getting the minutes he gets because he leads by example and he doesn't multiply mistakes, he makes up for them. One of the big problems with this team has been guys like Tiny and WW making mistakes and then multiplying them. And what I mean by that is turning the ball over and not hustling back on defense, or taking a bad shot and then pouting because the coach yelled at you and then not blocking out.

You don't have to worry about this kind of stuff with Cade and really not with TMG anymore either.

On that note, TMG has become the best freshman in the Big 12 IMO. I wish the player he is right now would have been on last years team.

Or that he had played this way from the get go (especially in Alaska).

 

[OULad]

i will say this, if Cade is not starting next year then we will have a very good team. hes a heck of a player. He will be a 4 year player, by far our most experienced player. I would be a lofty sum that he will start more than 50% of the games next year.

 

[Seymore Cox]

I loved Sieger, but wasn't he the ultimate team guy? A role player? Guy didn't start until his senior year, for the most part, and played the least amount of minutes of all the starters.

Also, here are the lifetime 3 point averages for Cade and Dave:

Sieger: 40%
Davis: 32%

That difference may seen relatively small, but it's actually the difference between and okay shooter, and a very good shooter. Dave shot 41% as a junior. Hard to compare other stats b/c of the difference in offense, but Dave had better secondary stats as well.

The best recent player that describes Cade to me is Detrick offensively, but with better intangibles and defense.

You missed my point completely with your statitistical comparison. My point was that Dave Sieger is regarded as a Sooner great because of the team he played on. Reverse the Era. Put Cade on that team and he's probably regarded as a great on that great team. Put Seiger on this team and you probably hear similar stupid statements that we hear about Cade. Statements about him not being very good, not being a D1 caliber player, or able to start for other big12 teams. Also, you compare their shooting percentages. That's nice and all, but what do you think Cade's percentage would be if he got the looks that Seiger got. Segier got some very wide open looks due coverage on Grant and King and the penitration from Grace and Blaylock.

 

[SoonerfanTU]

My point was that Dave Sieger is regarded as a Sooner great because of the team he played on.

No he isn't. He is regarded as a great shooter that played on a great team. He is, or was, a role player, and probably the worst starter on that '88 team.

Also, you compare their shooting percentages. That's nice and all, but what do you think Cade's percentage would be if he got the looks that Seiger got.

Seriously? Cade has had a TON of open looks the last three years. Blake helped with the last two, and this year he has gotten plenty as well. That has been the biggest knock on Cade, that he can't, or hasn't, consistently knocked down the open 3's when he's gotten them. And he gets them often.

 

[campbest]

Cade has been playing some great ball lately, he's just flat out fun to watch. With that said, there is nothing wrong to imply for this program to be a consistent second weekend team that Cade would have a toned down role (i.e. fewer shots).

This isn't a knock on him at all, he would still offer some vital minutes on a Sweet Sixteen/Elite Eight/Final Four team, however, there is no way you could rely on him as heavily as we do now. I'm sure Cade would give you the same response if you asked him, he's a smart player. As much as I love watching Cade play, at times I have to remind myself that his minutes/numbers can be directly correlated to the lack of overall talent and experience on our roster.

Let me also add that Cam cannot play the 4 on a consistent basis next year...he is just too lean at this point. Give him a year of D-I experience, an offseason in Norman and he will return a beast ready to battle with anyone.

 

[Darwin]

I disagree. Role players are the players outside of the top group of guys. Usually the top three or so. They tend to be counted on more for one thing. Rebounding. Or defense. Or ball handling. Or shooting. Wouldn't you say that Cade specializes in defense and intangibles, such as hustle and leadership? I would. Quannas White was a role player. He didn't have to be, but on that team he was. You can't have too many Chiefs, and not enough Indians. Unless you are Duke/NC and running 5 starters out there that can all score it the same, most years, then you need the top 2-3 guys taking most of the shots. That makes the rest of the guys role players. And that has been part of this team's problems.....players not knowing their roles. That is why several of us commented last night that alot of the guys played within themselves. Meaning.....they didn't try to do more than they are capable of. They played their role.

That explains your position on what a role player is. Starting pg final 4 and with his injury the hopes of a national championship were dashed. You got me there, Cade is only a role player.