Last four years in Big 12 play

[stormspencer]

Again, I think our lack of home court advantage has really hurt us. But it is still well above .500 in conference which indicates we have had decent teams. But it is not as good as it should be.

My main issue is only 5 conference roads wins in last 4 seasons (so far, including this year). We were in the thick of many close games during that time. Even if we could have won one-third of those it would help. We just seem to evaporate too many times down the stretch on the road. It makes it very difficult to achieve a .500 conference record.


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OP.....from the game threads, you and I agree on virtually every topic and stance....however, I keep seeing this narrative about fan support and its effect on a program. I'm in the minority on this, but I believe fan support is fairly overrated. I'm not saying that it is not a component, but it is somewhat insignificant. I can list countless programs that have experienced poor fan support for years and have built a winner despite poor attendance. Let's start with the school in Waco....#1 team in the country and Drew has continued to build and build without any noticeably better fan support. They have it now....because they are atop the polls, but before their attendance/support was in the same category as ours.

Other programs that have come about with little support:

• Rutgers: haven't made the tournament in 30 years, but slowly they've improved over the last 3 years.
• Seton Hall
• Colorado
• Texas Tech
• Houston: they haven't had fan support since Phi Slamma Jamma
• Auburn: they are a football school
• And I could list 10 more....those were off the top of my head.

My point is.....coaching (in all aspects) matters more than we think.

Understand....I'm not picking on you, but I hear this narrative that fan support is poor and we would be better if more fans showed up.....I think it's a lot of nonsense. Not so much from a recruiting standpoint, but more from a performance standpoint. If you win....they will come.

 

[NickZepp]

I like Lon he's done a good job taking over a tough spot and has gotten us into being a tournament team every year. But we are just middle of the pack in the Big 12 and should be better. It's time to move on from Lon Kruger. This could back fire as we've seen at Texas and Oklahoma State being pretty much bad basketball programs now but we should not settle for basically being average. So I guess I'm in the fire Lon Kruger crowd.

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[Hollisp]

Let’s just lay the cards out.

1. Lons not getting fired. So, while this makes for good MB banter it’s pretty irrelevant.
2. I think we can all agree when Lon retires that the HC search is paramount for our trajectory as a program.

So, we can banter back and forth but he’s not getting fired. So, let’s be content with what we have. Other avenues are fruitless.

 

[WichitaSooner]

OP.....from the game threads, you and I agree on virtually every topic and stance....however, I keep seeing this narrative about fan support and its effect on a program. I'm in the minority on this, but I believe fan support is fairly overrated. I'm not saying that it is not a component, but it is somewhat insignificant. I can list countless programs that have experienced poor fan support for years and have built a winner despite poor attendance. Let's start with the school in Waco....#1 team in the country and Drew has continued to build and build without any noticeably better fan support. They have it now....because they are atop the polls, but before their attendance/support was in the same category as ours.

Other programs that have come about with little support:

• Rutgers: haven't made the tournament in 30 years, but slowly they've improved over the last 3 years.
• Seton Hall
• Colorado
• Texas Tech
• Houston: they haven't had fan support since Phi Slamma Jamma
• Auburn: they are a football school
• And I could list 10 more....those were off the top of my head.

My point is.....coaching (in all aspects) matters more than we think.

Understand....I'm not picking on you, but I hear this narrative that fan support is poor and we would be better if more fans showed up.....I think it's a lot of nonsense. Not so much from a recruiting standpoint, but more from a performance standpoint. If you win....they will come.

You’ve also mainly listed schools who have been successful for a very short period. None of those schools have been as successful as we have over any sustained period. Rutgers and Colorado, among others, don’t even belong in our weight class.

 

[BoulderSooner]

It's perhaps not surprising that you'd like to see us hire a coach with roots in JUCO (what a strange obsession you have). However, given he got fired from Bowling Green for being drunk in a bar and behaving (very) inappropriately toward women, that's a pass, thanks.

Video shows Bowling Green's Chris Jans slapping woman's buttocks
https://www.si.com/college/2015/04/02/chris-jans-bowling-green-state-fired

and i can say with almost 100% confidence he would be a pass for Joe C also

 

[BoulderSooner]

1. Sounds like SEC football fans. Finishing in the bottom quadrant of the league is okay because it's a tough league?

2. Since you don't like arbitrary time frames (fair point)and want to talk about overall, Lon is 76-77 in league play since he arrived in Norman. While that record in a vacuum probably isn't fire-able (or maybe it is depending on your standards) it's fair to look at the trajectory of the program since Buddy and co. left, no? And, sure, non-con success is nice but league play is a better indicator of where a program is, because, like you said, it is a tough league and everybody plays home-and-home with everybody else. If OU finishes near the bottom most years the non-con is kind of moot, imo.

3. Granted

4. Squeaking into the tournament as a 9 or 10 seed with no real shot at making the second weekend is not indicative of a successful season, to me anyway.

5. I could argue this point but it doesn't affect how I feel about Lon going forward so whatever.

having a winning conf record is not the goal

 

[Hollisp]

having a winning conf record is not the goal

Again. Bingo!

The love affair with conference record is odd to me but I get it. I honestly do. However. Making the dance winning some games is the the ultimate goal.

 

[steverocks35]

Again. Bingo!

The love affair with conference record is odd to me but I get it. I honestly do. However. Making the dance winning some games is the the ultimate goal.

So the "ultimate goal" is not a national championship? Weird.

 

[daqman]

Again. Bingo!

The love affair with conference record is odd to me but I get it. I honestly do. However. Making the dance winning some games is the the ultimate goal.

Winning conference games and getting into the tournament/winning games there, usually go hand in hand.
You usually don't finish bottom half of the conference and then go on a run in the tournament.

 

[Hollisp]

So the "ultimate goal" is not a national championship? Weird.

Ehhhhhh. Yes it is. I type fast, it’s hard to keep up in my brain sometimes.

The ultimate goal is to win the NC. Yes

But every season the goal is to get to the NCAA tourney and win as many games as possible.

Man you are abrasive.

 

[Hollisp]

Winning conference games and getting into the tournament/winning games there, usually go hand in hand.
You usually don't finish bottom half of the conference and then go on a run in the tournament.

I don’t disagree with this

 

[steverocks35]

Ehhhhhh. Yes it is. I type fast, it’s hard to keep up in my brain sometimes.

The ultimate goal is to win the NC. Yes

But every season the goal is to get to the NCAA tourney and win as many games as possible.

Man you are abrasive.

Sorry, not trying to be abrasive. Wasn't meant as a slam towards you, I was sincerely curious about what the perceptions of our goals are.

 

[Hollisp]

Sorry, not trying to be abrasive. Wasn't meant as a slam towards you, I was sincerely curious about what the perceptions of our goals are.

Appreciated. I was on a jump to conclusions mat. Ha

I stated before the conference is a bonus to me. I’ll take wins in the tourney over conf glory. Tech is a great example. Everyone remembers their ncaa tourney run not their conf run.

I get it though. Yes there’s correlation between great conf and great match runs. But the constant harping on here about conf record makes the NCAA tourney get lost in the weeds.

If we don’t make the tourney I’ll be the first to say this was a bad year. But we aren’t there yet. Also, we are 5th in the conference right now. We aren’t OSU and sometimes it feels that way with the emphasis some have on conference records.

Also, if we are obsessed with non march games we should be pretty happy about our non conf. Yet no one talks about that.

 

[hoopsaustin]

Its so sad to me that just making the tournament is supposed to a big deal to us nowadays... under sampson, i personally thought anything less than round of 32 was an unsuccessful season, overall (ignoring the conference successes even). Now the sunshiners want us hyped over sneaking in as basically a 10 seed every year? Gmafb

Simply, is the program getting better or not? Are players consistently developing or not?

Sadly, im excited about the recruits Kruger is in on. However, i don't think itll matter if he gets them bc he wont push them to improve or hold them accountable and well be back to backdooring our way into the tournament as 10 seeds regardless imo

 

[BCSooners]

Its so sad to me that just making the tournament is supposed to a big deal to us nowadays... under sampson, i personally thought anything less than round of 32 was an unsuccessful season, overall (ignoring the conference successes even). Now the sunshiners want us hyped over sneaking in as basically a 10 seed every year? Gmafb

Simply, is the program getting better or not? Are players consistently developing or not?

Sadly, im excited about the recruits Kruger is in on. However, i don't think itll matter if he gets them bc he wont push them to improve or hold them accountable and well be back to backdooring our way into the tournament as 10 seeds regardless imo

Sampson made the tournament 11 out of 12 years, 6 out of 11 years OU was bounced in the 1st round. So Sampson only had 5 successful seasons?

 

[Hollisp]

Sampson made the tournament 11 out of 12 years, 6 out of 11 years OU was bounced in the 1st round.

I was gonna say this but was too lazy to find the stat. Ha! But hey he was great in conference!!

 

[sheepdogs1]

Appreciated. I was on a jump to conclusions mat. Ha

I stated before the conference is a bonus to me. I’ll take wins in the tourney over conf glory. Tech is a great example. Everyone remembers their ncaa tourney run not their conf run.

I get it though. Yes there’s correlation between great conf and great match runs. But the constant harping on here about conf record makes the NCAA tourney get lost in the weeds.

If we don’t make the tourney I’ll be the first to say this was a bad year. But we aren’t there yet. Also, we are 5th in the conference right now. We aren’t OSU and sometimes it feels that way with the emphasis some have on conference records.

Also, if we are obsessed with non march games we should be pretty happy about our non conf. Yet no one talks about that.

It appears our conference is not as strong as in years past thus being 5th this year doesn't have the same impact as in past years.

 

[daqman]

Its so sad to me that just making the tournament is supposed to a big deal to us nowadays... under sampson, i personally thought anything less than round of 32 was an unsuccessful season, overall (ignoring the conference successes even). Now the sunshiners want us hyped over sneaking in as basically a 10 seed every year? Gmafb

Simply, is the program getting better or not? Are players consistently developing or not?

Sadly, im excited about the recruits Kruger is in on. However, i don't think itll matter if he gets them bc he wont push them to improve or hold them accountable and well be back to backdooring our way into the tournament as 10 seeds regardless imo

I feel the same way. IF we get them, they'll disappoint and/or transfer anyway. Like Mcgusty.

 

[BCSooners]

It appears our conference is not as strong as in years past thus being 5th this year doesn't have the same impact as in past years.

Still a lot stronger than it was 8+ years ago.

 

[AdaSooner]

Appreciated. I was on a jump to conclusions mat. Ha

I stated before the conference is a bonus to me. I’ll take wins in the tourney over conf glory. Tech is a great example. Everyone remembers their ncaa tourney run not their conf run.

I get it though. Yes there’s correlation between great conf and great match runs. But the constant harping on here about conf record makes the NCAA tourney get lost in the weeds.

If we don’t make the tourney I’ll be the first to say this was a bad year. But we aren’t there yet. Also, we are 5th in the conference right now. We aren’t OSU and sometimes it feels that way with the emphasis some have on conference records.

Also, if we are obsessed with non march games we should be pretty happy about our non conf. Yet no one talks about that.

I think the NCAA tourney is more important to most of us. Conference games may demand more attention right now because they’re used as a benchmark for what we’re capable of later on. But I doubt if anyone would take a top half finish in the Big 12 over winning a game or two in the dance.

Now, beating KU to win the conference championship? Well, that’s another story.