Marques Bolden announcing today

[Eielson]

And yet if I add up every player who ever went to either Duke or Kentucky that has exceeded Blake Griffin in NBA All-Star appearances, I would only need to count to ONE (Grant Hill) No offense, but that really doesn't support your theory very well.

Yeah, but what about Willie Warren?

If you want these guys' attention, you have to earn it. After seeing what Kruger did with Cousins, Hield, and Woodard, I think we should be getting the most attention from guards in the Rivals 50-150 range. Even if it hasn't always worked out as planned, I think Pritchard, Grandstaff, and McGusty are pretty good indicators that we are.

 

[stormspencer]

Certainly, Duke is Duke. They're on TV more than Leave it to Beava re-runs.

Tip of the cap for the Pete Gillen reference.

 

[WaymanFan]

One oddball, cherry-picked stat dismisses a theory? Very few kids are going to select a program based on a single outlier, nor should they.

Davidson has produced more unanimous NBA MVPs than every other program in the country combined, yet no one is arguing that more 5-star recruits should be going to Davidson.

You made my point for me. You don't need to go to a blue-blood school to become a great NBA player. Go to Duke or Kentucky if you want a better chance at winning a National Championship or play in front of caged-crazed fans. But I cringe when I hear someone say they're going to either school because it gives them any kind of advantage of being an NBA star.

When I think of the best NBA players this century who played at least one year of college, here are some of the names which roll off my tongue: Tim Duncan, Shaq, Dwyane Wade, Chris Paul, Kevin Durant, Blake Griffin, Steve Nash, Stephen Curry, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Jason Kidd, Allen Iverson. Not many blue blood names in there.

 

[KBaden145]

You don't need to go to a blue-blood school to become a great NBA player. Go to Duke or Kentucky if you want a better chance at winning a National Championship or play in front of caged-crazed fans. But I cringe when I hear someone say they're going to either school because it gives them any kind of advantage of being an NBA star.

Exactly right. Well put...

 

[Stikboy]

Tip of the cap for the Pete Gillen reference.

HAHA

Is that guy still coaching?

 

[BigTime]

You made my point for me. You don't need to go to a blue-blood school to become a great NBA player. Go to Duke or Kentucky if you want a better chance at winning a National Championship or play in front of caged-crazed fans. But I cringe when I hear someone say they're going to either school because it gives them any kind of advantage of being an NBA star.

When I think of the best NBA players this century who played at least one year of college, here are some of the names which roll off my tongue: Tim Duncan, Shaq, Dwyane Wade, Chris Paul, Kevin Durant, Blake Griffin, Steve Nash, Stephen Curry, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Jason Kidd, Allen Iverson. Not many blue blood names in there.

Yup.

 

[Smash Williams]

You made my point for me. You don't need to go to a blue-blood school to become a great NBA player. Go to Duke or Kentucky if you want a better chance at winning a National Championship or play in front of caged-crazed fans. But I cringe when I hear someone say they're going to either school because it gives them any kind of advantage of being an NBA star.

When I think of the best NBA players this century who played at least one year of college, here are some of the names which roll off my tongue: Tim Duncan, Shaq, Dwyane Wade, Chris Paul, Kevin Durant, Blake Griffin, Steve Nash, Stephen Curry, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Jason Kidd, Allen Iverson. Not many blue blood names in there.

For the most part, those guys would have been NBA stars, regardless of school. I agree with that. I don't think anyone is arguing that players can only become stars at blueblood programs or that certain programs turn would-be NBA benchwarmers into superstars.

But it's not a matter of college programs turning players into stars, especially kids that spend one season in college. Most blue-chip recruits don't become NBA stars. Instead, it's a question of whether certain programs put those recruits in a better position to get drafted highly. It's about perception as much as anything.

You go to Duke and don't live up to expectations, you still have a chance of going high in the draft. You go to OU and don't live up to expectations, you likely hurt your draft position.

People on here probably take this personally because OU is mentioned, so substitute any other non-blueblood program in that statement.

Take Skal Labissiere, for example. He struggles playing 15 minutes a night at Kentucky, yet he's probably going to be a lottery pick. Of course, he's going to be drafted highly mostly because of his raw talent, but does he get drafted just as highly if he struggles while playing more minutes with a bigger role on a less talented team? For most players, there isn't as much of an expectation to live up to the hype immediately when going to a program like Kentucky. If you're not playing 25-30 minutes per game and putting up big numbers as a freshman at Kentucky, it's more understandable because a lot of those minutes and touches are going to future lottery picks and/or older players with NBA potential.

That's the appeal of a program like Kentucky. They're so stacked with talent that it's difficult for a player's draft stock to tank in one year there. It's not just Labissiere. Orton played less than Labissiere, and he went in the first round (end of the first rather than mid-first because of his bad knee). Those are the extremes, but there is a history of Kentucky players getting drafted higher than their college production would suggest.

It's about getting to the league. That's a major reason Calipari pushes projected first rounders to leave. He knows he can sell the next class of blue-chippers on his draft record.

 

[sperry]

Calipari is a master of preparing his guys for the draft process and maximizing their chances. That's why the recruits flock to him, he knows what he's doing and he legitimately wants to help these kids achieve their dreams. That's why I like the guy, despite his history of playing fast and loose with the rules. There are too many assholes out there like Jim Boeheim who put the players secondary to their own egos.

 

[bgrch1350]

Calipari is a master of preparing his guys for the draft process and maximizing their chances. That's why the recruits flock to him, he knows what he's doing and he legitimately wants to help these kids achieve their dreams. That's why I like the guy, despite his history of playing fast and loose with the rules. There are too many assholes out there like Jim Boeheim who put the players secondary to their own egos.

One and done players flock to him because he's just as bad as those friends and relatives that get into these kids ears telling them they should leave and take the money. Coach k usually has his players leave when they are ready for the pros. Cal has 3 or more that should be coming back to college next year.
Cal lost me when he threw the Harrison twins under the bus for not winning the championship. I hate hearing him use the excuse that they are young every year after losing a game.

 

[WaymanFan]

Take Skal Labissiere, for example. He struggles playing 15 minutes a night at Kentucky, yet he's probably going to be a lottery pick. Of course, he's going to be drafted highly mostly because of his raw talent, but does he get drafted just as highly if he struggles while playing more minutes with a bigger role on a less talented team? For most players, there isn't as much of an expectation to live up to the hype immediately when going to a program like Kentucky. If you're not playing 25-30 minutes per game and putting up big numbers as a freshman at Kentucky, it's more understandable because a lot of those minutes and touches are going to future lottery picks and/or older players with NBA potential.

That's the appeal of a program like Kentucky. They're so stacked with talent that it's difficult for a player's draft stock to tank in one year there. It's not just Labissiere. Orton played less than Labissiere, and he went in the first round (end of the first rather than mid-first because of his bad knee). Those are the extremes, but there is a history of Kentucky players getting drafted higher than their college production would suggest.

It's about getting to the league. That's a major reason Calipari pushes projected first rounders to leave. He knows he can sell the next class of blue-chippers on his draft record.

You made some good points, Smash, no doubt. Skal Labissiere was such highly ranked player that he'll be a lottery pick even though he was a bust as a freshman. Would he have been a lottery pick had he been a bust at a school like Georgia Tech? Perhaps you're right, but remember Miles Turner? He was a bust at Texas last year and he still found his way into the lottery. I think some of that has to do with the fact these guys were national top 10 recruits. Still, a scout can argue that Labissiere was stuck behind some great players at Kentucky whereas he would have stuck out like a sore thumb at Georgia Tech. Perhaps that would have changed his draft stock slightly. Again, good points.

 

[Smash Williams]

You made some good points, Smash, no doubt. Skal Labissiere was such highly ranked player that he'll be a lottery pick even though he was a bust as a freshman. Would he have been a lottery pick had he been a bust at a school like Georgia Tech? Perhaps you're right, but remember Miles Turner? He was a bust at Texas last year and he still found his way into the lottery. I think some of that has to do with the fact these guys were national top 10 recruits. Still, a scout can argue that Labissiere was stuck behind some great players at Kentucky whereas he would have stuck out like a sore thumb at Georgia Tech. Perhaps that would have changed his draft stock slightly. Again, good points.

Without questions, guys who were top national recruits in high school are more likely to get the benefit of the doubt. They're on the NBA's radar before ever stepping onto a college campus, and their reputations carry over.

Myles Turner is an interesting case. Even prior to the draft, reports indicated that NBA teams were aware that he was in a bad situation at Texas; as fans of a Big 12 team, we all saw it, but here's a good summation of it. The funny thing is that this time a year ago, the consensus was that Turner was a long-term project that would require a lot of patience, yet he ended up being an immediate rotation player from Day 1 and eventual starter for a playoff team. Did Turner improve that much from March 2015 to October 2015, or did Barnes so badly misuse him that he warped immediate expectations for Turner despite the fact that everyone knew it was a bad situation? If there were a 2015 draft do-over based on what we know now, Turner would probably go Top 5.

Looking back at how well Turner did as an NBA rookie just a year after his freshman season at Texas, I think it's safe to say that he would have been more productive in just about any other college situation, and in turn, not dropped to #11. It didn't turn out so bad for Turner, but for someone with his physical attributes (7'4" wingspan, 240 lbs) and shooting touch (84% FT shooter at Texas), his draft floor was probably really high, even compared to other blue-chip recruits.

A year from now, I'd be shocked if we're having the same conversation about Labissiere.

You rarely hear much about NBA prospects being miscast in their roles at Kentucky. Other programs can develop players just as well, but that probably doesn't mean much to a kid who's planning to leave school after one year. When you look at all the players that get drafted from Kentucky, it's easy for recruits to buy into it being a safe choice.

 

[chuckb]

Calipari is a master of preparing his guys for the draft process and maximizing their chances. That's why the recruits flock to him, he knows what he's doing and he legitimately wants to help these kids achieve their dreams. That's why I like the guy, despite his history of playing fast and loose with the rules. There are too many assholes out there like Jim Boeheim who put the players secondary to their own egos.

I'm not sure I agree with this at all. I agree that that's how Calipari sells himself -- that he'll prepare recruits for the Draft better than anyone else. But I'm skeptical that's how it works out a lot of the time. I think a lot of the players who end up at Kentucky either don't improve at all or improve much less than their competitors at other universities. It's true that a lot of Calipari's recruits are high draft picks, but they would have been had they gone anywhere.

I don't think the Harrisons, James Young, Marcus Lee, Alex Poythress, Briscoe, to name just a few, improved their draft status at Kentucky. In fact, I'd argue their statuses regressed substantially. He's had some successes, to be sure, but the record is mixed at best. He's certainly not a master.

 

[Smash Williams]

I'm not sure I agree with this at all. I agree that that's how Calipari sells himself -- that he'll prepare recruits for the Draft better than anyone else. But I'm skeptical that's how it works out a lot of the time. I think a lot of the players who end up at Kentucky either don't improve at all or improve much less than their competitors at other universities. It's true that a lot of Calipari's recruits are high draft picks, but they would have been had they gone anywhere.

I don't think the Harrisons, James Young, Marcus Lee, Alex Poythress, Briscoe, to name just a few, improved their draft status at Kentucky. In fact, I'd argue their statuses regressed substantially. He's had some successes, to be sure, but the record is mixed at best. He's certainly not a master.

I don't think Calipari is completely transforming players in one or two seasons. With that said, no coach is going to improve the draft status of every high-profile recruit.

I picked out every Rivals 5-star recruit Calipari has signed at Kentucky to see how they fared in terms of being drafted. I picked one rankings service and selected an arbitrary rankings threshold for the sake of simplicity. It leaves out some Top 50 4-stars who did (Booker, Cauley-Stein) and didn't pan out. I was going for quick, not precise, but I think it gives us a fair idea.

I went ahead and included Murray, Labissiere, and Ulis as first-rounders, because they're universally projected as such for next month's draft. Counting those three, that makes 19 of 27 5-star recruits who were drafted in the first round.

It would be time-consuming to do that for every 5-star in the country over that span, especially since a lot of those guys have yet to enter the draft, but I'd bet anything they're not getting drafted in the first round at a 70.4% rate.

For the 2009 class, 11 of 25 Rivals 5-stars were drafted in the first round; that drops to 7 of 21 if you take out Kentucky players.

For the 2010 class, 13 of 27 Rivals 5-stars were drafted in the first round; that drops to 10 of 23 if you take out Kentucky players.

Kentucky's numbers may be skewed by a disproportionately high % of Top 5 or 10 guys, so it'd be interesting to look at just those recruits, too. For example, I count Kentucky going 12 of 17 on Top 10 recruits drafted in the first round. That may be close to the national average for Top 10 recruits, but it also means that a disproportionately high percentage of Kentucky's non-Top 10 5-stars (7 of 10) are first rounders (just looking at the non-Top 10 5-stars for 2009 and 2010, it's a lot more miss than hit). I suspect Kentucky stacks up well regardless of parameters.

Over an unusually large sample size for a single school, Kentucky puts a very high percentage of 5-stars in the first round. If you were an elite recruit, it would be hard to ignore those numbers. Cal may not coach you better than anyone else, but there is minimal risk of him tanking your draft stock.

 

[bgrch1350]

Marcus Lee transferring

"Marcus Lee informed us today that he is pulling his name out of the draft but has decided he is going to transfer to a school out west to be closer to his family," head coach John Calipari said. "We talked it through together and discussed the team next season, which he said had no bearing on his decision. I also told him he was a semester away from graduating. With that said, he was still adamant that, after the combine experience, a year off and regrouping would be the best thing. As always I support my players and their decisions."

That draft process much have been eye opening for him.

 

[stormspencer]

HAHA

Is that guy still coaching?

Nah, he is actually one of the regular, in-studio analyst on CBSSports Network....but he still has that thick Boston-Irish accent and he talks very fast.:ez-roll: