NBA Summer League Rosters

[BoulderSooner]

As a Lakers fan, the furthest I would go is D'Angelo + Randle, and that's only with long-term assurance from Westbrook that he'll stay. Without long-term assurance, I'd maybe part with D'Angelo in a straight up deal.

With the cap situation, and RW likely only being a one year rental for most teams, I think RW's trade value is much lower than most Thunder fans would like to accept. Maybe something like a Brown + Smart + 1st from Boston is about the most I could see them getting, and even then, it seems Ainge has been way too attached to his picks/assets.

apparently you think his value is lower than serge's

 

[WTSooner]

those are not close to comparable .... Russell and a 1st is not enough to get russ that is less than the thunder got for serge in the same situation ..



and actually the lakers getting westbrooks bird rights .. is a huge huge deal ..

Then OKC can lose him for nothing after this year. I don't care. I just can't think of a team that is going to give anywhere close to full price for him, given all of the circumstances.

 

[Smash Williams]

Minnesota received Andrew Wiggins and Thad Young for a one-year rental of Kevin Love.

Phoenix received two first round picks (one top-7 protected, one unprotected) for a two-month rental of Goran Dragic.

OKC received the #11 pick and Oladipo for a one-year rental of Serge Ibaka (with zero assurances that Ibaka will re-sign with Orlando).

The only one of those players whose value was in the same stratosphere as Westbrook's was Kevin Love. Everyone knew Minnesota was trying to move him, yet somehow Flip turned Love's "worthless" expiring contract into the #1 overall pick.

Crazy theory here, but it's possible that when a superstar is on the trade market, his team gauges the interest of teams that the star has indicated he'd be willing to play for and possibly commit long-term (sometimes with a wink-wink understanding), then those teams bid against each other because possessing that player's Bird rights gives them an advantage when the player hits free agency.

If you're the Celtics, what opportunity are you waiting for, if not a Westbrook trade? You're going to continue hoarding a bunch of future picks and under-22 players rather than making a push for another star after signing 30-year-old Al Horford (who, by the way, would still be in Atlanta had they not balked on maxing him out)? Boston could part with the 2017 Brooklyn pick and at least one other really valuable piece and still have plenty of ammo if yet another star comes on the trade market. As Ainge knows well, getting a second star on board makes it much easier to attract a third star. Boston's chances of signing Westbrook next summer are exponentially higher if he's had a year to play under Stevens and if Boston can offer Westbrook a fifth year. Perhaps they can sign Westbrook regardless, but if not, they waste a year of Horford's prime.

I find it hard to believe that after the last few summers, the Lakers would be arrogant enough to assume that they could land Westbrook without the ability to offer him a fifth year or an immediate shot at title contention.

You risk valuable assets now to improve your chances of signing Westbrook next summer because you need every advantage you can get when teams like the Spurs (who don't have the assets to trade for him now) make a run at him. With a year under Thibs and another year of development for their young core, Minnesota could be a very attractive destination next summer. There will be too much competition on the open market next summer for any one team without Westbrook's Bird rights to assume a significant advantage.

 

[WTSooner]

I'm working on the assumption that Westbrook knows where he wants to be for 2017-2018, and that is likely the Lakers.

CLE situation is different. One, they were in win now mode with Lebron coming back. Two, there weren't a bunch of rumors of Love wanting to go elsewhere. Matter of fact, I thought bought of that trade was Love agreeing to an extension. Maybe that was even just verbal. I don't recall the details.

If I thought there was any chance Westbrook would consider staying in Boston, I MIGHT consider it. But I don't think there is. And you have to think Boston knows that.

Boston is still chasing after a lot of good players thru trade. Cousins. Griffin. Butler. Rumor has it they really like Hayward too.

Boston trades all of that for Westbrook, and he leaves (which he will), then we've lost all of those assets for one season of Westbrook, or probably can't play along side our best player, Thomas. Not to mention what I noted earlier, which is that Westbrook doesn't really fit into the Stevens system, star player or not.

 

[BoulderSooner]

Then OKC can lose him for nothing after this year. I don't care. I just can't think of a team that is going to give anywhere close to full price for him, given all of the circumstances.

then how did okc get more than that for 1 year of ibaka?

 

[Smash Williams]

I'm working on the assumption that Westbrook knows where he wants to be for 2017-2018, and that is likely the Lakers.

CLE situation is different. One, they were in win now mode with Lebron coming back. Two, there weren't a bunch of rumors of Love wanting to go elsewhere. Matter of fact, I thought bought of that trade was Love agreeing to an extension. Maybe that was even just verbal. I don't recall the details.

If I thought there was any chance Westbrook would consider staying in Boston, I MIGHT consider it. But I don't think there is. And you have to think Boston knows that.

Boston is still chasing after a lot of good players thru trade. Cousins. Griffin. Butler. Rumor has it they really like Hayward too.

Boston trades all of that for Westbrook, and he leaves (which he will), then we've lost all of those assets for one season of Westbrook, or probably can't play along side our best player, Thomas. Not to mention what I noted earlier, which is that Westbrook doesn't really fit into the Stevens system, star player or not.

Is there anything substantive to back up the assumption that Westbrook is set on going to the Lakers? The Lakers are attached to every big free agent yet consistently strike out. I know the rumors are out there (just as they were for KD to the Wizards or Lakers), but no one with Woj-level credibility is substantiating them. Woj himself was dismissive of the idea last week.

Cleveland's situation with Love wasn't all that different from every team now interested in Westbrook. Anyone wanting to trade for Westbrook is in win-now mode. You don't trade for a soon-to-be 28-year-old Westbrook as a rebuilding centerpiece. Whether or not Love agreed to an extension was never confirmed, because such an agreement would have been illegal, but the fact that Love re-signed without even exploring other teams after a tumultuous first season in Cleveland strongly indicates that they had an under-the-table agreement. While I don't think anyone is getting a 100% commitment from Westbrook, any Westbrook trade would hinge upon the receiving team at least getting a strong indication of his interest in re-signing.

Westbrook has financial incentive for OKC to get him to a team with whom he would strongly consider re-signing. Next summer he'll be 28-going-on-29; given his heavy reliance on his athleticism, his game may fall off a cliff when he loses a step or two, so it makes sense for him to cash in for the full five years next summer, if possible. He's not going to age as gracefully as KD, who's more reliant on shooting ability and length.

I'm sure Ainge is exploring every trade option, but if OKC doesn't get a firm commitment from Westbrook this summer, then I think Westbrook is by far the most attainable star. Of the other guys you mentioned, none of their teams would be under as much pressure to trade those stars. Most of them are under contract for multiple seasons. Hayward and Griffin can opt out next summer, but they're both on highly competitive teams. Maybe the Clippers trade Griffin, but I don't think it would be motivated by their chances of re-signing him (good team, LA lifestyle, Bird rights on a 28-year-old high-flyer). I think Utah may be too good to dump Hayward; if healthy, the Jazz may push for 55 wins next season.

Thomas is a really good player, but no one is winning a title with him as the first- or second-best player. I don't believe that Ainge sees him as part of a title-contending Big 3. Like most of the roster, Thomas is a trade chip above all else.

This isn't college; NBA coaches mold their systems around star talents. I have no doubt that Brad Stevens can optimize Westbrook's skill set. If Stevens weren't that adaptable, Ainge wouldn't have hired him.

 

[WTSooner]

then how did okc get more than that for 1 year of ibaka?

I'm guessing Orlando feels pretty good about their chances of resigning Ibaka.

If not, and he walks for nothing, that will go down as a very dumb trade.

 

[WTSooner]

Oddly enough, I just saw my first somewhat legit info that suggests Boston may in fact be trying to trade for Westy.

I just hope if they do, they have a pretty good idea that he'll resign. To spend all this time building up assets to waste on one year of Westbrook would be devastating.

And for the record, I'm just not a big Westbrook fan. I think he has a bad attitude, and I don't care for pg's that take as many shots as he does. I personally don't see him as a championship level pg, but I'm sure a lot of folks here disagree.

 

[ChongoChingi]

Isaiah is starting today! Guess he isn't hurt anymore.

 

[Max Power]

then how did okc get more than that for 1 year of ibaka?

Because some GMs are better/smarter than others...

 

[skyvue]

Isaiah is starting today! Guess he isn't hurt anymore.

Rough first game for him. With six minutes remaining in the game, he's 0-5 from the field (0-1 from three), with two rebounds, six assists, three turnovers and no points.

I like those six assists, though.

Update: He scored his first two points with 5:47 remaining. Onward and upward...

 

[sperry]

Buddy has had a disaster of a summer league. I think the J.J. Redick comparisons are going to end up being spot on with him. Really good player, but he's not a star who can create his own offense in the league.

 

[skyvue]

Buddy has had a disaster of a summer league. I think the J.J. Redick comparisons are going to end up being spot on with him. Really good player, but he's not a star who can create his own offense in the league.

How exactly did his performance in Monday's game qualify as disastrous? In fact, he's improved in every game he's played so far. Way too early to write him off.

(Update: I didn't realize the Pelicans were playing now. He's having a so-so game so far, so the improve-every-game trend could end today. But then again, there's a full quarter to go, and he showed on Monday he can go on a tear.)

 

[sperry]

How exactly did his performance in Monday's game qualify as disastrous? In fact, he's improved in every game he's played so far. Way too early to write him off.

(Update: I didn't realize the Pelicans were playing now. He's having a so-so game so far, so the improve-every-game trend could end today. But then again, there's a full quarter to go, and he showed on Monday he can go on a tear.)

His overall stat line was nice, but he went on an insane tear in the third quarter. He's having big trouble creating offense.

 

[Eielson]

Minnesota received Andrew Wiggins and Thad Young for a one-year rental of Kevin Love.

I don't know if this was directed at me or not, but I did say I would give up D'Angelo Russell. D'Angelo, Ingram, and a 1st is a far steeper price than Wiggins. While technically a one-year rental, few people actually thought Love might leave Cleveland. Cleveland was a contender, whereas the Lakers might not even make the playoffs even with RW. Additionally, most years a max-contract player's options are limited to a few teams. This year and next year's cap raises allow nearly every team to be in play for a star.

I find it hard to believe that after the last few summers, the Lakers would be arrogant enough to assume that they could land Westbrook without the ability to offer him a fifth year or an immediate shot at title contention.

You risk valuable assets now to improve your chances of signing Westbrook next summer because you need every advantage you can get when teams like the Spurs (who don't have the assets to trade for him now) make a run at him. With a year under Thibs and another year of development for their young core, Minnesota could be a very attractive destination next summer. There will be too much competition on the open market next summer for any one team without Westbrook's Bird rights to assume a significant advantage.

If the Lakers trade away Russell, Ingram, and a first, how do you expect the Lakers to keep Westbrook? Sure, they have Bird Rights, but what are the odds that's enough to convince Westbrook he should play with Randle, Deng, and Mozgov?

 

[Eielson]

I can't see Ainge giving up essentially 3 top 6 picks for Westbrook. Not even sure they'd go after him. He doesn't really fit what Stevens tries to do on offense. And there is no way Westbrook would commit to an extension. So no. WAY too much.

I think RW might grow fond of the weaker East as Lebron has, and I'd put Boston strongly at #2 in the conference with him.

I'm unsure how you got 3 top 6 picks. They don't have to trade their best first rounder. Additionally, Smart may have been #6 two years ago, but he's on the verge of having almost no trade value at this time next offseason if he doesn't vastly improve. As an ESPN guy said, he plays elite defense, but he plays offense like he's guarding himself. Brown was #3, but I doubt many other teams would have picked him at that spot. If anything, I think the Thunder would be disappointed with this haul, but it might be the best they could get.

 

[Eielson]

apparently you think his value is lower than serge's

Russell and Ingram, with their rookie contracts, are each worth more individually than Oladipo, Sabonis, and Ilyasova combined. If the Lakers get a strong indication that RW wants to stay long-term, I'd consider including Randle, but not Ingram. Russell, Ingram, and a first is the kind of deal Presti would be foolish not to pull the trigger on even if RW was locked up for 3-4 more years.

 

[Smash Williams]

I don't know if this was directed at me or not, but I did say I would give up D'Angelo Russell.

The guy who rode the bench behind Jordan Clarkson and Lou Williams for half the season? Laker fans booed him just three months ago for not playing up to expectations and for sabotaging the personal life of a scrub player, but now he's the second coming after a few summer league games? What a generous offer!

Honestly, I think Russell is a valuable young player with a ton of potential whose development was stunted by Byron Scott, but the instant 180 from Laker fans is hilarious.

While technically a one-year rental, few people actually thought Love might leave Cleveland.

A month before Love became a free agent: http://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...-Kevin-Love-To-Leave-Cavaliers-In-Free-Agency

Additionally, most years a max-contract player's options are limited to a few teams. This year and next year's cap raises allow nearly every team to be in play for a star.

It's not just the cap raises; shorter contracts in the current CBA have increased cap flexibility. Numerous teams could have maxed out Love last summer, including the Blazers (his hometown team), Lakers, Celtics, Knicks, and Mavs. He didn't return to the Cavs for lack of options.

If the Lakers trade away Russell, Ingram, and a first, how do you expect the Lakers to keep Westbrook?

I wouldn't expect the Lakers to trade Russell, Ingram, and a first (the Lakers don't even have a first round pick to trade until 2021) for Westbrook. Then again, Jimmy Buss has shown a propensity to mortgage the future for short-term gains, so perhaps I shouldn't put it past the Lakers.

If I'm OKC, I want Ingram. Anything additional is too much (Russell) or too little (Lakers have no first round picks to trade, and their other young players are blah). Therein lies the problem: unless Westbrook insists that he'll only play for the Lakers, other teams are much better positioned to trade for him. That's why Boston has been identified as a potential trade partner for Westbrook, in spite of no reports of actual discussions between OKC and Boston. The NBA execs that Howard Beck talked to simply put two and two together: Boston has more trade assets than anyone else, and they can put together an attractive package without gutting their roster.

So either Jimmy Buss mortgages the farm and hopes the arrival of a superstar and a 45-win season is enough to justify his staying on as head of basketball ops, or Jimmy goes quietly into the night as the Lakers fully commit to a long-term rebuilding project.

Sure, they have Bird Rights, but what are the odds that's enough to convince Westbrook he should play with Randle, Deng, and Mozgov?

As with any similar deal, it would be contingent upon Westbrook expressing strong interest in re-signing (assuming the Lakers learned their lesson from the Howard trade). If Westbrook really wants to play with the Lakers, that's a 45-win team, which would make him a savior to Laker fans after what they've experienced the last three seasons (as opposed to a Howard-like scapegoat who shoulders the blame for a team with ridiculously high expectations). It's enough not only to sell Westbrook on staying home, but it makes the Lakers an attractive destination for free agents (FAs that are better than Mozgov).

 

[Smash Williams]

Oddly enough, I just saw my first somewhat legit info that suggests Boston may in fact be trying to trade for Westy.

I just hope if they do, they have a pretty good idea that he'll resign. To spend all this time building up assets to waste on one year of Westbrook would be devastating.

And for the record, I'm just not a big Westbrook fan. I think he has a bad attitude, and I don't care for pg's that take as many shots as he does. I personally don't see him as a championship level pg, but I'm sure a lot of folks here disagree.

Not that trading for Westbrook only to lose him wouldn't hurt, but "devastating" is overstating it a bit.

The Celtics have the 2017 Brooklyn pick swap, Brooklyn's 2018 first (no protection), the Clippers' 2019 first (top-14 protected), Memphis' 2019 first (top-8 protected), and all of their own future first round picks. It's not as if the Celtics would have to part with all of that and multiple rotation players just to pull off a Westbrook deal. As an OKC fan, I'd be happy with both Brooklyn picks and nothing else (aside from any required salary filler), but I don't even think the Celtics would have to part with both of those picks to put the best Westbrook offer on the table. Boston would have enough assets to still pull off a deal for another star.

Another thing to consider is the diversity of Boston's assets coupled with differences in other teams' trade needs. For example, if the Clippers were willing to trade Griffin, Doc would presumably be looking for veterans to complement CP3 and Jordan rather than draft picks. On the other hand, if OKC trades Westbrook, they're obviously looking to acquire future assets, while impactful veteran players hold far less value because such players would impede OKC's tanking efforts, thereby minimizing the value of OKC's own first round picks.

Ainge wouldn't trade for Westbrook without confidence that he re-signs, but he could also lock him up with one more big trade.

 

[BoulderSooner]

I don't know if this was directed at me or not, but I did say I would give up D'Angelo Russell. D'Angelo, Ingram, and a 1st is a far steeper price than Wiggins. While technically a one-year rental, few people actually thought Love might leave Cleveland. Cleveland was a contender, whereas the Lakers might not even make the playoffs even with RW. Additionally, most years a max-contract player's options are limited to a few teams. This year and next year's cap raises allow nearly every team to be in play for a star.



If the Lakers trade away Russell, Ingram, and a first, how do you expect the Lakers to keep Westbrook? Sure, they have Bird Rights, but what are the odds that's enough to convince Westbrook he should play with Randle, Deng, and Mozgov?

because they would likely also trade nick young and Williams as well and have enough room for a second max player next summer