Next head coach Porter Moser

[152219]

I see posts are still being made about the strength of the Big 12. I had a thread on this last year. I snagged this list from the thread.
http://ouhoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43537

Here is a list of Sagarin's rankings for as far back as I can find (updated with '21).

'98 7th
'99 5th
‘00 5th
‘01 5th
‘02 5th
‘03 1st
‘04 3rd
‘05 3rd
‘06 7th
‘07 2nd
‘08 2nd
‘09 2nd
‘10 1st
‘11 3rd
‘12 2nd
‘13 3rd
‘14 2nd
‘15 1st
‘16 1st
‘17 1st
‘18 1st
‘19 1st
'20 3rd
'21 2nd

 

[Stikboy]

To me it didn't feel like the Big 12 was near as tough this year. There were three horrible teams that were(should have been)6 gimmes(TCU, ISU, KSU). The usual juggernaut Kansas was average. Baylor really carried the conference and Texas and OSU were better than the last couple of years and Tech was OK. I think performances in the Big 12/SEC challenge and NCAA tournament kind of brought a little reality to just where the Big 12 was this year.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Kelvin didn’t meet those expectations that you just rattled off. We finished top 15 probably 5 times under kelvin. As well as he did in conference, he was pretty mediocre out of conference if we are honest. Tubbs would be the only coach to meet those expectations.

What did kelvin not meet that I stated?

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Fantastic post, Sky. Big 12 is another animal these days.

I don't really agree with that.

Back then, as I recall (and my memory may be wrong), Texas was better, kansas was still kansas, osu was better, missouri was always tough, iowa state was better

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Having expectations of a top #10 program, when we are not, and being disappointed/angry in anything less is a recipe for failure. We should have that as a goal for where we want to be, but cannot demand that is where our coach should be or be deemed mediocre or a failure.

I don't think anyone expects us to be a top 10 program.
But there is no reason we shouldn't be a top 25 program and compete for conference titles.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

In an interview with the Thunder a couple years ago he called the time in Florida winning Champioinships the most depressing time of his life. He's not leaving the NBA back for college.

isn't that because he lost a kid or had a coach lose a kid (or both)?

 

[red recluse]

just want to give a big thank you to isu for going winless and setting the dominoes in motion for moser to be here.

 

[TINY]

Consistently fighting for the big 12 regular season title - I’ll give kelvin this even though he only won 1 big 12 regular season title. +

having a really good home court record -kelvin had a good home record, +

competing in the big 12 tourney - this was kelvin’s masterpiece while at ou. 3 in a row +

consistently having a top 4 seed in the ncaa tourney - wouldn’t say he was consistently a top 4 but it’s debatable. I gave him benefit of doubt in the fighting for conference title, so going to go the other way here.. -

and making it to the ssweet 16 most years - made the sweet 16 only 3 times. Not nearly enough by your standards.furthermore he lost to lesser seeds with disturbing regularity (Milwaukee, manhatten, Utah, Indiana state, Indiana, et al).
-
Basically, not celebrating being ranked in the top 25 would be a good start. Kelvin finished top 20 5 times per soonerstats. -

By your own standards, kelvin only hit about 50% of your marks.

 

[TINY]

I don't really agree with that.

Back then, as I recall (and my memory may be wrong), Texas was better, kansas was still kansas, osu was better, missouri was always tough, iowa state was better

Texas and osu were certainly better and mizzou was very tough. Iowa state was good for most of the past decade with the exception of the last few prohm years, though. Nebraska, Colorado, kstate, Baylor, A&M were putrid during kelvin’s years.

The Kenpom ratings above tell the story. Big12 has been the toughest conference in the country over the past decade.

 

[TINY]

I see posts are still being made about the strength of the Big 12. I had a thread on this last year. I snagged this list from the thread.
http://ouhoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43537

Here is a list of Sagarin's rankings for as far back as I can find (updated with '21).

'98 7th
'99 5th
‘00 5th
‘01 5th
‘02 5th
‘03 1st
‘04 3rd
‘05 3rd
‘06 7th
‘07 2nd
‘08 2nd
‘09 2nd
‘10 1st
‘11 3rd
‘12 2nd
‘13 3rd
‘14 2nd
‘15 1st
‘16 1st
‘17 1st
‘18 1st
‘19 1st
'20 3rd
'21 2nd

The difference is staggering. Great post.

 

[WichitaSooner]

The difference is staggering. Great post.

It is a great post and the reality is obvious to anyone who isn’t so biased that they can’t acknowledge something plain as day. But there are certain posters who fear that it slights Kelvin if they don’t pretend as if his OU teams played an NBA team every night in the 90s and 2000s.

 

[IndySooner]

It is a great post and the reality is obvious to anyone who isn’t so biased that they can’t acknowledge something plain as day. But there are certain posters who fear that it slights Kelvin if they don’t pretend as if his OU teams played an NBA team every night in the 90s and 2000s.

To be fair, though, as his teams got really good, the conference elevated as well. That 2003 season the Big 12 was probably the best the conference has ever been.

 

[WTSooner]

To be fair, though, as his teams got really good, the conference elevated as well. That 2003 season the Big 12 was probably the best the conference has ever been.

Exactly. That is why this argument is nonsense.

The Big 12 put two teams in the Final 4 in both 2002 and 2003. Three separate teams. And a fourth team made the Final 4 the following season (2004).

The top of the Big 12 was an absolute blood bath at that time, but because the bottom couple of teams were God awful instead of just really bad, let's create a talking point that shouldn't exist.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

By your own standards, kelvin only hit about 50% of your marks.

fair enough.

Top 6 consistently is probably more accurate.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

The difference is staggering. Great post.

How do they come up with these rankings? What goes into them?

 

[WichitaSooner]

To be fair, though, as his teams got really good, the conference elevated as well. That 2003 season the Big 12 was probably the best the conference has ever been.

Again, this is not an argument about whether Kelvin was/is a good coach. He is great. But even the best coach on the planet will win more games against a weaker league than he will against a tougher league. It shouldn't be difficult to accept the fact that there were far more "easy" wins on the schedule during KS's tenure as a whole than there have been in the past decade.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

It is a great post and the reality is obvious to anyone who isn’t so biased that they can’t acknowledge something plain as day. But there are certain posters who fear that it slights Kelvin if they don’t pretend as if his OU teams played an NBA team every night in the 90s and 2000s.

Well in actuality, just because the big 12 has been the best conference over the last decade doesn't really mean it has been better than it was in the 2000s.

If we are looking at it unbiasedly, we would need to know how those rankings are calculated and have a way to compare the strength of the big 12 then vs now. Not the strength of the big 12 compared to the other conference then vs now.

 

[CoachTalk]

Eggplant measuring contest over?

 

[WTSooner]

fair enough.

Top 6 consistently is probably more accurate.

That is my goal as far as seeding. Top 6 essentially means a top 25 team.

 

[skyvue]

Exactly. That is why this argument is nonsense.

It's not nonsense at all. The poster who raised the topic was touting Kelvin's success in conference. That a couple of teams made it to the Elite Eight or even the Final Four doesn't mean it was a tough conference top to bottom. Neither do (with all respect to my fellow posters) vague recollections regarding conference strength.

I'll reiterate: Kruger played an average of eight ranked conference teams per season in his 10 years at OU. He played seven or more ranked conference teams in nine -- count' em, 9 -- of his 10 seasons.

Sampson averaged 4.2 ranked conference teams per season over his 12 years. In only one of those 12 seasons did he face as many as seven ranked teams.

It's not a knock on Sampson -- the conference was what it was. But relative to the rest of the country, the Big 12 has been better over the past 10 years than it was for all but a couple of years during Sampson's tenure.