Next head coach Porter Moser

[BoulderSooner]

That is my goal as far as seeding. Top 6 essentially means a top 25 team.

i think this is a very reasonable and achievable goal ..

 

[SoonerinNC]

Face it. The Big 12 has upgraded their coaching staffs since Kelvin was here. Add to that the exceptional improvement of Drew.

Also Nebraska, Colorado and A&M were never powerhouses.

 

[Eielson]

Face it. The Big 12 has upgraded their coaching staffs since Kelvin was here. Add to that the exceptional improvement of Drew.

The bottom of the conference is stronger, but I don't think the top really is. OSU has taken a nosedive, yet Lon still lost far more to them than Kelvin. Similar story for UT.

 

[pnkranger]

The bottom of the conference is stronger, but I don't think the top really is. OSU has taken a nosedive, yet Lon still lost far more to them than Kelvin. Similar story for UT.

I think you're not looking at it clearly.

Texas is better
West Virginia is MUCH better
Baylor is light years better
Texas Tech is light years better
OU is about the same
Kansas is a little worse (let's be fair, they could have won the national title last year)

OSU is a little worse
TCU is about the same

Kansas State and Iowa State are worse (but have been better until this year)

 

[Max Power]

I think you're not looking at it clearly.

Texas is better
West Virginia is MUCH better
Baylor is light years better
Texas Tech is light years better
OU is about the same
Kansas is a little worse (let's be fair, they could have won the national title last year)

OSU is a little worse
TCU is about the same

Kansas State and Iowa State are worse (but have been better until this year)

So the question is, with everyone getting better, why haven’t we?

 

[pnkranger]

So the question is, with everyone getting better, why haven’t we?

Because we have had more sustained success over the last 40 years than any team in the Big 8/Big 12 except Kansas? Hard to go up from 2nd unless you can dethrone Kansas.

 

[Eielson]

I think you're not looking at it clearly.

Texas is better
West Virginia is MUCH better
Baylor is light years better
Texas Tech is light years better
OU is about the same
Kansas is a little worse (let's be fair, they could have won the national title last year)

OSU is a little worse
TCU is about the same

Kansas State and Iowa State are worse (but have been better until this year)

....WHAT?!

TCU and WVU weren't even close to the BIG XII for Sampson.

Tech has been better for the last 5 years, but were worse for the first 5 years of Lon's tenure. Tech had some solid teams under Knight.

OSU is a complete dumpster fire compared to the Sutton years. UT was way better during Kelvin's tenure as well.

 

[skyvue]

The bottom of the conference is stronger, but I don't think the top really is. OSU has taken a nosedive, yet Lon still lost far more to them than Kelvin. Similar story for UT.

Kruger actually had a better record against oswho than Sampson, though Sampson did better against texas. Lon went 12-8 (13-9, if you include Big 12 tourney games) against oswho; Kelvin finished 12-12 (12-14, if you count Big 12 tourney games).

 

[scrybe]

Kruger actually had a better record against oswho than Sampson, though Sampson did better against texas. Lon went 12-8 (13-9, if you include Big 12 tourney games) against oswho; Kelvin finished 12-12 (12-14, if you count Big 12 tourney games).

LOL, sky. Seems like you've volunteered to go back and clean up a bunch of errant memories about the Big 12/Big 8 in years past.

 

[Eielson]

Kruger actually had a better record against oswho than Sampson, though Sampson did better against texas. Lon went 12-8 (13-9, if you include Big 12 tourney games) against oswho; Kelvin finished 12-12 (12-14, if you count Big 12 tourney games).

I'm impressed you fact-checked that. Regardless, the main point was that OSU was a far better program under Sutton than they are now. GIA used to be one of the hardest places in the country to win. Lon lost some inexcusable games against Boynton.

 

[NickZepp]

Except A&M and Baylor were trash back then. And that was 4 games we played against them. The league overall demanded fewer games against top teams every year. The Big 12 has been one of the 2-3 best conferences over the last 5 years.

It was still a lot tougher to beat Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Iowa State most of those years. In 02 when we went to the Final 4. Kansas went to the Final 4. Missouri went to the Elite 8(against OU) Texas went to the Sweet 16. The next year 3 teams went at least the Sweet 16 or better, and 2 to the Final 4 again. OU, KU, Texas. Not sure we'll see the Big 12 do that in back to back years again.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

It was still a lot tougher to beat Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Iowa State most of those years. In 02 when we went to the Final 4. Kansas went to the Final 4. Missouri went to the Elite 8(against OU) Texas went to the Sweet 16. The next year 3 teams went at least the Sweet 16 or better, and 2 to the Final 4 again. OU, KU, Texas. Not sure we'll see the Big 12 do that in back to back years again.

I agree

 

[skyvue]

It was still a lot tougher to beat Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Iowa State most of those years. In 02 when we went to the Final 4. Kansas went to the Final 4. Missouri went to the Elite 8(against OU) Texas went to the Sweet 16. The next year 3 teams went at least the Sweet 16 or better, and 2 to the Final 4 again. OU, KU, Texas. Not sure we'll see the Big 12 do that in back to back years again.

Sampson was in Norman 12 years -- a couple of seasons, impressive as they were for the top teams, don't really tell the story of the conference during his tenure at OU. After all, we played ISU just once per season back then, KU just once, Mizzou just once.

Sampson's average of 4.2 ranked conference opponents per year -- and in a 12-team conference -- compared to the average of 8 ranked opponents Kruger faced (in a 10-team conference) paints, I think, a more accurate picture (along with the conference rankings someone else posted) of the relative strength of the conference then and now.

For example, of the 14 regular-season matchups Sampson had with ISU, they were ranked just five times (three of those instances were #22 or lower). That doesn't mean they weren't a solid program then, of course, but perhaps not quite as good as we recall them being. Missouri was ranked just three times out of the 14 regular-season games Sampson coached against them.

By contrast, in 22 regular-season meetings, texas was ranked 12 times and for all but two of those games, they were #20 or higher.

 

[Eielson]

Are there still people here that actually believe Kruger is the same caliber coach that Sampson is? It's senseless.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Are there still people here that actually believe Kruger is the same caliber coach that Sampson is? It's senseless.

I don’t recall anyone making that argument. Two things can be simultaneously true: Kelvin was a better coach, and the league wasn’t as good during his time in Norman.

 

[sheepdogs1]

One thing to take in to account is whether the ranking of teams today was on the same level as in years past with respect to accuracy. Thus there are 3 possibilities such as they are one in the same, better, or worse.

 

[IndySooner]

Are there still people here that actually believe Kruger is the same caliber coach that Sampson is? It's senseless.

Huge Sampson fan here and I think Kruger is every bit the coach Sampson is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[WTSooner]

It was still a lot tougher to beat Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Iowa State most of those years. In 02 when we went to the Final 4. Kansas went to the Final 4. Missouri went to the Elite 8(against OU) Texas went to the Sweet 16. The next year 3 teams went at least the Sweet 16 or better, and 2 to the Final 4 again. OU, KU, Texas. Not sure we'll see the Big 12 do that in back to back years again.

Yep. And how many games did OU lose that entire season, playing against all that talent?

Good teams win games, regardless of "how good the league is."

 

[Eielson]

Huge Sampson fan here and I think Kruger is every bit the coach Sampson is.

Kelvin has had 70% winning percentage at all 3 of his stops since 1995, which is better than any of Lon's 6 stops. He is also 68% or better in conference for all those stops, which Lon also has never attained. They aren't in the same caliber.

 

[CoachTalk]

STOP HIJACKING THREADS. Go to the other board pages and ruin those threads. PLEASE