Next Year's Roster

[WTSooner]

I seem to see teams losing players to the portal or graduation annually. Georgia sure seemed to do okay after Justin Fields left. Caleb is great, but losing him shouldn't have caused us to crater to below .500.

It also shouldn't be the reason we fielded a defense ranked 55th by ESPN (efficiency).

With Grinch it was 39, 5, and 44 in the three years prior.

 

[skyvue]

I seem to see teams losing players to the portal or graduation annually. Georgia sure seemed to do okay after Justin Fields left. Caleb is great, but losing him shouldn't have caused us to crater to below .500.

It wasn't just CW--we lost Rattler too. We had no -- count 'em, zero -- legitimate QBs on campus when BV took over.

 

[soonerchuck]

0%. They couldnt unseat a walk on and even with a foul prone starter at 5 that makes the walk on play extra mins...

I say that, but then Blunder Moser didnt manage oweh very well this year...

Your reference (and it’s implication) to Godwin as a walk-on who a freshman (Northweather) that is worth a darn should have been able to beat out is quite insulting to both Northweather and Godwin. Technically true that Godwin is a walk-on but he had 2 good years of experience (52 games played, 17 starts) at Wofford college/University in SC) (not a P5 conf but a top BB school in their conf) and he was wiiling to play for us without a scolly since none were available that late in the season. Your evaluation of future worth of Northweather’s skill is apparently without personal knowledge as to the details about what went into the decision to redshirt him. I believe Yaya was at that time still in the mix as an experienced player who could be a backup at the C position. You seem to see the roll of a fan being an evaluator who tears down those who are not living up to your high standards so the coach can replace them ASAP with readily available 4 & 5 star players from the portal.

 

[TINY]

That isn't the current day meaning, or the meaning within the context of my statement. But thanks for the history lesson.

The offense wasn't the problem this year, it was the defense. They were God-awful at times. BV and the new staff and scheme were supposed to help that, yet the last game of the regular season saw them give up 48 points in regulation to a not very good TT team.

And if you are claiming it a talent issue, guess this year won't be any better because they are going to return starters at all but a couple of positions.

percent agree about Ou football last year. And Roof is just a terrible coach. We have seen him fail at every stop he’s ever been. He was an embarrassingly bad hire by BV.

 

[TINY]

It wasn't just CW--we lost Rattler too. We had no -- count 'em, zero -- legitimate QBs on campus when BV took over.

CW was on the team when Bv got here. He even played in the bowl game. BV had way more opportunity to keep CW around than moser had to keep guys like Manek, harmon, et al. Ou football is a top 5 job in the country. 6-7 (3-6 in big12) is never acceptable at ou. If ou doesn’t win 9-10 games this year with the easiest regular season schedule in decades, I am going to have major concerns about this staff.

 

[skyvue]

OU also lost two other five-stars in Latrell McCutchin and Mario Williams to the portal, along with Haselwood, Stogner and Wease.

The Sooners also lost Perrion Winfrey, Nick Bonitto, Brian Asamoah, Isaiah Thomas, Jeremiah Hall, Gabe Brkic, Kennedy Brooks, Marquis Hayes, Tyrese Robinson and Delarrin Turner-Yell, among others, to the 2022 draft--and most, if not all of them (can't recall for sure) were early departures.

The truth is, both the 2021 team and the 2022 squad were just a handful of plays away from a reversal of their respective fortunes, which paints the '22 team in a better light and the '21 squad in a worse one.

I was very frustrated during the football season, but there's a huge difference between BV and PM--BV had a top 10 recruiting in his first cycle, keeping many commitments and bringing in others, along with some quality transfers. His second recruiting cycle, even after going 6-7, he brought in many highly rated transfers and a top 5 recruiting class.

When Moser comes close to matching that level of talent acquisition, I'll give him his due, and happily so. But I'm not holding my breath for it and I'm guessing no one else on this board is either.

 

[skyvue]

CW was on the team when Bv got here. He even played in the bowl game. BV had way more opportunity to keep CW around than moser had to keep guys like Manek, harmon, et al. Ou football is a top 5 job in the country. 6-7 (3-6 in big12) is never acceptable at ou. If ou doesn’t win 9-10 games this year with the easiest regular season schedule in decades, I am going to have major concerns about this staff.

It's a reasonably fair point, though most observers felt--at the time and certainly in retrospect--that CW was just playing PR games and stringing OU along and was actually a goner from the jump. In any case, one could easily state that Moser had as good a shot at keeping Williams, to name one example, as BV did keeping CW. And think what a difference Alondes could have made for this year's squad.

 

[Eielson]

I seem to see teams losing players to the portal or graduation annually. Georgia sure seemed to do okay after Justin Fields left. Caleb is great, but losing him shouldn't have caused us to crater to below .500.

The Spencer Rattler-led team had to play to the final whistle against Tulane, Nebraska, and WVU. And was getting massacred by UT. We had already seen what this team looked like without Caleb, and it wasn't pretty. The team underperformed last year, but taking too much stock in a coach's first season is a rookie mistake. There are countless examples to back this up.

Justin Fields never really played at UGA, so I don't see how that's applicable.
LSU has top 10 talent every year, and they didn't immediately recover when Burrow left. Same for Clemson and Watson. Even if Fields was an All-American starter for UGA, it still wouldn't be the same unless ALL of their QBs left, as BV didn't inherit anybody at the position. Not even an incoming freshman.

 

[Eielson]

It also shouldn't be the reason we fielded a defense ranked 55th by ESPN (efficiency).

With Grinch it was 39, 5, and 44 in the three years prior.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WinfPe00.htm
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AsamBr00.htm
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BoniNi00.htm
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/ThomIs01.htm

 

[Boom Soon]

Venables was a first year head coach last year. I didn't expect him to be a great head coach right off the bat. He clearly made some mistakes. Maybe he was a tad overwhelmed. I don't fault him if that was the case. Next year will be much more telling on what he can do. When he has a full season and offseason with his guys.

Moser, on the other hand has been coaching for over twenty years. He should know how to evaluate talent and assemble a roster by now. He should be better at preparing his team by now. He should be better at keeping assistant coaches by now. He should have better in game management by now.

It's not fair to compare Venables to Moser at all. One guy had zero head coaching experience when the season started, the other had decades worth of experience.

 

[WTSooner]

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WinfPe00.htm
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AsamBr00.htm
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BoniNi00.htm
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/ThomIs01.htm

I already dug up the stats on another board (not doing it again), but Winfrey and Asamoah were replaced rather easily in terms of production. I agree we missed Bonitto and Thomas in terms of a pure pass rush.

My question is, why couldn't the current staff develop anybody at those spots/positions during the year? Why is Redmond showing out at the combined, but never really stood out on the field (I know he had SOME injuries, but not all season). That was the calling the card of this staff, being able to scheme and develop lesser players, and we saw none of it.

 

[allday92]

I already dug up the stats on another board (not doing it again), but Winfrey and Asamoah were replaced rather easily in terms of production. I agree we missed Bonitto and Thomas in terms of a pure pass rush.

My question is, why couldn't the current staff develop anybody at those spots/positions during the year? Why is Redmond showing out at the combined, but never really stood out on the field (I know he had SOME injuries, but not all season). That was the calling the card of this staff, being able to scheme and develop lesser players, and we saw none of it.

Not sure if you subscribe to the FootballBrainiacs, but they've had some posts on why the defense has struggled. Grinch's schemes were very basic. The football IQ of the players was comically low. Danny Stutsman is a prime example of that. Venables' scheme is more complex and requires the players to make various reads that they just didn't know how to do and weren't taught how under the previous coaching staff. Year 2 should be better.

 

[skyvue]

We did see progress in some players--Stutsman is one example.

 

[WTSooner]

Not sure if you subscribe to the FootballBrainiacs, but they've had some posts on why the defense has struggled. Grinch's schemes were very basic. The football IQ of the players was comically low. Danny Stutsman is a prime example of that. Venables' scheme is more complex and requires the players to make various reads that they just didn't know how to do and weren't taught how under the previous coaching staff. Year 2 should be better.

I don't really buy into that. Some of the guys playing had more time under BV and their previous school (if they transferred, like Lawrence) than they did under Grinch. And football is football. Just because Grinch's system may have been simple, these kids have been exposed to different systems and ideas their entire life. You can also make the argument that if that is true to a large extent, BV failed the kids by not simplifying his system some this first year, which would again not necessarily point to us having a lack of talent, but rather a coach that didn't adjust to best utilize that talent.

BV can go on to have all of the success in the world at OU, and that won't necessarily mean he couldn't have done things differently with the defense last year.

 

[Swans]

percent agree about Ou football last year. And Roof is just a terrible coach. We have seen him fail at every stop he’s ever been. He was an embarrassingly bad hire by BV.

Especially in 2010 when he was the defensive coordinator for the National Champion Auburn Tigers that held Oregon’s offense to its worst performance that season.

 

[Eielson]

And football is football.

They actually get a little more advanced than that at the college level.

:ez-roll:

 

[TINY]

Especially in 2010 when he was the defensive coordinator for the National Champion Auburn Tigers that held Oregon’s offense to its worst performance that season.

That was probably his best year ever. Their defense was ok that year but not great. Cam newton was the reason they won the title.

And Roof was fired the next year.

 

[allday92]

I don't really buy into that. Some of the guys playing had more time under BV and their previous school (if they transferred, like Lawrence) than they did under Grinch. And football is football. Just because Grinch's system may have been simple, these kids have been exposed to different systems and ideas their entire life. You can also make the argument that if that is true to a large extent, BV failed the kids by not simplifying his system some this first year, which would again not necessarily point to us having a lack of talent, but rather a coach that didn't adjust to best utilize that talent.

BV can go on to have all of the success in the world at OU, and that won't necessarily mean he couldn't have done things differently with the defense last year.

That's where we'll disagree. Success isn't always linear, sometimes you have to take a step back to take significant strides forward. Why install a defense you know isn't good enough at the highest levels?

 

[WTSooner]

That's where we'll disagree. Success isn't always linear, sometimes you have to take a step back to take significant strides forward. Why install a defense you know isn't good enough at the highest levels?

My answer to that would be another questions:

How good of a coach are you if the only defense you can run and have success with is ultra-hard to coach and learn?

Nobody expected a NC or a CFP birth last year. But I sure as heck expected to not give up 48 points in regulation to a mediocre TT team last year. Big 12 in general was down, and we made some of them look much better than they were. Again, BV's defense shouldn't require 100% knowledge and perfection of execution to have success against the schedule we played last year. I firmly believe that.

 

[Eielson]

That's where we'll disagree. Success isn't always linear, sometimes you have to take a step back to take significant strides forward. Why install a defense you know isn't good enough at the highest levels?

So many message board people say they want to rip the band-aid off, but so few actually lack the patience and discipline to do it. Better to lose games in year 1 than year 3.