Next Year's Roster

[Eielson]

We've beat to death the fact that Bob Stoops won 7 games in year 1, Kirby Smart won 8, Saban won 7 (LSU) and 8 (Alabama), etc. We also occasionally talk about guys like Coker that succeeded in year 1 and then rode their program into irrelevance.

But here's a couple new ones. Mike Norvell won 8 games and missed bowl games in his first two season at FSU, but just finished top 10 with expectations of repeating that next year. Chip Kelly won 10 games and missed bowl games in each of his first three seasons at UCLA. He's won 17 in the last two years. Both guys just signed contract extensions this offseason.

Not saying those guys are legends, but it's entirely possible to struggle the first couple seasons and still have success.

 

[WichitaSooner]

So many message board people say they want to rip the band-aid off, but so few actually lack the patience and discipline to do it. Better to lose games in year 1 than year 3.

What was the band-aid covering at OU? Winning 10-12 games and constantly the conference title and regularly making the playoff?

 

[allday92]

My answer to that would be another questions:

How good of a coach are you if the only defense you can run and have success with is ultra-hard to coach and learn?

Nobody expected a NC or a CFP birth last year. But I sure as heck expected to not give up 48 points in regulation to a mediocre TT team last year. Big 12 in general was down, and we made some of them look much better than they were. Again, BV's defense shouldn't require 100% knowledge and perfection of execution to have success against the schedule we played last year. I firmly believe that.

If you know this defense is needed at the highest levels to beat teams like Georgia and Alabama, you teach it now and deal with the growing pains. Venables has had success with it and won multiple national championships with it at Clemson.

 

[Eielson]

What was the band-aid covering at OU?

The defense that got massacred by UGA, Alabama, and LSU.

 

[allday92]

What was the band-aid covering at OU? Winning 10-12 games and constantly the conference title and regularly making the playoff?

Elite quarterback play was covering up a lot of deficiencies. Ever since Lincoln took over we were taking a step back each year:
2017: Competitive playoff loss to Georgia
2018: Blown out by Bama in playoff
2019: Absolutely disrespected by LSU in playoff
2020: Didn't make the playoff
2021: Didn't even make the Big 12 championship game.

Other issues:
- Poor strength and conditioning, probably shouldn't have hired a cross-fit guy to be in charge of developing athletes at OU.
- Had a career linebackers coach in charge of the secondary
- Ran a defense that was entirely too dependent on turning the ball over to be successful
- Could not figure out how to beat Iowa St./K-State/Baylor's umbrella coverage defense
- Below average recruiting for OU on the defensive side of the ball.
- Most importantly what Lincoln failed to realize is that he needed to be the CEO of the program, not just the OC/playcaller/QB coach.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Elite quarterback play was covering up a lot of deficiencies. Ever since Lincoln took over we were taking a step back each year:
2017: Competitive playoff loss to Georgia
2018: Blown out by Bama in playoff
2019: Absolutely disrespected by LSU in playoff
2020: Didn't make the playoff
2021: Didn't even make the Big 12 championship game.

Other issues:
- Poor strength and conditioning, probably shouldn't have hired a cross-fit guy to be in charge of developing athletes at OU.
- Had a career linebackers coach in charge of the secondary
- Ran a defense that was entirely too dependent on turning the ball over to be successful
- Could not figure out how to beat Iowa St./K-State/Baylor's umbrella coverage defense
- Below average recruiting for OU on the defensive side of the ball.
- Most importantly what Lincoln failed to realize is that he needed to be the CEO of the program, not just the OC/playcaller/QB coach.

I always giggle at the strength and conditioning talk. Were you and all the people who complain about that in the workouts? Did you see any difference last season? Why had the program slipped before the guru left the first time around?

I'd say last season, our offense couldn't consistently beat any defense. And our defense was worse than ever. BV came in preaching discipline, yet we showed no strides there.

Again, I am not a Riley fan. We may never have won a title under him. But I have serious doubts if Venables will ever get us even to the level Riley had us at.

 

[WTSooner]

If you know this defense is needed at the highest levels to beat teams like Georgia and Alabama, you teach it now and deal with the growing pains. Venables has had success with it and won multiple national championships with it at Clemson.

Again, I disagree. It doesn't have to be that way. Plenty of coaches install their system over multiple years. Not like I'm suggesting spreading it over 5 years. I just think a different way of going about it could have created a better season last year. Does that help in the long run? Who knows. Maybe we land that one additional great recruit that we'll wish we had a few seasons from now.

Plenty of great coaches have said that they didn't install everything right off the bat though.

And it wasn't BV's defense that won that those titles. He may have played a huge part in getting them there, but here are the points they gave up in those big games, win or lose:

2021 - They gave up 49 to tOSU.
2020 - They gave up 42 to LSU.
2019 - They gave up 16 to Bama (great D).
2018 - They gave up 24 in a low scoring postseason to Bama.
2017 - They gave up 31 to Bama.
2016 - They gave up 45 to Bama.

In six games I'd say:
3 bad ones
1 not great one
2 pretty good ones

The myth that the BV defense somehow consistently shut out the top offenses they faced is just that, a myth. I'm excited he is our HC, I think he has a lot of potential, but he built a reputation on beating up on bad ACC offenses. His results against top 15 type offenses isn't really that great, even with otherwise good Clemson defenses.

 

[soonerchuck]

Elite quarterback play was covering up a lot of deficiencies. Ever since Lincoln took over we were taking a step back each year:
2017: Competitive playoff loss to Georgia
2018: Blown out by Bama in playoff
2019: Absolutely disrespected by LSU in playoff
2020: Didn't make the playoff
2021: Didn't even make the Big 12 championship game.

Other issues:
- Poor strength and conditioning, probably shouldn't have hired a cross-fit guy to be in charge of developing athletes at OU.
- Had a career linebackers coach in charge of the secondary
- Ran a defense that was entirely too dependent on turning the ball over to be successful
- Could not figure out how to beat Iowa St./K-State/Baylor's umbrella coverage defense
- Below average recruiting for OU on the defensive side of the ball.
- Most importantly what Lincoln failed to realize is that he needed to be the CEO of the program, not just the OC/playcaller/QB coach.

Your post shows a great understanding of our weaknesses during the Lincoln years. Well done

 

[BoulderSooner]

Noland was a top 100 guy.

i didn't include that year on purpose because while noland committed and signed originally with lon he also commited to and stayed with Porter .. (and he 100% didn't have to)

 

[Eielson]

And it wasn't BV's defense that won that those titles.

2016 Semifinal: 0 points (tOSU/Meyer)
2016 Championship: 31 points (Alabama/Saban)

2018 Semifinal: 3 points (Notre Dame/Kelly)
2018 Championship: 16 points (Alabama/Saban)
- Sidenote: 2018 Alabama scored 21 points IN THE FIRST QUARTER against OU in the semifinal

In those two championships, they gave up just 50 points in 4 games. That's 12.5 points per game in the playoffs. Saying that BV's defenses didn't win those championships is indefensibly wrong.

OU's defense on the other hand...

2015 Clemson 37
2017 UGA 54
2018 Alabama 45
2019 LSU 63

That's an average of 49.75 points given up per game, and two of those teams really let off the gas, or it could have been much worse. 2017 UGA wasn't even a good offense by playoff standards.

 

[Stikboy]

Elite quarterback play was covering up a lot of deficiencies. Ever since Lincoln took over we were taking a step back each year:
2017: Competitive playoff loss to Georgia
2018: Blown out by Bama in playoff
2019: Absolutely disrespected by LSU in playoff
2020: Didn't make the playoff
2021: Didn't even make the Big 12 championship game.

Other issues:
- Poor strength and conditioning, probably shouldn't have hired a cross-fit guy to be in charge of developing athletes at OU.
- Had a career linebackers coach in charge of the secondary
- Ran a defense that was entirely too dependent on turning the ball over to be successful
- Could not figure out how to beat Iowa St./K-State/Baylor's umbrella coverage defense
- Below average recruiting for OU on the defensive side of the ball.
- Most importantly what Lincoln failed to realize is that he needed to be the CEO of the program, not just the OC/playcaller/QB coach.

Yep. I didn't want to engage on a basketball board, but yes, you are all over it.

 

[OULad]

WTF does any of this have to do with Basketball. Take the football talk to another board.

 

[Eielson]

And our defense was worse than ever. BV came in preaching discipline, yet we showed no strides there.

I understand being disappointed by last season, and even having questions about Venables as a head coach, but I can't take anybody seriously if they're questioning Venables' ability to coach defense. How many decades does he need as proof?

 

[WTSooner]

I understand being disappointed by last season, and even having questions about Venables as a head coach, but I can't take anybody seriously if they're questioning Venables' ability to coach defense. How many decades does he need as proof?

Not every situation is the same. Is it not possible that it could be easier for him to be successful as Clemson's DC and not as OU's HC? Is that REALLY super far fetched? It's not.

BV was the DC at OU once before and didn't do too well. OU fans wanted him gone, right or wrong. BV learned and got better, but being able to build something at one school at a point in time doesn't automatically mean he'll be able to replicate that here at OU, now. It just doesn't. He has better odds than some Joe Blow off the street, but I've seen plenty of coaches have a lot of success somewhere only to move and not be able to replicate it. Heck, that describes our current basketball coach so far.

 

[skyvue]

OU fans wanted him gone, right or wrong.

A vocal minority on web boards wanted him gone, but it's always questionable to describe "OU fans" as sharing any given opinion. Also, whatever struggles BV experienced at OU came after years of solid to great defenses. And those struggles coincided with the ascent of great offenses in the Big 12. When those fans were calling for Mike Stoops' return (and some of them were hoping for BV's departure), I reminded them to be careful what they wished for, as Mike would be returning to a very different Big 12 than the one he left. That proved to be an accurate prediction.

That's not to say that BV didn't benefit from his time at Clemson, but he enjoyed success at OU prior to that.

 

[Eielson]

BV was the DC at OU once before and didn't do too well.

False. With the exception of 2008, OU's worst year in defensive scoring during his tenure (2001-2011) was 37, which is on par with our best years since his departure. People grumbled because our national numbers fell due to the Big XII running modern offenses 10-15 years ahead of other conferences like the SEC, but we were always one of the best defenses in the conference. The only way to think Venables' stint at OU was a failure is to not have paid attention after his departure.

 

[61sooner]

If OU could retain the best of the current players and the recruits for next year and replace Moser, would do it in a heartbeat.

 

[MFDChief]

I apologize for my part in this debate. You guys are correct this is a basketball board, there are plenty of places to debate OU Football.

 

[Dr Sleep]

1 Grant Sherfield/Bijan Cortes
2 Milos Uzan/Joe Bamisile
3 Otega Oweh/Kaden Cooper/Jacob Groves
4 Jalen Hill/Jacolb Cole
5 Sam Godwin/Yaya Keita/Luke Northweather

I am anxious to start adding portal players. This team as listed will not be terribly tall with SFs playing PF, however will take talent over height any day, loving FDU in the tourney.

 

[Dr Sleep]

1 Grant Sherfield/Bijan Cortes
2 Milos Uzan/Joe Bamisile
3 Otega Oweh/Kaden Cooper/Jacob Groves
4 Jalen Hill/Jacolb Cole
5 Sam Godwin/Yaya Keita/Luke Northweather

I am anxious to start adding portal players. This team as listed will not be terribly tall with SFs playing PF, however will take talent over height any day, loving FDU in the tourney.

1 Grant Sherfield/{Milos Uzan}
2 Milos Uzan/Joe Bamisile
3 Otega Oweh/Kaden Cooper/Jacob Groves
4 Jalen Hill/Jacolb Cole
5 Sam Godwin/Yaya Keita/Luke Northweather