Next Year's Roster

[TINY]

You should try to pay better attention. Skyvue has consistently been one of the more positive and realistic posters on this board.

Sky has been a pretty negative poster during the Moser era. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but i have to admit that I get a kick out of reading his negative posts followed by his Dr. Peale quote in his sig.

 

[hoopsaustin]

Enough already.

I think hes just listing what the roster would like in this timeframe. I don't think hes being negative

 

[skyvue]

Sky has been a pretty negative poster during the Moser era. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but i have to admit that I get a kick out of reading his negative posts followed by his Dr. Peale quote in his sig.

It's a fair observation, an irony of which I'm aware.

Many of us endured season after season of relentless negativity from certain posters during the later Kruger years, seasons that were measurably better than the past two.

We're down to five players, two of whom totaled a combined three minutes of action last season. It's unprecedented in my lifetime. Well, not entirely unprecedented--we were in a similar boat two years ago but that was during a coaching change--an entirely different situation. And we've had posters blithely dismiss our best players as they departed after playing for Moser, assuring us they'd be easily replaced.

Well, they haven't been replaced. And now we're seeing an exodus that, as I said, is unprecedented. I honestly don't know how anyone can be positive right now, but my hat's off to those who can.

I resolved this morning not to post for a couple of days. I've had my say and I was going to give it rest a for a bit. I only responded here because my name came up. I was skeptical when Coach Moser was hired; I feared it was too big a jump in competition for him and that he wouldn't be able to adjust his coaching style. So far, I feel my skepticism was warranted, given the fact that we've not seen improvement in the team, his results in working the portal have been underwhelming, and his in-game coaching is often baffling. If he pulls off a miracle turnaround, no one will be happier than me and I'll happily eat crow.

 

[NYC-Fool]

It's a fair observation, an irony of which I'm aware.

Many of us endured season after season of relentless negativity from certain posters during the later Kruger years, seasons that were measurably better than the past two.

We're down to five players, two of whom totaled a combined three minutes of action last season. It's unprecedented in my lifetime. Well, not entirely unprecedented--we were in a similar boat two years ago but that was during a coaching change--an entirely different situation. And we've had posters blithely dismiss our best players as they departed after playing for Moser, assuring us they'd be easily replaced.

Well, they haven't been replaced. And now we're seeing an exodus that, as I said, is unprecedented. I honestly don't know how anyone can be positive right now, but my hat's off to those who can.

I resolved this morning not to post for a couple of days. I've had my say and I was going to give it rest a for a bit. I only responded here because my name came up. I was skeptical when Coach Moser was hired; I feared it was too big a jump in competition for him and that he wouldn't be able to adjust his coaching style. So far, I feel my skepticism was warranted, given the fact that we've not seen improvement in the team, his results in working the portal have been underwhelming, and his in-game coaching is often baffling. If he pulls off a miracle turnaround, no one will be happier than me and I'll happily eat crow.

All fair points. And if the landscape for college hoops hadn’t completely changed, I would be very concerned too. But full roster turnover is now a new norm, which I think offers opportunities (see KSU, etc) to sharply change a roster for the better. I agree that it also offers extra risk and volatility from year to year, but it can also be exciting if Moser can crack the code on recruiting transfers. This time should be fun.

 

[WichitaSooner]

All fair points. And if the landscape for college hoops hadn’t completely changed, I would be very concerned too. But full roster turnover is now a new norm, which I think offers opportunities (see KSU, etc) to sharply change a roster for the better. I agree that it also offers extra risk and volatility from year to year, but it can also be exciting if Moser can crack the code on recruiting transfers. This time should be fun.

And if we were a KSU or KU board, etc., it WOULD be fun. I saw Self's end-of-season presser yesterday and you can tell how excited he is -- said that all the transfers give them a chance to bring in two or three of the best portal players in the country, and I'm sure he will do just that. But since the portal has not been kind to Moser, and is absolutely not his preferred way of building a team, it's hard to view it as fun as Sooner fans. And I say this as someone who was legitimately excited last offseason. I thought that the additions of Grant and Bam would make us significantly better.

 

[skyvue]

All fair points. And if the landscape for college hoops hadn’t completely changed, I would be very concerned too. But full roster turnover is now a new norm, which I think offers opportunities (see KSU, etc) to sharply change a roster for the better. I agree that it also offers extra risk and volatility from year to year, but it can also be exciting if Moser can crack the code on recruiting transfers. This time should be fun.

I don't disagree, but he has to make a major leap in portal success over his first two cycles. Tang's success has been referenced at times to shine a light on Moser's portal whiffs, but Tang's success at KSU was dismissed by others as an outlier, a result we can't reasonably expect for the Sooners.

What has happened in the previous two cycles is that we all (me included) got excited about our incoming transfers, and most of them came up short of expectations (I might argue all of them fell short, but no need to put a finer point on it). Even now we're being assured that the PG from Siena is a difference maker, and if we sign him, I sincerely hope he is. But his numbers so far don't really suggest that he is (they're solid, but at a level of competition several rungs below the Big 12). So regardless of who we sign, I'm keeping a giant grain of salt at the ready until at least January--because we as fans have been burned two years in a row by portal hype.

 

[NorthCarolinaSooner]

And if we were a KSU or KU board, etc., it WOULD be fun. I saw Self's end-of-season presser yesterday and you can tell how excited he is -- said that all the transfers give them a chance to bring in two or three of the best portal players in the country, and I'm sure he will do just that. But since the portal has not been kind to Moser, and is absolutely not his preferred way of building a team, it's hard to view it as fun as Sooner fans. And I say this as someone who was legitimately excited last offseason. I thought that the additions of Grant and Bam would make us significantly better.

Dude, Grant was a starter and our leading scorer so it wasn't a miss.
Bam was a miss
Groves was a 2 year starter....could have been better but wasn't a true miss
Gibson and Goldwire the year before were starters and Chargois gave us some quality minutes....so your assessment of the portal and Moser is skewed by your hate for Moser.......scale back your misery just a tad.

He hasn't brought in All Americans in the portal but he has brought in contributors......I'll reserve judgement a little to see how this group is. The HS recruiting has been pretty good.....if those guys develop over time I'll be pleased.

I just think you are way over-analyzing

 

[thebigabd]

Grant Sherfield
Jacob Groves
Tanner Groves
Jalen Hill
Bijan
Joe Bam
CJ Noland
Benny Schroder

So far this years squad has lost 55.3 points per game and 23.4 rebounds per game. Including the top 3 scorers and rebounders, and a lot of experience.

Be very curious to see what Porter does in the portal, because he has very serious holes to fill.... I know that is stating the obvious, but damn.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Dude, Grant was a starter and our leading scorer so it wasn't a miss.
Bam was a miss
Groves was a 2 year starter....could have been better but wasn't a true miss
Gibson and Goldwire the year before were starters and Chargois gave us some quality minutes....so your assessment of the portal and Moser is skewed by your hate for Moser.......scale back your misery just a tad.

He hasn't brought in All Americans in the portal but he has brought in contributors......I'll reserve judgement a little to see how this group is. The HS recruiting has been pretty good.....if those guys develop over time I'll be pleased.

I just think you are way over-analyzing

This season's team was built entirely from the portal other than Hill and the freshmen, and only one of the freshmen played consistent minutes all season. The team went 15-17 and was the worst team in its league. So while you can point out that guys like Tanner (and Goldwire the year before) started, and others were in the rotation, that's only because someone has to play. Grant was a hit. Bam was a massive miss. Jacob was a miss. Tanner started only because we lacked better options. Same with Goldwire. Add it all up, and his portal track record isn't good.

 

[TEvans4Three]

Team | Starters Leaving | Seniors on Roster w/ mins | Portal Entries | Total Players Gone

Baylor --------| 3 | 4 | 3 | 6
Iowa St-------| 4 | 8 | 2 | 6
Kansas--------| 2 | 1 | 6 | 7
Kansas St-----| 4 | 5 | 1 | 5
Oklahoma-----| 3 | 3 | 5 | 7
Oklahoma St--| 2 | 5 | 1 | 5
TCU------------| 3 | 3 | 4 | 7
Texas----------| 4 | 6 | 0 | 6
Texas Tech----| 3 | 3 | 5 | 7
West Virginia--| 5 | 6 | 1 | 7

Just in case anyone thinks this is actually just an Oklahoma problem.
*Caveat that I am not counting those with COVID years, bc I dont have the bandwidth to do that

 

[Eielson]

Grant Sherfield
Jacob Groves
Tanner Groves
Jalen Hill
Bijan
Joe Bam
CJ Noland
Benny Schroder

So far this years squad has lost 55.3 points per game and 23.4 rebounds per game. Including the top 3 scorers and rebounders, and a lot of experience.

Be very curious to see what Porter does in the portal, because he has very serious holes to fill.... I know that is stating the obvious, but damn.

I want Hill and Sherfield.
Would happily take Bijan.
Would not want the rest back. Could consider Tanner, but I think the open minutes will help our portal cause.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Team | Starters Leaving | Seniors on Roster w/ mins | Portal Entries | Total Players Gone

Baylor --------| 3 | 4 | 3 | 6
Iowa St-------| 4 | 8 | 2 | 6
Kansas--------| 2 | 1 | 6 | 7
Kansas St-----| 4 | 5 | 1 | 5
Oklahoma-----| 3 | 3 | 5 | 7
Oklahoma St--| 2 | 5 | 1 | 5
TCU------------| 3 | 3 | 4 | 7
Texas----------| 4 | 6 | 0 | 6
Texas Tech----| 3 | 3 | 5 | 7
West Virginia--| 5 | 6 | 1 | 7

Just in case anyone thinks this is actually just an Oklahoma problem.
*Caveat that I am not counting those with COVID years, bc I dont have the bandwidth to do that

The issue isn't just the raw numbers. It's who is leaving and who is brought in to replace them.

 

[TEvans4Three]

The issue isn't just the raw numbers. It's who is leaving and who is brought in to replace them.

Thank you for that great insight.

So, to you, Oklahoma is a special case and other Big12 teams are not going through losing players like OU? Your post is rather vague in its disagreement, which is a safe call.

Texas Tech, TCU are very much in the same boat.

 

[Soonerb98]

One point I would add us that we're turning over almost the whole roster 3 years in a row. There will always be other teams with turnover too, but it hasn't been the same teams tied with us for most departures every year, right?

Next, one has to keep in mind that the contributors were contributing to more losses than wins. For example, GS was our leading scorer, but last time I looked he shot at or below 30% from the field more often than not in conference play. And scoring was his only strength, really. If that is our portal "hit" It's a little scary to think we're going to rebuild in hhe portal every year.

 

[TINY]

It's a fair observation, an irony of which I'm aware.

Many of us endured season after season of relentless negativity from certain posters during the later Kruger years, seasons that were measurably better than the past two.

We're down to five players, two of whom totaled a combined three minutes of action last season. It's unprecedented in my lifetime. Well, not entirely unprecedented--we were in a similar boat two years ago but that was during a coaching change--an entirely different situation. And we've had posters blithely dismiss our best players as they departed after playing for Moser, assuring us they'd be easily replaced.

Well, they haven't been replaced. And now we're seeing an exodus that, as I said, is unprecedented. I honestly don't know how anyone can be positive right now, but my hat's off to those who can.

I resolved this morning not to post for a couple of days. I've had my say and I was going to give it rest a for a bit. I only responded here because my name came up. I was skeptical when Coach Moser was hired; I feared it was too big a jump in competition for him and that he wouldn't be able to adjust his coaching style. So far, I feel my skepticism was warranted, given the fact that we've not seen improvement in the team, his results in working the portal have been underwhelming, and his in-game coaching is often baffling. If he pulls off a miracle turnaround, no one will be happier than me and I'll happily eat crow.

You’re a real one, Sky. I know you just want the program to succeed (similar to Wichita). I was right there with you, Wichita, Coach, Boulder, Ada, et al defending Lon for the most part, too. We don’t agree on the situation currently and that’s fine. I believe the last 2 years are more a reflection in how far the program is behind the top 25 programs in the country. It was apparent during Lon last 5 or so years when he couldn’t get recruits over teams they used to never struggle to out recruit (tech, baylor, A&M, osu, etc.)The free transfer rules/NIL only further exacerbated it imo.

Hoping we have better NIL this offseason to grab some of these studs in the portal. Time will tell.

 

[NorthCarolinaSooner]

This season's team was built entirely from the portal other than Hill and the freshmen, and only one of the freshmen played consistent minutes all season. The team went 15-17 and was the worst team in its league. So while you can point out that guys like Tanner (and Goldwire the year before) started, and others were in the rotation, that's only because someone has to play. Grant was a hit. Bam was a massive miss. Jacob was a miss. Tanner started only because we lacked better options. Same with Goldwire. Add it all up, and his portal track record isn't good.

Tanner was a "miss" that probably half the NCAA would have taken...and JG was a package with his brother....and Tanner wasn't a miss he just wasn't as good as we'd like him to be. Bam was surely a miss...I'll agree there.

So now, you are counting Oweh as a miss because he didn't start the whole year?

We really only has 1 guy who was a really massive miss in the portal (Bam) ......there were a couple of "meh" types too...but it isn't as bad as you are trying to let on. Do we want better? absolutely. We'll see if we get it

 

[WichitaSooner]

Thank you for that great insight.

So, to you, Oklahoma is a special case and other Big12 teams are not going through losing players like OU? Your post is rather vague in its disagreement, which is a safe call.

Texas Tech, TCU are very much in the same boat.

Ok, you want specifics? KU is losing guys who weren't good enough to play for them but will likely get heavy minutes other places. Self will replace them with better players. KSU is losing one guy who they probably want to keep, and it's because he likely wants to move back to the east coast. Baylor is losing one really good player who I am sure they would like to keep. But both Tang and Drew have shown they know how to bring in studs, not just Tanner Groves and Jordan Goldwire. Tech is going through a coaching change.

Unlike some people, it doesn't bother me a ton that there is a lot of roster turnover in the portal age. What bothers me is that OU (read: Moser) hasn't put enough quality basketball players on its roster the past couple years because we haven't done a good job in the portal.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Tanner was a "miss" that probably half the NCAA would have taken...and JG was a package with his brother....and Tanner wasn't a miss he just wasn't as good as we'd like him to be. Bam was surely a miss...I'll agree there.

So now, you are counting Oweh as a miss because he didn't start the whole year?

We really only has 1 guy who was a really massive miss in the portal (Bam) ......there were a couple of "meh" types too...but it isn't as bad as you are trying to let on. Do we want better? absolutely. We'll see if we get it

Half the NCAA means approximately 160 schools wouldn't want him. I'd probably say that's about right. And he is a miss when Porter not only brought him in, but clearly viewed him as a key cog in the program he is trying to build.

 

[Dr Sleep]

Lol - Will Yaya even play basketball next year?

He can't seem to stay healthy but his last injury was Feb. 2022.

 

[WTSooner]

I want Hill and Sherfield.
Would happily take Bijan..

Individually, I don't really disagree. But that is pretty much the same team that just finished where we finished. I don't really see a way for that roster to do much better next year, thus I think we need to find some new players and hope they fit better.