Next Year's Roster

hoopsaustin said:
I think that jalen could be argued to be the more talented player, but OU has no viable 5 right now and i think that makes Groves def more valuable to OU, plus he has better stats..

And if given the choice, id take another year of Groves in the bag vs. Risking getting a new unknown 5. You could sway me if Collins was pretty well q sure thing and if he wouldnt come if groves were back..

Im just terrified rn until we get a 5 in the bag..
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If Tanner was actually playing like a legit 5 himself consistently, I could agree with this. But Godwin actually outplayed him in many games this season. If you remove Hill from our roster this year . . . man, I have no idea who would be able to replace him. 32 minutes of great defense, good rebounding, and some timely offensive contributions. Moser clearly loves Tanner, which makes it all the more telling that he only played 25 minutes per game. And while a lot of that was foul trouble, Tanner has no one but himself to blame for that. If he had another year left, there would be no reason to expect him to suddenly stay out of foul trouble.

I agree 100% on the need for a good 5. If we don't land one, I don't think we have any chance at being a tourney team. And I am not sold that Collins would be the answer after two years of next to nothing at UK. I realize he has a stud in front of him, but he barely gets on the court.
 
Hill is a good, versatile player who has a fairly defined role on this team. If Hill were to stay, he is a stop-gap that would prevent Moser from having to go out and get another portal guy. Based on recent history, I don't really trust PM in the portal, so I would prefer that Hill stay for that reason alone. But it sounds as if he is gone. PM's butt is on a pretty warm seat as far as I'm concerned, so he had better pull all of the right levers this offseason. I'm sick of mediocre-ass basketball.
 
BoulderSooner said:
advanced stats say Groves is the better player ..

including on Defense



OU's results with Groves on / off the court says the same
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Win shares is a pretty big advanced stat & Hill is better. Sure if you do per possession then Groves might have better stats, but he can't stay on the floor.

If you think Groves is better on defense then there's no point in continuing the discussion.

I always try to look at guys and how they would help a really good team in deciding who is a more valuable player. Because even terrible teams have to have a best player, Calixte averaged 20ppg before he came to OU. Hill helps good teams more than Tanner.
 
BCSooners said:
Hill helps good teams more than Tanner.
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That's about how I see it. Tanner is probably better at an average mid-major program, but Hill would be a better contributor to Sweet 16 program. I wouldn't expect either to see the floor on a title contender.
 
Eielson said:
That's about how I see it. Tanner is probably better at an average mid-major program, but Hill would be a better contributor to Sweet 16 program. I wouldn't expect either to see the floor on a title contender.
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Oh I think Jalen could absolutely play on any team in the country. He would be in KU's rotation this year without question, and would be a great fit for Houston. He isn't a great scorer, but does everything else well. And on a team with a better roster around him, he wouldn't be forced to play out of position as often.

Even title contenders have guys in the rotation who aren't scorers. Not every guy's role is to score 15+.
 
Eielson said:
That's about how I see it. Tanner is probably better at an average mid-major program, but Hill would be a better contributor to Sweet 16 program. I wouldn't expect either to see the floor on a title contender.
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I think both could be the 6-8th guy on a title contender. Hill I think could start on a few top 10 teams.
 
hoopsaustin said:
Im just terrified rn until we get a 5 in the bag..
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Is the same not true of the 4 position if both Jacob and Hill leave?

I have hopes that one of Cooper/Cole can grow into a 4 in the mold of Hill, but I don't think either can play the 4 next year.

If those folks all leave, I think you have to look for a starting 4, a starting 5, and a guard/wing capable of starting or being the first guard/wing off the bench.

That is A LOT to pull from the Portal in one offseason.
 
I agree with everyone on one point or another. Hill is a good player that would help next year, but it's not the end of the world if he doesn't want to play five years at OU. I'm guessing he knows next will probably be another losing season and so he wants $$ to make staying worthwhile. More so than an inflated sense of self.

Hill or no Hill, Moser has not proven himself in the portal. That is the scariest thing. Everyone CAN be replaced. But can this coaching staff get it done? I doubt it.
 
WichitaSooner said:
Oh I think Jalen could absolutely play on any team in the country. He would be in KU's rotation this year without question, and would be a great fit for Houston. He isn't a great scorer, but does everything else well. And on a team with a better roster around him, he wouldn't be forced to play out of position as often.

Even title contenders have guys in the rotation who aren't scorers. Not every guy's role is to score 15+.
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He could maybe be a 5-10 minute guy. I won't pretend to know terribly much about KU's bench this year, but I can't see him cutting into the minutes of guys like Wilson, McCullar, or Adams. In a lot of ways, he seems like a lesser version of McCullar.
 
Hill would be the 6th man at KU right now! He is at worst a 15-20 min guy on pretty much any team in America. He starts and all, but a handful most likely. Good length/defense and is a role guy that every coach wants/needs.

What if we go small next year? Feel like Cooper and Oweh could matchup with most guys ok..

Los/Cortes
Cortes/transfer
Cooper/Transfer/Bam
Oweh/Cole/Groves/Transfer
Transfer/Godwin/Norweather
 
My hope is that Northweather can at least be a rim protector/rebounder with the occasional putback.

Would not be surprised to see Jalen try overseas or UNLV (home). He’s also the type of player would be very effective at a UCLA or Houston.
 
So how many wins do you guys think the following lineup would win next year: Cortes/1, Los/wing, Cooper/wing, Oweh/4, and Godwin or Northweather
 
BCSooners said:
Win shares is a pretty big advanced stat & Hill is better. Sure if you do per possession then Groves might have better stats, but he can't stay on the floor.

If you think Groves is better on defense then there's no point in continuing the discussion.

I always try to look at guys and how they would help a really good team in deciding who is a more valuable player. Because even terrible teams have to have a best player, Calixte averaged 20ppg before he came to OU. Hill helps good teams more than Tanner.
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Hill has a tiny lead in WS 3.2-3.1 but as you said that is a function of more min .. (and Tanner's inability to stay out of foul trouble)

but yeah WS/40 Tanner has a sizeable lead .. .159-.125
 
BoulderSooner said:
Jalen Hill can be in the rotation on almost every team in the country

he is a winning player .. i would expect lots to want him just not at a huge dollar figure ..
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This was my point. I wasn't trying to rail on the kid.

He's a damn good (starting) role player. He's not worth giving a bigger piece of the pie to, IMO, or giving him a salary that elevates him as a star (like Sherfield). Whatever resources OU has at their disposal should be used to compliment the current foundation of OU MBB - Oweh, Uzan, Cooper, & Cole. Build around them. That's not me saying I'd get rid of any others or whatever. The four I listed are who I deem to be the most irreplaceable. Obviously.

Shoot, any money you have to give Hill could be put towards an offer to keep Grant. As unlikely as that is but still, it's worth a try. "Hey Grant, I'm not seeing you on any mocks, how much will it take to return? We now have some extra $$$."

I think we all have our doubts on how effective Moser will be at attaining portal talent but you don't want to start the process by overpaying for a good role player with one year to play. The goal has to be to get better, not to play Mr. Nice Guy. As a fan, it's tough, I can't imagine some of the decisions are fun for Moser/anyone associated with the program. I've been in enough locker rooms to know that you form bonds that you don't want to break/you truly become family (I still talk to so many former teammates). Tough business but this is one of the most critical OU MBB offseasons ever. You have to get it right or try your hardest. I don't see giving Hill a big bag as an important step towards getting better/to the tourney.
 
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cowboysooner said:
So how many wins do you guys think the following lineup would win next year: Cortes/1, Los/wing, Cooper/wing, Oweh/4, and Godwin or Northweather
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not many but Los is the starting point next year ..

cooper and oweh on the wing

Cole at the 4

and a 5

could win the same about of games as OU did this season ..

and has huge upside ..
 
BoulderSooner said:
not many but Los is the starting point next year ..

cooper and oweh on the wing

Cole at the 4

and a 5

could win the same about of games as OU did this season ..

and has huge upside ..
Click to expand...

That would be some lazy Portal recruiting if that is the lineup we start with next season.
 
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